Liverpool St Helens

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, paul hicks said:

oh dont b e like that. there is a good chance he is from st helens or Liverpool.

think about it if you lived over there would you not want to move

If I lived in London yeah lol. 

[paul hicks]

5 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

You have to remember the only expansion club that’s took off big time is Catalans why? Because they’re competing with no other major sports. 

now that depends how far back you are willing to go

[Big Picture]

8 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

So what your saying is we need a Bangkok a Vienna a Warsaw etc lol just so London fans might come to a game of RL. 

Now that's an example of pins on a map if there ever was one.  But yes, something big, bold, well-funded and well-marketed is what's needed.

The road to succeeding in London goes through places like Toronto and New York. 

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Now that's an example of pins on a map if there ever was one.  But yes, something big, bold, well-funded and well-marketed is what's needed.

The road to succeeding in London goes through places like Toronto and New York. 

So your wanting a SL where you can’t get to many games unless your a millionaire sounds Great lol

[paul hicks]

3 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Thanks, unfortunately RL people in the UK are happy for things to stay as they are while the world changes around them and other sports continue to get more and more exposure in terms of coverage and column inches. Women's football, MMA, Boxing for example.

The Sky TV contract gets lesser and lesser and there doesn't seem to be any serious effort by other broadcasters to compete for the coverage. The sport is just too regional right now over here. That really needs to change and all I see are echo chamber comments.  

I think people on here and elements of the RL community would prefer to be right and win an argument and not have a problem with the sport becoming more and more irrelevant in the eyes of the joe public. 

now this is a comment i can certainly agree with.

how dare you suggest anything new when it comes to rugby league. 

as i was saying to my old mate wilf as we were racing our whippets last week it's all got too modern for me and thats what's wrong with the game we should go back to the 1930s when it was a great game and nothing could ever change it.

ah well must get back down the pit i know it was round here last time i looked

[paul hicks]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

How is adding Liverpool to the name of a club playing in St Helens changing anything?

It is precisely the kind of lip service token effort that has held the sport back and doesn't materially change anything.

err perhaps because people know where Liverpool is but think the other is a small island in the Atlantic where napoleon was sent to

[Chris22]

1 hour ago, Superb Chops said:

Hello Chris, I guess the 'nothing gained' point is likely right at this time. 

The reason I doubt myself slightly is St Helens seems to have changed a lot since I lived there in the 80s and 90s. 

Nowadays, there are possibly more Liverpool FC supporters in the town than Saints spectators. That was my conclusion driving my dad from the Ashton-end of Haydock to St Helens Hospital earlier this year. Lots of LFC merchandise in windows, barely nothing Saints-related to be seen other than the ground (and that going via Blackbrook) .

My father, meanwhile, tells me his neighbours know little about RL but talk a lot about football, mostly Liverpool. 

A shame, admittedly, but maybe the OP's question will have more legs in a decade or so? 

I do agree. If you compared when Liverpool made the Champions League Final in 2019 and when St Helens made the Challenge Cup Final in 2021, there was a lot more Liverpool flags around town, on houses etc. by comparison.

Maybe there is a bit of a generation split between those who will still refer to St Helens as being in Lancashire at one end and those who see St Helens as a suburb of Liverpool in the other.

Whilst the town's identity is still strong, in my view, it is right to say that the next generation will only have known St Helens as being part of the "Liverpool City Region" and views may change. I have my doubts that the opposite will be true and that people from Liverpool will see St Helens as an extension of it.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Rovers13 said:

So your wanting a SL where you can’t get to many games unless your a millionaire sounds Great lol

Not an SL like that, a whole new league separate from and far above the game's current structure in the northern hemisphere.

A league where all franchises are located in big, internationally known cities in G20 countries on either side of the Atlantic delivering blockbuster matches like those seen in the Champions League week in week out.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Big Picture

[Eddie]

19 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

Widnes is also in Liverpool City Region - is the suggestion that they change their name as well?

Do we get a 'Liverpool' derby or do Saints get to claim the whole city region for themselves?!

You could have Liverpool St Helens and Widnes Everton, it would be massive. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Eddie

[Griff]

13 hours ago, paul hicks said:

err perhaps because people know where Liverpool is but think the other is a small island in the Atlantic where napoleon was sent to

Only the other day, I was looking for Arsenal on the map. Couldn't find it.

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, Griff said:

Only the other day, I was looking for Arsenal on the map. Couldn't find it.

Its a tube station in North London next to the 4th or 5th biggest stadium in the capital? 

Its a jest, but actually names not associated with places work too. Plenty of US sports teams are known best by their monikers than their city.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tommygilf

[Eddie]

I think this idea should be extended, as well as Liverpool St Helens you could have Leeds Batley, Leeds Dewsbury, Leeds Fev, Bradford Keighley, Bradford Halifax, Manchester Warrington, Bolton Wigan, Manchester Oldham and Manchester Rochdale. 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

You could have Liverpool St Helens and Widnes Everton, it would be massive. 

Merge them together and call them "Merseyside Scouses"

[fieldofclothofgold]

Well I've always though that natives of St Helens and those of widnes too have hated being regarded as part of Liverpool.  I once heard one answer someone ( not me) at Headingley with " dont you call me a Scouser " . I dont think people like to think they are losing there identity.  Old Pudseyites  Morleyites never liked becoming Dare I say it part of Leeds 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Well I've always though that natives of St Helens and those of widnes too have hated being regarded as part of Liverpool.  I once heard one answer someone ( not me) at Headingley with " dont you call me a Scouser " . I dont think people like to think they are losing there identity.  Old Pudseyites  Morleyites never liked becoming Dare I say it part of Leeds 

They do but that is an increasingly small number of people. 

I went to high school in Wakey, with people from Wakefield and all over West and South Yorkshire - not that many from Leeds though. The vast majority when at University would describe themselves as being either from Leeds or Near Leeds. Its not even that surprising, a 10 minute train from Wakefield to Leeds city centre is a shorter journey than most of Leeds into Leeds city centre!

Deracinated cosmopolitan society? Perhaps. But as these big cities inevitably grow and subsume the smaller cities and towns around them, they are going to export more and more natives looking for cheaper more family friendly housing. It won't be long before St Helens becomes part of Liverpool culturally just by virtue of the numbers of people associated with Liverpool in the town.

By that point, it may have been a good idea to start looking at schools and colleges in the wider Merseyside area.

[FearTheVee]

21 hours ago, The Daddy said:

I'm not suggesting any relocation of the club at all. St Helens borough is within the Liverpool City Region

In which case your idea appears to be to rebrand simply so the people of Liverpool can travel to St Helens and pretend it's a Liverpool team?

As a Saints fan born in St Helens I think this idea holds more risk than benefit.  You would risk watering down a well supported club which is incredibly strongly rooted in its community to pretend it represents Liverpool (which in a way it already does for those interested in RL as the club has a decent following amongst scousers).

Not for me.

[dkw]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

I think this idea should be extended, as well as Liverpool St Helens you could have Leeds Batley, Leeds Dewsbury, Leeds Fev, Bradford Keighley, Bradford Halifax, Manchester Warrington, Bolton Wigan, Manchester Oldham and Manchester Rochdale. 

Workington Workington and also Workington Whitehaven...

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

In which case your idea appears to be to rebrand simply so the people of Liverpool can travel to St Helens and pretend it's a Liverpool team?

As a Saints fan born in St Helens I think this idea holds more risk than benefit.  You would risk watering down a well supported club which is incredibly strongly rooted in its community to pretend it represents Liverpool (which in a way it already does for those interested in RL as the club has a decent following amongst scousers).

Not for me.

Agreed. St Helens also has an authenticity about it that is respected if not particularly as glamorous then as hard earned.

In my view there should be at least an annual ability for those in Liverpool, or indeed the rest of Merseyside and beyond for whom Liverpool is easier to get to (and dare I say nicer) than St Helens to engage with a big match. Same for Wigan etc.

St Helens don't need to rebrand to Liverpool to become Merseyside's RL club.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, dkw said:

Workington Workington and also Workington Whitehaven...

Thats it the peace negotiators are having to be withdrawn from the middle east because of that comment!!

[Eddie]

How about Leeds Bradford, could even call them the Leeds Bradford Airports and have a ready made sponsor. 

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a tube station in North London next to the 4th or 5th biggest stadium in the capital? 

Its a jest, but actually names not associated with places work too. Plenty of US sports teams are known best by their monikers than their city.

As a Londoner I thought I'd clear this Arsenal info up, probably of no interest but here goes:

The football club started up as Woolwich Arsenal,  south of the river,  named after the army barracks which are still there. They moved to north London in 1913 ,to Islington. The tube station was renamed because of the club, it was originally Gillespie Road, before becoming Arsenal station. Highbury is nearby with its own station,  Highbury and Islington.

Royal Arsenal is a residential area in Woolwich,  not exactly er...a nice one!

Congratulations to London btw,  now we'll see if the fans flock into Plough Lane.  I have my doubts,  we Londoners don't really go for teams purporting to represent the whole of London,  we're too tribal! Call them Wimbledon Broncos or better Crystal Palace or Chelsea Broncos and now we're talking.

 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, HawkMan said:

As a Londoner I thought I'd clear this Arsenal info up, probably of no interest but here goes:

The football club started up as Woolwich Arsenal,  south of the river,  named after the army barracks which are still there. They moved to north London in 1913 ,to Islington. The tube station was renamed because of the club, it was originally Gillespie Road, before becoming Arsenal station. Highbury is nearby with its own station,  Highbury and Islington.

Royal Arsenal is a residential area in Woolwich,  not exactly er...a nice one!

Congratulations to London btw,  now we'll see if the fans flock into Plough Lane.  I have my doubts,  we Londoners don't really go for teams purporting to represent the whole of London,  we're too tribal! Call them Wimbledon Broncos or better Crystal Palace or Chelsea Broncos and now we're talking.

 

I've actually followed Arsenal myself and my good mate lives just round the corner from "Arsenal" or should that be "Gillespie Road" on Aubert Park - the old piccadilly line tiled signs still say the original name.

To me I think London would be better off, in their own market at least, focusing more on the Broncos aspect of their name. Its unique to the city, has a good amount of heritage too.

[Hanover XIII]

3 hours ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

Well I've always though that natives of St Helens and those of widnes too have hated being regarded as part of Liverpool.  I once heard one answer someone ( not me) at Headingley with " dont you call me a Scouser " . I dont think people like to think they are losing there identity.  Old Pudseyites  Morleyites never liked becoming Dare I say it part of Leeds 

In Widnes many people have hated being in the borough of Halton since Runcorn & Widnes were joined together by local government reorganisation, which also put them in Cheshire, not Lancashire, and then with the arrival of the Liverpool CIty Region, which Halton is part of, they hate that as well.

[redjonn]

mmm Liverpool St Helens,  why not Liverpool Warrington given the similar influx of people from Merseyside/Liverpool over similar years. Remembering its 15mins difference from Saints ground to Warrington ground to the other, if go via back roads (e,g, via Great Sankey)

Edited October 16, 2023 by redjonn

[Bostik Bailey]

As far as Scousers are concerned  their city stops at Huyton in the west, Crosby in the North, and Speak in the south, they even have their own derogatory term (invoking bestiality) for people East of Huyton. So yes there are small minded people in this area but not all of them live east of Huyton