The Garry Schofield Column: Where have all the English halfbacks gone?

[bobbruce]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Schofield backs up what we said last week when you back at multiple players careers. You then go and say look players are rubbish today because that 21 year old isn’t as good as those players all added together. Even the players he said were about in his era cover at least 23 years from 1979 -2002. I won’t include the years Bobby Goulding spent in the lower leagues. 

Just to add his next list of halfbacks covers 30 years from 1989-2019. 

[steve oates]

3 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

From an England view we rely too much on Australian players in SL...............

 

Got to do it though, got to feed the fans the best talent we can. Works for Premier Soccer.........

Superleague is far more important than Internationl RL 

[Dunbar]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Perhaps he does not rate them as highly as you do Dunny. Of those 5 how often has Pryce played in the halves, even his coach sees him in other positions, Smith, Dodd and Trueman in my opinion are not of International quality as yet, Lewis could provide something different and for me at the present time offers  ore than the other 4, but I doubt he will be selected.

It's sport, we all have opinions. Even Mr Schofield is allowed one, but you wouldn't think so.

Of course he is entitled to have an opinion.  I just think he is way over the top in his narrative.

The only young half English half back he mentions in the article is Jack Sinfield and the fact that Leeds are not investing/trusting him while signing Matt Frawley.

And then he moves on to comparing generations and the states that we are not producing talent in the half backs. 

He may not rate Harry Smith, Lewis Dodd, Mikey Lewis, Jake Trueman or Will Pryce.  That’s fine, but to say we are not producing half backs and neglecting the development of half backs is not really an opinion, it is wrong. 

As I say, two of the top three Super League sides this year have a young English 7 and he makes a passing reference to this, without naming them, and then says we are not producing talent.  It just feels intellectually dishonest as an argument.

[Damien]

47 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

He may not be everyone's cup of tea Damien in what he writes, as far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with rose tinted glasses but expierience of being there watching players perform, and yes, in my opinion I would say he is the best International 6 we have produced since I started watching this game and that covers 60 years - from that take away the first 10 years, until I became aware of the complexities, intricacies, subtleties and difficulties in playing the game.

Some will disagree that period includes Millward, Murphy, Holmes, Hanley, Myler(Tony), McGuire, Long, Pryce. etc.

If he was the best international 6 we have produced in 60 years then why was he often picked at centre or on the bench? In many of Schofield's GB games a multitude of other 6's were preferred.

I mean in 1994 Powell was preferred at 6 and even Phil Clarke with Schofield not picked for the first test and on the bench in the last two. There was only the 1990 and 1992 Ashes series where he was first choice 6. When GB lost against France in 1990 he was centre.

I'm not knocking Schofield but the reality of these times was far different than when looking through rose tinted eyes 30+ years later.

[Whippet13]

We would probably produce more quality half backs if it weren't for the modern coaching trend to turn some of them into fullbacks.

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

We would probably produce more quality half backs if it weren't for the modern coaching trend to turn some of them into fullbacks.

This is a good point too. In many ways the full back plays more like an old school 6 in the modern game with split halfs in that they get the ball wider outside whichever half.

[bobbruce]

42 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

We would probably produce more quality half backs if it weren't for the modern coaching trend to turn some of them into fullbacks.

The fullback is playing like an old fashioned 6 so you could actually include them in current lists. 

[JM2010]

5 hours ago, steve oates said:

Got to do it though, got to feed the fans the best talent we can. Works for Premier Soccer.........

Superleague is far more important than Internationl RL 

Best talent??? Most of the SH players clubs are signing are fringe players at best. 

[Angelic Cynic]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

If he was the best international 6 we have produced in 60 years then why was he often picked at centre or on the bench? In many of Schofield's GB games a multitude of other 6's were preferred.

I mean in 1994 Powell was preferred at 6 and even Phil Clarke with Schofield not picked for the first test and on the bench in the last two. There was only the 1990 and 1992 Ashes series where he was first choice 6. When GB lost against France in 1990 he was centre.

I'm not knocking Schofield but the reality of these times was far different than when looking through rose tinted eyes 30+ years later.

In fairness to Schofield he started off and became a very successful centre at Hull,and when they had one of their regular financial 'dips' he and Lee Crooks were sold to Leeds where he played in the halfs - near the end of his career.

He has regularly expressed his opinion that half backs should be improved.He suggested,if memory recalls correctly,that Sean Long should become the specialist coach for specialist half backs.

This was decades ago.Just as other sports teams were recruiting specialist defence and offense coaches,and soccer decided to have specialist goalkeeping coaches.

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Schofield isn't fit to lace Roger Millward's boots, as a player or frankly as a bloke. 

 

As a player I disagree Bronco, just so I can take your opinion serious how much did you see of Roger?

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, bobbruce said:

The fullback is playing like an old fashioned 6 so you could actually include them in current lists. 

I don't ever recall any time a number 6 has stayed well behind the attacking line chiming in to run/distribute the ball Bob, old fashioned number 6's would in the main be first second reciever unless it was forwards 'ball up the jumper' time.

Happy to be corrected.

[daz39]

Do half-backs need to be as good these day though? back in the day the best half backs could unlock defences with footwork, speed and flair, do they need to do that in this age where it's basically 5 big blokes (anyone on the pitch not just forwards) and then a kick either out in touch or to the opposition fullback?

How often does a half-back put a step on, slip through a gap then turn on the speed as opposed to simply throwing the ball to the next man or taking the tackle to allow set up ready for the kick on the 5th?

Different game these days requires different roles.

[bobbruce]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I don't ever recall any time a number 6 has stayed well behind the attacking line chiming in to run/distribute the ball Bob, old fashioned number 6's would in the main be first second reciever unless it was forwards 'ball up the jumper' time.

Happy to be corrected.

Sorry I said that the wrong way round as in a fullback now plays like a modern day 6. 

[Lowdesert]

Schofield didn’t start playing stand off regularly until around 89/90 with other notable stand offs/halves being Edwards, Goulding, Paul bishop, Beardmore (forget which) maybe Neil Holding and Tony Myler.  I think you could class 2 of them as GB quality but still better than what we can muster up today.

 

[bobbruce]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Schofield didn’t start playing stand off regularly until around 89/90 with other notable stand offs/halves being Edwards, Goulding, Paul bishop, Beardmore (forget which) maybe Neil Holding and Tony Myler.  I think you could class 2 of them as GB quality but still better than what we can muster up today.

 

Can we give todays players the chance to have a career in the sport before we right them off. 

[Dunbar]

46 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Do half-backs need to be as good these day though? back in the day the best half backs could unlock defences with footwork, speed and flair, do they need to do that in this age where it's basically 5 big blokes (anyone on the pitch not just forwards) and then a kick either out in touch or to the opposition fullback?

How often does a half-back put a step on, slip through a gap then turn on the speed as opposed to simply throwing the ball to the next man or taking the tackle to allow set up ready for the kick on the 5th?

Different game these days requires different roles.

The game is different today, no doubt. 

And if I am being honest, I do prefer the 80' & 90's for a variety of reasons.

But what we shouldn't forget is that the players today are technically miles ahead of where they were back then due to the coaching they have received from an early age.  This coaching 'may' have taken the ad hoc part of their game away to execute a plan, I accept that, but it doesn't make them poorer.

Andy Gregory is one of my all time favourite players and a world class half back in his day but it's worth remembering he couldn't throw a long pass to his right hand side... an under 17's academy player, in any position, will have mastered that now.

And finally, despite my preference for previous decades, there are still loads of flair plays in the modern game.  And I have to say, particularly in the NRL... anyone who doesn't watch that league is missing out on so much Rugby League entertainment. 

[Lowdesert]

27 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Can we give todays players the chance to have a career in the sport before we right them off. 

Yeah, I agree with that to an extent. Just the gamble that clubs will let them develop - or, stand the pain if they don’t.  
 

edit:  just thinking about it, how many clubs have imports in at half back (so or sh)? I can only think of Saints and Huddersfield who don’t but I could be wrong.  
 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Lowdesert

[Dunbar]

10 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Even the players he said were about in his era cover at least 23 years from 1979 -2002.

 

9 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Just to add his next list of halfbacks covers 30 years from 1989-2019. 

Spot on.

And good news for England as it means the best half back of this era may not even have been born yet.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

As a player I disagree Bronco, just so I can take your opinion serious how much did you see of Roger?

Well I’m not in my mid-70’s so clearly not a lot. Although my family did and their assessment of the two is unequivocal, and I mean from both sides of the river. But either way Roger’s impact on the game in his era is obvious, and the word of the pros of his era in both hemispheres a matter of public record. 

Millward certainly wasn’t occasionally pushed into the centres, and he absolutely did a lot more constructive things for the game after his playing years than write a few grumpy “back in my day” myopic columns. Twice the man Schofield is. 

[meast]

12 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I'd understand it if he'd written this column 10 years ago (in fact he probably did and had it published then n'all ), but at the moment we've got a really bright crop of young(ish) English half-backs. Even just looking at my own club I doubt Wane will even consider Jordan Abdul and Mikey Lewis for England this season for example, and yet they were tearing up the comp until Abdul's annual injury. 

People only really look to Wigan, Saints and Leeds but the 2 you mentioned as well as Russell at Huddersfield are as good as anyone at the moment.

But they probably won't get a look in at international level but someone who comes through at certain clubs will.

That's been an issue as long as I can remember

 

[Whippet13]

1 hour ago, meast said:

People only really look to Wigan, Saints and Leeds but the 2 you mentioned as well as Russell at Huddersfield are as good as anyone at the moment.

But they probably won't get a look in at international level but someone who comes through at certain clubs will.

That's been an issue as long as I can remember

 

This "certain clubs" concept is a complete myth, the England RLWC2021 contained players from 13 clubs, with just a single Leeds player selected. Salford, jointly with Wigan, was the 2nd best represented side with 3 players selected.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Whippet13

[George Watt]

19 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Schofield isn't fit to lace Roger Millward's boots, as a player or frankly as a bloke. 

 

On the playing front would disagree on that and would rank Schofield just ahead of Millward. Loved watching Millward when he had a short stint with Cronulla when I supported them in the 70's. Another I would include with these 2 would be Dave Bolton who I saw winning 2 Challenge Cup finals plus a NRL Premiership in Aus.

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Well I’m not in my mid-70’s so clearly not a lot. Although my family did and their assessment of the two is unequivocal, and I mean from both sides of the river. But either way Roger’s impact on the game in his era is obvious, and the word of the pros of his era in both hemispheres a matter of public record. 

Millward certainly wasn’t occasionally pushed into the centres, and he absolutely did a lot more constructive things for the game after his playing years than write a few grumpy “back in my day” myopic columns. Twice the man Schofield is. 

Your "Roger played for my team" shouts loud and clear Bronco.

Me, well I have no axe to grind I am just taking an independent view on what I witnessed on the field, both great player's but we all have our own views on who we believe was the better, in fact I would say Roger was the best till Garry went to 6 for the national team.

[Lowdesert]

2 hours ago, George Watt said:

On the playing front would disagree on that and would rank Schofield just ahead of Millward. Loved watching Millward when he had a short stint with Cronulla when I supported them in the 70's. Another I would include with these 2 would be Dave Bolton who I saw winning 2 Challenge Cup finals plus a NRL Premiership in Aus.

I would go the opposite way but it’s neither here nor there really.

Schofield was a superb centre and a good stand off.

For England squad I don’t think we we will look much further than Williams, Lomax, Dodd and Smith.

[Click]

I just wanted to say... I am not old enough to have ever even seen Schofield or Millward play RL.