Trinity staying full time

[Eddie]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, haven’t seen it if it has, but this sounds really positive coming from Wakey’s new owners. Certainly with them now, and Toulouse, you could have a solid 14 team SL. 
 

https://www.totalrl.com/wakefield-trinity-to-remain-full-time-in-championship-as-new-owner-aims-for-top-six-super-league-challenge-in-coming-years/?fbclid=IwAR1Qyi0kz892-NgFrDCcjoSQ5JnMJTuXVC7lgdtpYdHvQeAgVXvrKn3czS4

[Trojan Horse]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, haven’t seen it if it has, but this sounds really positive coming from Wakey’s new owners. Certainly with them now, and Toulouse, you could have a solid 14 team SL. 
 

https://www.totalrl.com/wakefield-trinity-to-remain-full-time-in-championship-as-new-owner-aims-for-top-six-super-league-challenge-in-coming-years/?fbclid=IwAR1Qyi0kz892-NgFrDCcjoSQ5JnMJTuXVC7lgdtpYdHvQeAgVXvrKn3czS4

Hugely positive for the sport and Trinity. 
 

The more clubs and owners with investment, ambition and full time will only benefit the sport.

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Trojan Horse said:

Hugely positive for the sport and Trinity. 
 

The more clubs and owners with investment, ambition and full time will only benefit the sport.

But not necessarily benefit the Championship and its part time clubs.

An extraordinary amount of money must have been wasted for full time clubs to walk the Championship and simply yo you between SL and the Championship.

If clubs genuinely have the money and ambition and are full time I think a sensible conversation should be had about extending SL to accommodate such clubs and having the lower leagues strictly part time.

[RBKnight]

Given the amount it will cost the new Trinity owner to fund a full-time squad on Championship income (and fund a four year deal for Darryl Powell as coach) it just seems such a waste that this sort of investment couldn't have been made whilst Trin were in Super League.

 

[sentoffagain2]

       Without promotion it would appear to be a waste of money.But have they heard that SL will be expanded to 14 teams in the next couple of years.Being full time would help them if that is the case.SL will go to 14 teams it's just a matter of when.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

But not necessarily benefit the Championship and its part time clubs.

An extraordinary amount of money must have been wasted for full time clubs to walk the Championship and simply yo you between SL and the Championship.

If clubs genuinely have the money and ambition and are full time I think a sensible conversation should be had about extending SL to accommodate such clubs and having the lower leagues strictly part time.

How do you get round the funding problem?

Not to long ago your then owner suggested that SL clubs earned the money from the TV contract and SL clubs alone should be the only beneficiaries, I didn't see many retractions from other SL clubs going against him.

So now we have a reduced contract value from then, I doubt that SL clubs would want what is now available to be shared out by 14 clubs not 12, 

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

Given the amount it will cost the new Trinity owner to fund a full-time squad on Championship income (and fund a four year deal for Darryl Powell as coach) it just seems such a waste that this sort of investment couldn't have been made whilst Trin were in Super League.

 

Sometimes going down and consolidating can be a good thing, breathing life into a club rather than being perennial bottom feeders which certainly doesn’t. 

[Barley Mow]

56 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

       Without promotion it would appear to be a waste of money.But have they heard that SL will be expanded to 14 teams in the next couple of years.Being full time would help them if that is the case.SL will go to 14 teams it's just a matter of when.

I don't think it is a waste of money.

With having had the last two years in Super League, Wakefield will almost certainly currently be in the top 12 clubs in terms of attendance, finance, social media engagement and on field performance for the IMG gradings. Their stadium does/will meet the top IMG grade requirements. The only negative they seem to have is their catchment area - which one of their main competitors (Featherstone) share.

With the grade calculated over three years, on field performance is therefore likely to be pretty important for them next year (and a winning team is also likely to have better attendance, finance and social media engagement).

The clubs they are likely to be competing with for the 12th graded SL place in 2025 are Featherstone and Toulouse. If Fev go up this year, it seems likely that Wakefield (with the advantages of two years out of three in SL to Fev's one) will replace them in 2025 - a good year on field in the championship will help this. If Toulouse go up this year (having already had a year in SL) who gets that place in 2025 is likely to be closer and staying full-time and winning the championship (along with better attendance, etc) could tip the balance.

Once those 2025 SL places are confirmed, it is going to take something pretty drastic for there to be any promotion/relegation going forward. Next year could be vital in deciding the 12th club long term - Trinity are in the box seat, but (particularly if Toulouse were promoted this year) next year could be critical for the club's long term future and being full-time will help them a large amount.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Barley Mow

[RBKnight]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Sometimes going down and consolidating can be a good thing, breathing life into a club rather than being perennial bottom feeders which certainly doesn’t. 

I don't necessarily disagree with your point, but it's a hell of an expensive way to do it. Trinity probably wouldn't have been "perennial bottom feeders" if the big loss that the new owner is likely to incur next season (cf Leigh's £1M spend in their Championship winning season, or even the amounts quoted in the "Toulouse in Trouble" thread) had been spent this year in Super League.

It will also need to be well managed (Widnes and Bradford!)  

[The Blues Ox]

Seems a waste of money, presuming Fev go up this season Wakey could likely walk the league with part time players and half the spend thereby been able to spend money elsewhere that could really make a difference to them regaining that 12th place. I guess we are all presuming that Cas don't fail miserably on criteria which you never know and we won't have an idea until the mocks are out. I literally can't wait for the fall out when they do come out and could be the most exciting thing about next season so hopefully Sky Sports make a big deal about it and it can pull in as many viewers as the relegation battles did.

Edited September 28, 2023 by The Blues Ox

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

3 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

       Without promotion it would appear to be a waste of money.But have they heard that SL will be expanded to 14 teams in the next couple of years.Being full time would help them if that is the case.SL will go to 14 teams it's just a matter of when.

Looking at the IMG criteria I’d be confident of top 12,score.

Up the Trin 

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

3 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

I don't think it is a waste of money.

With having had the last two years in Super League, Wakefield will almost certainly currently be in the top 12 clubs in terms of attendance, finance, social media engagement and on field performance for the IMG gradings. Their stadium does/will meet the top IMG grade requirements. The only negative they seem to have is their catchment area - which one of their main competitors (Featherstone) share.

With the grade calculated over three years, on field performance is therefore likely to be pretty important for them next year (and a winning team is also likely to have better attendance, finance and social media engagement).

The clubs they are likely to be competing with for the 12th graded SL place in 2025 are Featherstone and Toulouse. If Fev go up this year, it seems likely that Wakefield (with the advantages of two years out of three in SL to Fev's one) will replace them in 2025 - a good year on field in the championship will help this. If Toulouse go up this year (having already had a year in SL) who gets that place in 2025 is likely to be closer and staying full-time and winning the championship (along with better attendance, etc) could tip the balance.

Once those 2025 SL places are confirmed, it is going to take something pretty drastic for there to be any promotion/relegation going forward. Next year could be vital in deciding the 12th club long term - Trinity are in the box seat, but (particularly if Toulouse were promoted this year) next year could be critical for the club's long term future and being full-time will help them a large amount.

Totally agree

 

[sam4731]

I'm guessing that's because of a substantial parachute payment though.

[Barley Mow]

8 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Seems a waste of money, presuming Fev go up this season Wakey could likely walk the league with part time players and half the spend thereby been able to spend money elsewhere that could really make a difference to them regaining that 12th place. I guess we are all presuming that Cas don't fail miserably on criteria which you never know and we won't have an idea until the mocks are out. I literally can't wait for the fall out when they do come out and could be the most exciting thing about next season so hopefully Sky Sports make a big deal about it and it can pull in as many viewers as the relegation battles did.

If they don't make the 2025 graded Super League, they could be effectively locked out for the foreseeable future. I would look at it as being a matter of doing absolutely everything possible in the next year to ensure making the 12. Even if they do end up making it quite easily, it wouldn't be worth the risk of missing out for the sake of one year going part time.

[sentoffagain2]

    It is the ideal opportunity to bring in young players on good part time contracts.Of course you could have half a dozen older experienced players on full time contracts.What is the point in developing young players and giving them full time contracts of £25k to £35k.Too much pressure when they are doing it for a living.Let them enjoy playing the game.

[Barley Mow]

16 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

    It is the ideal opportunity to bring in young players on good part time contracts.Of course you could have half a dozen older experienced players on full time contracts.What is the point in developing young players and giving them full time contracts of £25k to £35k.Too much pressure when they are doing it for a living.Let them enjoy playing the game.

Do you think that this is something that the academy players would welcome?

I would have thought that most will be looking for a full time career in rugby league. I would expect that once it became clear that Trinity were offering part time contracts to those leaving their academy, lads would stop signing there and try to find another academy where they might be offered full time employment at the end.

[Click]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

I'm guessing that's because of a substantial parachute payment though.

I don't think there has been any parachute payments for quite a number of years now?

I seem to have some memory of London being either the last to receive it when relegated, or were the first to not receive it after being relegated.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

5 hours ago, RBKnight said:

Given the amount it will cost the new Trinity owner to fund a full-time squad on Championship income (and fund a four year deal for Darryl Powell as coach) it just seems such a waste that this sort of investment couldn't have been made whilst Trin were in Super League.

 

The new owner only became aware of the take over opportunity when Michael Carter publicised that he was calling it a day this season.  

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

I'm guessing that's because of a substantial parachute payment though.

There are no substantial parachute payments for the relegated side.

[RBKnight]

3 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

The new owner only became aware of the take over opportunity when Michael Carter publicised that he was calling it a day this season.  

There are no substantial parachute payments for the relegated side.

Not attaching any blame to the new owner on this at all. It just seems such a shame that what looks on paper like a substantial investor into our game (and let's face it, we're not flush with them) will see his initial investment disappearing into the black hole that is trying to run a full-time operation in the Championship.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

18 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

Not attaching any blame to the new owner on this at all. It just seems such a shame that what looks on paper like a substantial investor into our game (and let's face it, we're not flush with them) will see his initial investment disappearing into the black hole that is trying to run a full-time operation in the Championship.

I hate seeing the word investment used over and over again in RL.  Disappearing into a black hole, as you put it, is more like it.  

The guy has been a fan for the majority of our SL tenure and wants to now put some more of his hard earned, above what he's already contributed, into the club.  With IMG ratings coming in next year I don't really see much difference between him financing the club next year as opposed to this. Once again from June onwards we were behind everyone else for recruitment of SL standard players and set for the usual loss of our ever diminishing best talent.   2024 was going to be another toil at the foot of the table stuck with contracted deadwood and new but typical desperation signings.  Lets see how we go with a reset in the Championship under ME ownership.

Had he arrived four or five years ago things could have been much different.

[The Blues Ox]

2 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

If they don't make the 2025 graded Super League, they could be effectively locked out for the foreseeable future. I would look at it as being a matter of doing absolutely everything possible in the next year to ensure making the 12. Even if they do end up making it quite easily, it wouldn't be worth the risk of missing out for the sake of one year going part time.

I agree regarding 2025 onwards but with that said it makes sense to spend less on playing squad and more on things that hold more weight when it comes to the gradings and league placings is pretty low.

[Barley Mow]

5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I agree regarding 2025 onwards but with that said it makes sense to spend less on playing squad and more on things that hold more weight when it comes to the gradings and league placings is pretty low.

If they can identify areas where they can make bigger increases in their points total, then those perhaps should be given priority. As I see it:

 

Fandom - The best way to increase fan numbers and engagement is to have a winning team, staying full time gives them the best chance of that.

Performance - Best supported by being full time.

Finances - The new facilities are designed to maximise this (revenue diversification/sustainability), I'm not sure what could be gained by diverting funds from the team.

Stadium - Next year will achieve the top score.

Catchment - Cannot be improved.

 

Other than improving their social media reach, I'm not sure where money could be spent to try to improve the score other than on the team.

By the sounds of it, the new owner is also willing to put funds into other areas of the club alongside staying full time. It doesn't seem to be an either/or situation.

[dboy]

2 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

If they can identify areas where they can make bigger increases in their points total, then those perhaps should be given priority. As I see it:

 

Fandom - The best way to increase fan numbers and engagement is to have a winning team, staying full time gives them the best chance of that.

Performance - Best supported by being full time.

Finances - The new facilities are designed to maximise this (revenue diversification/sustainability), I'm not sure what could be gained by diverting funds from the team.

Stadium - Next year will achieve the top score.

Catchment - Cannot be improved.

 

Other than improving their social media reach, I'm not sure where money could be spent to try to improve the score other than on the team.

By the sounds of it, the new owner is also willing to put funds into other areas of the club alongside staying full time. It doesn't seem to be an either/or situation.

Nailed it.

 

[GUBRATS]

9 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

I don't think it is a waste of money.

With having had the last two years in Super League, Wakefield will almost certainly currently be in the top 12 clubs in terms of attendance, finance, social media engagement and on field performance for the IMG gradings. Their stadium does/will meet the top IMG grade requirements. The only negative they seem to have is their catchment area - which one of their main competitors (Featherstone) share.

With the grade calculated over three years, on field performance is therefore likely to be pretty important for them next year (and a winning team is also likely to have better attendance, finance and social media engagement).

The clubs they are likely to be competing with for the 12th graded SL place in 2025 are Featherstone and Toulouse. If Fev go up this year, it seems likely that Wakefield (with the advantages of two years out of three in SL to Fev's one) will replace them in 2025 - a good year on field in the championship will help this. If Toulouse go up this year (having already had a year in SL) who gets that place in 2025 is likely to be closer and staying full-time and winning the championship (along with better attendance, etc) could tip the balance.

Once those 2025 SL places are confirmed, it is going to take something pretty drastic for there to be any promotion/relegation going forward. Next year could be vital in deciding the 12th club long term - Trinity are in the box seat, but (particularly if Toulouse were promoted this year) next year could be critical for the club's long term future and being full-time will help them a large amount.

You've given me a headache 

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Seems a waste of money, presuming Fev go up this season Wakey could likely walk the league with part time players and half the spend thereby been able to spend money elsewhere that could really make a difference to them regaining that 12th place. I guess we are all presuming that Cas don't fail miserably on criteria which you never know and we won't have an idea until the mocks are out. I literally can't wait for the fall out when they do come out and could be the most exciting thing about next season so hopefully Sky Sports make a big deal about it and it can pull in as many viewers as the relegation battles did.

It's all BLX oxy