(Yet another) restructuring thread

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I don't really understand this philosophy to be honest - surely you'd still want to be successful in the competition that you're playing in? Or is the aim solely about getting out of that competition?

Are we talking about Fev here?   I think they need to rebuild from scratch and I believe that will take more than the few months they have left before next season.

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

You’ll be watching that next season if the championship stays at 14 clubs. 

Doubt it I think it will be more competitive nxt year tbh as barring wakey I expect more clubs to spend less on the field. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

Are we talking about Fev here?   I think they need to rebuild from scratch and I believe that will take more than the few months they have left before next season.

Not sure, but I think I was quoting a Fev fan

[Cheadle Leyther]

I can see the Yorkshire championship and League 1 teams suggesting having East  and West conferences of 11 clubs in each, meaning less travel and plenty of local derbies:-The east would have Bradford, Batley, Dewsbury, Doncaster, Featherstone, Halifax, Keighley, Hunslet, Sheffield, Wakefield and York. The one drawback in this is the West division would have to include North Wales, Hurricanes, Cornwall and Toulouse/London, and so would have to be compensated for extra travelling costs. Playing each other in the same division twice would give 20 games and then you could play an extra 6 matches against clubs in the other conferences or say an 8 team playoff system featuring the top 4 clubs from each conference.

[Rovers13]

5 minutes ago, Griff said:

Are we talking about Fev here?   I think they need to rebuild from scratch and I believe that will take more than the few months they have left before next season.

We’re going off field now not on it griff, I’m sure we will still be very competitive on field but not anywhere near as dominant as we have been over last years, we’re going from full time to part time so that’s a big drop off too, I still expect us to be a top 4 champ side though as I’m guessing we will be offering best part time wages in championship. 

[Barley Mow]

8 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

Doubt it I think it will be more competitive nxt year tbh as barring wakey I expect more clubs to spend less on the field. 

What @Eddie means is Doncaster got promoted this year, you will be watching Fev v Doncaster in the Championship - whether you beat them by 80, we'll have to wait and see!

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

What @Eddie means is Doncaster got promoted this year, you will be watching Fev v Doncaster in the Championship - whether you beat them by 80, we'll have to wait and see!

If I get a season ticket probably, but undecided yet. 

[Griff]

11 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

We’re going off field now not on it griff, I’m sure we will still be very competitive on field but not anywhere near as dominant as we have been over last years, we’re going from full time to part time so that’s a big drop off too, I still expect us to be a top 4 champ side though as I’m guessing we will be offering best part time wages in championship. 

In essence, that's what I was saying.

[wiganermike]

22 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

I don’t think it makes much difference only to paying spectators tbh because I’d choose a bulls fax fev game than I would a fev hunslet game, it’s not just about not wanting them you have to think about your own fans too. Like close competitive games not cricket scores.  

Your viewpoint is understandable as one sided games become very boring particularly when they are the norm. Sadly though we seem to getting into the realms of necessity rather than what we would like to see happen. League 1 was struggling enough at 11 teams with the large cut in funding those clubs underwent. In the last 12 months or so that has gone to 10, 9 and now 8 clubs left standing. An 8 club league is not tenable, if it was we wouldn't have ditched the previous attempt at an 8 team division 2 that was tried. Obviously it would be a bridge too far too lump the likes of Cornwall, NWC and Midlands in with the likes of Wakey, Fev, Fax and co on an ongoing basis. Doing nothing though is not an option unless we wish to see the 8 clubs that remain forced to withdraw as well.

The two divisions need to be merged to allow all 22 clubs a chance to continue existing and competing within our sport. The recent meeting though shows the RFL that this can't be left to a vote by clubs. Self interest will scupper it and likely doom the 8 clubs if it is. The RFL need to be a governing body and to tell the Championship and League 1 clubs that the 2 divisions will be merged for 2024. This only needs be for a single season to facilitate a return to two smaller leagues (rather than having after the fact relegation occur) where the difference in playing strength will not be so stark. There would be some thumpings for sure in that one season but to paraphrase Christian B, one year of hammerings is better than no club (or the loss of 8 clubs) at all.

[Dovster]

27 minutes ago, Griff said:

Here's the reason why twelves and eights failed and why this won't happen.

Agreed.

However I don't think we'll find the perfect solution for all.

This would be for one season. You could call it a repositioning season.

[Rovers13]

2 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

Your viewpoint is understandable as one sided games become very boring particularly when they are the norm. Sadly though we seem to getting into the realms of necessity rather than what we would like to see happen. League 1 was struggling enough at 11 teams with the large cut in funding those clubs underwent. In the last 12 months or so that has gone to 10, 9 and now 8 clubs left standing. An 8 club league is not tenable, if it was we wouldn't have ditched the previous attempt at an 8 team division 2 that was tried. Obviously it would be a bridge too far too lump the likes of Cornwall, NWC and Midlands in with the likes of Wakey, Fev, Fax and co on an ongoing basis. Doing nothing though is not an option unless we wish to see the 8 clubs that remain forced to withdraw as well.

The two divisions need to be merged to allow all 22 clubs a chance to continue existing and competing within our sport. The recent meeting though shows the RFL that this can't be left to a vote by clubs. Self interest will scupper it and likely doom the 8 clubs if it is. The RFL need to be a governing body and to tell the Championship and League 1 clubs that the 2 divisions will be merged for 2024. This only needs be for a single season to facilitate a return to two smaller leagues (rather than having after the fact relegation occur) where the difference in playing strength will not be so stark. There would be some thumpings for sure in that one season but to paraphrase Christian B, one year of hammerings is better than no club (or the loss of 8 clubs) at all.

I agree with all that as I wish no club to not exist, but if it was me when Gradings come out I’d make the 2 leagues based on those results tbh. 

[Rovers13]

I say no club but I mean barring c@s

[gogledd]

59 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

If there is only one tier where they’re all in then they can’t, but I’m sorry I wouldn’t want to watch my team play a donny and put 80 on them. 

Doncaster got promoted...as it stands you WILL be playing them!

[Bulls2487]

3 hours ago, Catflap said:

Bulls fans make me laugh, you really can't stand being a mediocre team can you and looking at your sqaud, it'll be same again next year. You're just not happy unless you're slinging mud at Fev so your little team that play on a muddy field and dusty terracing look more superior.

Like Fev or not, the club have proven that they're more then capable of attracting good players and putting a strong team on the field and should they get a SL opportunity via the back door, I have no doubt they would field a competitive team.The league table doesn't lie, you can't deny Fev were by far the best team in the league over this season.

When you look at the history books. Bulls and Fev will show as defeated Semi Finalists and I believe funding for 2024 is based on where you finish in the playoffs.

Any decent Bulls fan will tell you we are happy with our season in 2023 and Odsal ain't fit for purpose but we don't have the funds to improve.

Fev have told everyone that it's a one horse for the past 3 seasons so have to take it when they fail.

No chance of SL expanding to 14

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, gogledd said:

Doncaster got promoted...as it stands you WILL be playing them!

That’s the difference though their ready obviously to step up as they deserved it.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

4 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

 

Alternatively, we could use the indicative IMG scores to select the 14.

I lose track amongst all the drivel but isn't that what is happening anyway?

[Griff]

6 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

There would be some thumpings for sure in that one season but to paraphrase Christian B, one year of hammerings is better than no club (or the loss of 8 clubs) at all.

No need for "thumpings".  Here's what I said on the Newcastle thread.

 

I roughed this out when there were 23 clubs, so it'd need a bit of tweaking but the principle's the same.

Split your 23 clubs into top 8, middle 8, bottom 7.

Top eight play each other home and away + middle eight home or away.   22 games.

Mddle eight play everybody home or away.  22 games

Bottom seven play each other home and away + middle eight home or away.  20 games.

Separate league tables for each group.

Advantages  - Reduces possibility of "blow-out" scores, attractive fixture list for all clubs.

Disadvantages - Compromises the principle of everyone playing each other home and away.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 minutes ago, Bulls2487 said:

 

No chance of SL expanding to 14

Opinion or you have heard/know?

[Rovers13]

3 minutes ago, Bulls2487 said:

When you look at the history books. Bulls and Fev will show as defeated Semi Finalists and I believe funding for 2024 is based on where you finish in the playoffs.

Any decent Bulls fan will tell you we are happy with our season in 2023 and Odsal ain't fit for purpose but we don't have the funds to improve.

Fev have told everyone that it's a one horse for the past 3 seasons so have to take it when they fail.

No chance of SL expanding to 14

Who thought it was a one horse race, I certainly didn’t hence why I put dewsbury Toulouse and Wigan in my acca. 

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I lose track amongst all the drivel but isn't that what is happening anyway?

The indicative gradings are being released soon, but these are to give an idea of how things will work and where we stand.

They won't be used to decide who is in which division next year. The gradings released in late 2024 will be used to decide which division for the first time for 2025.

[Bulls2487]

5 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Opinion or you have heard/know?

Opinion SL clubs won't want to share the reduced tv money if league if increased to 14.

[Griff]

1 minute ago, Bulls2487 said:

Opinion SL clubs won't want to share the reduced tv money if league if increased to 14.

It's not opinion, is it?

It's fact.

[Rovers13]

The clubs already voted and said no, so can’t see that changing tbh, it’s now up to img rfl to come up with a plan which I won’t hold my breath lol but league 1 is unsustainable but I wouldn’t be surprised if they stick with 8 and one up one down. 

[wiganermike]

7 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

I agree with all that as I wish no club to not exist, but if it was me when Gradings come out I’d make the 2 leagues based on those results tbh. 

You aren't the first to suggest that but the issue would be that the grading scores for next year were always meant to be indicative rather than having any direct consequence so you would be moving the goalposts. It would also involve performing after the fact relegation by doing this as at least two clubs that thought they had avoided relegation would find themselves dropped to League 1. It would be too contentious.

Grading scores were also never meant to determine whether a club was in Championship or League 1, just whether they were in SL or not so this would be yet more moving of goalposts.

[gogledd]

16 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

That’s the difference though their ready obviously to step up as they deserved it.

...but do you think you'll beat them by 80?