Newcastle Thunder

[Barley Mow]

15 hours ago, NERugbyDad said:

Hearing that there are people involved with the club fighting to salvage something, the pulling out of 2024 part of the statement yesterday could be significant

That's really good to hear, I was hoping there could be some form of resurrection.

Please do keep us updated if you hear more.

I'm sure many on here would be happy to support this if there is something we can do, I certainly would.

[The Masked Poster]

4 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

That's really good to hear, I was hoping there could be some form of resurrection.

Please do keep us updated if you hear more.

I'm sure many on here would be happy to support this if there is something we can do, I certainly would.

Surely it would be a Re-Resurrection? They've already come back after Gateshead were given the elbow. 

[Rovers13]

38 minutes ago, Colin James said:

Seems like the L1 teams are in agreement and all want to be put into the Championship. There seems quite a bit of bitterness that they hadn't already been given that before Newcastle went.

Of course they are though swinton don’t want to go down and the L1 for majority of them want crowds, it’s not a dig etc at these clubs it’s a more of anyone would release a statement for a better life. 

[Derwent]

49 minutes ago, Colin James said:

Seems like the L1 teams are in agreement and all want to be put into the Championship. There seems quite a bit of bitterness that they hadn't already been given that before Newcastle went.

It’s not about being put into the Championship, it’s about having a structure that provides financial sustainability and interest for fans. It’s not as if the L1 clubs are asking for more money from the other clubs.

If the current situation continues then some of those Championship clubs are being extremely shortsighted because in 2025 it could be them who are in the 8 team league. It only takes one bad season.

[Rovers13]

10 minutes ago, Derwent said:

It’s not about being put into the Championship, it’s about having a structure that provides financial sustainability and interest for fans. It’s not as if the L1 clubs are asking for more money from the other clubs.

If the current situation continues then some of those Championship clubs are being extremely shortsighted because in 2025 it could be them who are in the 8 team league. It only takes one bad season.

What I’d be more worried about as a L1 club is their isn’t another championship meeting scheduled as far as I’m aware, so have champ clubs said don’t bother holding one we’ve made our minds up, because surely the RFL, IMG have had some contact if not why not?. 

[Barley Mow]

31 minutes ago, Derwent said:

It’s not about being put into the Championship, it’s about having a structure that provides financial sustainability and interest for fans. It’s not as if the L1 clubs are asking for more money from the other clubs.

If the current situation continues then some of those Championship clubs are being extremely shortsighted because in 2025 it could be them who are in the 8 team league. It only takes one bad season.

Swinton's statement doesn't seem to consider this - going into the last round of fixtures this year they still looked like going down. Are they really that confident they won't get relegated to the 8 team division next year.

The bottom of the championship was so close this year - Haven and Barrow could easily have been in the bottom two as well - with six weeks to go York were even looking over their shoulders.

About half of the Championship teams have been in L1 in the last few years or so - why don't they think "it could be us again soon" and act accordingly. It's so short sighted.

[wiganermike]

10 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Swinton's statement doesn't seem to consider this - going into the last round of fixtures this year they still looked like going down. Are they really that confident they won't get relegated to the 8 team division next year.

The bottom of the championship was so close this year - Haven and Barrow could easily have been in the bottom two as well - with six weeks to go York were even looking over their shoulders.

About half of the Championship teams have been in L1 in the last few years or so - why don't they think "it could be us again soon" and act accordingly. It's so short sighted.

Clubs at all levels will always vote based on self interest, that's why the RFL need to just tell them that the two divisions will merge for 2024 rather than allowing them a vote on whether or not they will (we already know they would vote against it as they did after Skolars withdrew). They can be reorganised into two again after a single season but for the sake of the 8 clubs left in League 1 a single division for 2024 has to happen.

[Barley Mow]

13 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Clubs at all levels will always vote based on self interest, that's why the RFL need to just tell them that the two divisions will merge for 2024 rather than allowing them a vote on whether or not they will (we already know they would vote against it as they did after Skolars withdrew). They can be reorganised into two again after a single season but for the sake of the 8 clubs left in League 1 a single division for 2024 has to happen.

The RFL is effectively a members club with the pro-clubs all being full members. The RFL can't 'just tell' the clubs, the clubs are the RFL.

My point was that based on how close it was at the bottom of the championship this year, there are at least five clubs at serious risk of relegation. I can understand short sighted protection of your own interests - but to only think of the coming season and not even of what your situation might be in 1 year from now is beyond short sighted.

[Tommygilf]

From what I've heard, a merger of the two lower divisions was proposed at the last meeting. 

Championship clubs said no then, essentially because they want guaranteed home fixtures against the likes of Bradford etc which a single league with a draw to manage fixture numbers wouldn't guarantee. They also expressed concerns about travel to Cornwall etc, the RFL currently offer some financial support for travel to Toulouse, but this wouldn't be forthcoming for matches in the far south west.

My argument against that latter point is that if that is such an issue, your club shouldn't be in a national based league and should seek to enter/form a lower level regional competition.

[Bamboozle]

17 hours ago, NERugbyDad said:

Hearing that there are people involved with the club fighting to salvage something, the pulling out of 2024 part of the statement yesterday could be significant

That’s good to hear.

If anything comes out of it I hope they keep the “Newcastle” name and not revert back to Gateshead or even Tyneside.

[ChristianB]

1 hour ago, Derwent said:

 

If the current situation continues then some of those Championship clubs are being extremely shortsighted because in 2025 it could be them who are in the 8 team league. It only takes one bad season.

This. 100%. The lack of self-awareness is troubling.

 

16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They also expressed concerns about travel to Cornwall etc, the RFL currently offer some financial support for travel to Toulouse, but this wouldn't be forthcoming for matches in the far south west.

Cornwall are up & down the M5/M6 every fortnight without so much as a grumble. A single trip down to the other end of a modestly-sized country should not be an existential threat to club finances.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, ChristianB said:

Cornwall are up & down the M5/M6 every fortnight without so much as a grumble. A single trip down to the other end of a modestly-sized country should not be an existential threat to club finances.

I agree, but equally they knew what they were signing up for.

Because of the unique history of RL, we've ended up with a pretty regional league being morphed into a national one. I think its not unreasonable to expect that there are going to be people upset at that new reality.

[Blind side johnny]

19 hours ago, Griff said:

It's a fair point, Johnny.

If IMG keep making recommendations and they keep getting rejected by the RFL, they'll be off.

But I don't think we're at that stage yet.  IMG have gathered information, they've made recommendations, they've been accepted (we don't know if there's been compromise along the way), they've yet to be implemented, we don't know the outcome.

It is, and I didn't say anything different. What I did say is that I have no insight into the contracts between IMG and RFL nor how they might "walk away".

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

The first statement on this I've seen from a club outside L1, Swinton:

https://swintonlionsrlfc.co.uk/news/board-statement-2/

I like this bit:

"Looking back over the past three years, as a Board we feel justified in claiming that on every single occasion when we have had to make a major strategic decision, we have been proven right. And the pressure is certainly greater when you’re in the position of having to make those decisions in the first place, rather than being sat on the outside offering keyboard advice, criticism, or abuse."

[Roughyed Rats]

6 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

I like this bit:

"Looking back over the past three years, as a Board we feel justified in claiming that on every single occasion when we have had to make a major strategic decision, we have been proven right. And the pressure is certainly greater when you’re in the position of having to make those decisions in the first place, rather than being sat on the outside offering keyboard advice, criticism, or abuse."

They were one result away from having a very different view. I get the protectionism but surely that view is shortsighted? Not just for the wellbeing of the game as a whole. Having a single division takes away that risk of relegation for them next season. The mind boggles.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

From what I've heard, a merger of the two lower divisions was proposed at the last meeting. 

Championship clubs said no then, essentially because they want guaranteed home fixtures against the likes of Bradford etc which a single league with a draw to manage fixture numbers wouldn't guarantee. They also expressed concerns about travel to Cornwall etc, the RFL currently offer some financial support for travel to Toulouse, but this wouldn't be forthcoming for matches in the far south west.

My argument against that latter point is that if that is such an issue, your club shouldn't be in a national based league and should seek to enter/form a lower level regional competition.

But yet, and as we frequently see on here, the fans of such Championship clubs who are happy to pull up the drawbridge to suit themselves are the first to moan about Super League doing likewise.

[Rovers13]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

From what I've heard, a merger of the two lower divisions was proposed at the last meeting. 

Championship clubs said no then, essentially because they want guaranteed home fixtures against the likes of Bradford etc which a single league with a draw to manage fixture numbers wouldn't guarantee. They also expressed concerns about travel to Cornwall etc, the RFL currently offer some financial support for travel to Toulouse, but this wouldn't be forthcoming for matches in the far south west.

My argument against that latter point is that if that is such an issue, your club shouldn't be in a national based league and should seek to enter/form a lower level regional competition.

As much as I agree with that, I’d counter that with if you can’t spend full cap with SKY money you shouldn’t be in SL either. 

[Rovers13]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

But yet, and as we frequently see on here, the fans of such Championship clubs who are happy to pull up the drawbridge to suit themselves are the first to moan about Super League doing likewise.

I don’t think that’s the case tbh, I think champ clubs are usually on the receiving end and I think now they get a say their like you don’t do what’s best for game or us why should we accommodate these 8 clubs for you. 

[Rovers13]

Lots of bridges will have been burnt with the RFL and champ clubs so I’m not surprised they’re fighting back tbh. 

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

I don’t think that’s the case tbh, I think champ clubs are usually on the receiving end and I think now they get a say their like you don’t do what’s best for game or us why should we accommodate these 8 clubs for you. 

We've seen it time and again when things like this are discussed. Even within the Championship the bigger clubs have long created a 2 tier league by pushing for uneven funding.

[Rovers13]

Just now, Damien said:

We've seen it time and again when things like this are discussed. Even within the Championship the bigger clubs have long created a 2 tier league by pushing for uneven funding.

I don’t deny that but like everything in life if no one shares don’t expect others too. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Rovers13 said:

I don’t deny that but like everything in life if no one shares don’t expect others too. 

Super League and League 1 always shared funding equally. The situation with the Championship has always been an anomaly.

[dkw]

3 hours ago, Derwent said:

It’s not about being put into the Championship, it’s about having a structure that provides financial sustainability and interest for fans. It’s not as if the L1 clubs are asking for more money from the other clubs.

If the current situation continues then some of those Championship clubs are being extremely shortsighted because in 2025 it could be them who are in the 8 team league. It only takes one bad season.

Exactly this, Towns statement highlighted this, the clubs don't necessarily want more money, just more games to sell to fans, investors and sponsors.

The RFL have it in their power to make this happen in several ways, if it doesn't happen then it proves what many of us think, they simply don't give a ###### about the league and the teams in it.

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Super League and League 1 always shared funding equally. The situation with the Championship has always been an anomaly.

If that’s the case not enough then as loads of league 1 clubs are disappearing so champ clubs must be doing something right? 

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

If that’s the case not enough then as loads of league 1 clubs are disappearing so champ clubs must be doing something right? 

Newcastle were a Championship club.

L1 clubs are disappearing because their funding was cut from 75k to 15k. That is nothing to do with doing something right or wrong, its simply not enough for some clubs to survive.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Damien