England v Tonga series

[wilsontown]

I guess with gridiron you don't expect a scoring opportunity with every "set" of four downs, but you do have to make 10 yards over those four plays or you lose the ball. 

[Big Picture]

49 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

We're moving off topic here, but in that case is your plan to convince the IRL (NRL, RFL, etc) to change the rules the game is played by or are you intending to form a new code of football/rugby (albeit closely aligned to rugby league)?

I had assumed your 'big picture' rugby league competition would be playing rugby league (as already currently played), but it would be a huge undertaking to convince the governing bodies to change the rules to suit the tastes of North Americans in addition to finding the funding for the whole setup.

Added to that, I fear you could put off large parts of your European market with such a change.

My first question was, What are the requirements for success?  And my answer is that for the league to succeed it must attract and more importantly retain a new audience in places where there's little or no awareness that a different form of rugby exists.  So if the name rugby league is an obstacle to that, a name change is required.

The next question is what else is required to achieve that?  And the answer to that is many things, which include the right branding and the right onfield product.  For example, it must be possible for that new audience to learn the rules and how the game is played from watching it.

Therefore they must be able to follow the play, and if watching on TV they have to be shown all of the play without any of it being missed for ad breaks as happens with Nine's coverage of the NRL at times.  It must be sufficiently TV-friendly for the broadcast partners to be able to make money showing the matches, so it must have enough ad minutes available for them to sell, without their audience missing any of the play.

In short it has to be something able to go where RL has never been able to go.  And the chronic problems in northern hemisphere RL tell me that the game will be confined to Australiasia before long without that.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Big Picture

[Barley Mow]

7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

My first question was, What are the requirements for success?  And my answer is that for the league to succeed it must attract and more importantly retain a new audience in places where there's little or no awareness that a different form of rugby exists.  So if the name rugby league is an obstacle to that, a name change is required.

The next question is what else is required to achieve that?  And the answer to that is many things, which include the right branding and the right onfield product.  For example, it must be possible for that new audience to learn the rules and how the game is played from watching it.

Therefore they must be able to follow the play, and if watching on TV they have to be shown all of the play without any of it being missed for ad breaks as happens with Nine's coverage of the NRL at times.  It must be sufficiently TV-friendly for the broadcast partners to be able to make money showing the matches, so it must have enough ad minutes available for them to sell, without their audience missing any of the play.

In short it has to be something able to go where RL has never been able to go.  And the chronic problems in northern hemisphere RL tell me that the game will be confined to Australiasia before long without that.

From what you say, it seems you would adopt your own rules whether the rugby league governing bodies were in agreement or not.

I think we should probably not take this off-topic any more than we have already, but it seems to me that you are essentially proposing a new code as well as a new competition (albeit - initially at least - closely related to rugby league).

Back on topic, I'm glad that my tickets for Headingley have arrived.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Back on topic, I'm glad that my tickets for Headingley have arrived.

Even though every set of six will see 48 easily gained yards in a 'contest' featuring only repetitive basic plays?

[Lowdesert]

30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Even though every set of six will see 48 easily gained yards in a 'contest' featuring only repetitive basic plays?

……..and 10 minutes of advertisements.  

[RigbyLuger]

Will England win all three tests this weekend?

[ELBOWSEYE]

42 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

My first question was, What are the requirements for success?  And my answer is that for the league to succeed it must attract and more importantly retain a new audience in places where there's little or no awareness that a different form of rugby exists.  So if the name rugby league is an obstacle to that, a name change is required.

The next question is what else is required to achieve that?  And the answer to that is many things, which include the right branding and the right onfield product.  For example, it must be possible for that new audience to learn the rules and how the game is played from watching it.

Therefore they must be able to follow the play, and if watching on TV they have to be shown all of the play without any of it being missed for ad breaks as happens with Nine's coverage of the NRL at times.  It must be sufficiently TV-friendly for the broadcast partners to be able to make money showing the matches, so it must have enough ad minutes available for them to sell, without their audience missing any of the play.

In short it has to be something able to go where RL has never been able to go.  And the chronic problems in northern hemisphere RL tell me that the game will be confined to Australiasia before long without that.

So it won't carry on in England (130 years and counting), France and all the other countries with fledgling competition's. I don't know if you realise that more people play in leagues that don't have TV contracts and have never had contracts. It's only the small percentage of professional part of the game that requires TV revenue to go with gate and sponsorship revenue. 

I laughed at the requirements to understand the rules(it's laws). How many referees in union actually understand the laws never mind the watching audience.

I think you have too much time on your hands.

[Lowdesert]

4 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Will England win all three tests this weekend?

This could be the biggest test, especially after Wanes comments.  But to answer your question ‘yes’ by a Harry smith drop goal.

I read somewhere that Thewlis and Harvard are to be called up.  On the latter, I can only think one our forwards has an injury - guessing Radley with ribs related problem.  

[RigbyLuger]

40 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

This could be the biggest test, especially after Wanes comments.  But to answer your question ‘yes’ by a Harry smith drop goal.

I read somewhere that Thewlis and Harvard are to be called up.  On the latter, I can only think one our forwards has an injury - guessing Radley with ribs related problem.  

Thewlis and Smithies! Radley a doubt.

[gingerjon]

53 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Will England win all three tests this weekend?

Yes. Comfortably.

[Lowdesert]

37 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Thewlis and Smithies! Radley a doubt.

Can’t even blame autocorrect for that one!

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

So it won't carry on in England (130 years and counting), France and all the other countries with fledgling competition's. I don't know if you realise that more people play in leagues that don't have TV contracts and have never had contracts. It's only the small percentage of professional part of the game that requires TV revenue to go with gate and sponsorship revenue. 

I laughed at the requirements to understand the rules(it's laws). How many referees in union actually understand the laws never mind the watching audience.

I think you have too much time on your hands.

Of course I know that more persons play in leagues which aren't seen on TV, but those clubs have been shrinking as the player pool declines.  As the opportunities in RL become less, more young players will move to RU.

Of course viewers don't have to understand every single rule, but they do need to get to know the basics at least.  Then they can learn the rest over time.

 

[Hopie]

2 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Will England win all three tests this weekend?

1st Test Banker, no problem, Wales are terrible.

2nd test, probably, but I wouldn't guarantee it. Are England motivated, and they keep losing players.

3rd Test, probably slight odds against, but I wouldn't put money on it. World Cup final went to the wire, so could this.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Hopie

[Exiled Wiganer]

16 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Of course I know that more persons play in leagues which aren't seen on TV, but those clubs have been shrinking as the player pool declines.  As the opportunities in RL become less, more young players will move to RU.

Of course viewers don't have to understand every single rule, but they do need to get to know the basics at least.  Then they can learn the rest over time.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, or our game, however I will bite.

As to your assertions here - the fact is that worldwide more players are playing than ever, in more countries than ever. We are clearly the dominant football code in Australasian and the South Pacific, with daylight second. The vichies are no threat to that, and we will continue to have the pick of the north, an area with 10s of millions of people. Not because we’re clever, or have infinite resources and certainly not because of any establishment favours. We just happen to have the greatest game. 

[Northern Eel]

17 minutes ago, Hopie said:

1st Test Banker, no problem, Wales are terrible.

2nd test, probably, but I wouldn't guarantee it. Are England motivated, and they keep losing players.

3rd Test, probably slight odds against, but I wouldn't put money on it. World Cup final went to the wire, so could this.

Yes, I agree entirely with that assessment. It's going to be another great weekend though.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I think that the hardest game of the 3 this week end for England will be the wheelchair one. All of them are extremely watchable, as are the 2 Pacific Cup finals. Popcorn and slippers for me. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

51 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Of course I know that more persons play in leagues which aren't seen on TV, but those clubs have been shrinking as the player pool declines.  As the opportunities in RL become less, more young players will move to RU.

Of course viewers don't have to understand every single rule, but they do need to get to know the basics at least.  Then they can learn the rest over time.

 

No where in the heartland areas do players choose union over league unless the people in that area are involved with union locally. In Warrington more kids play league then before it's the transition to adults that it's drops and that is everywhere team sports are played, football is king but even they have dropping numbers, union and league have the same problems but theirs is area related to where the sports are played. The drops because of changes on society with children playing sports, female areas are positive but that's from a very small base.

[Hopie]

Just coming back to the marketing, looks like they are pushing this at the Leeds fans rather than a wider market. Harry Newman being the player put forward for the press interviews would be an odd choice unless that was the case. 

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Hopie said:

Just coming back to the marketing, looks like they are pushing this at the Leeds fans rather than a wider market. Harry Newman being the player put forward for the press interviews would be an odd choice unless that was the case. 

I don't really see how that is a bad thing. I'm not sure who else you'd choose to use to get any more promotion from a wider market anyway.

[Hopie]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I don't really see how that is a bad thing. I'm not sure who else you'd choose to use to get any more promotion from a wider market anyway.

I'd rather they do both. It's not bad, it's just not optimal. That'll do isn't my mindset.  

I reckon the captain would be a good choice, but basically anybody who hasn't convinced most fans of other teams that they are a ######.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Hopie said:

I'd rather they do both. It's not bad, it's just not optimal. That'll do isn't my mindset.  

I reckon the captain would be a good choice, but basically anybody who hasn't convinced most fans of other teams that they are a ######.

Its not doing both though is it, is Welsby really that much more known than Newman? As I said it's not like there are any standouts that appeal to the wider public anyway, we aren't hiding a Martin Offiah away here.

Newman is an England player as much as anyone else, I really don't get the club mentality when it comes to the England team.

[Hopie]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Its not doing both though is it, is Welsby really that much more known than Newman? As I said it's not like there are any standouts that appeal to the wider public anyway, we aren't hiding a Martin Offiah away here.

Newman is an England player as much as anyone else, I really don't get the club mentality when it comes to the England team.

Welsby isn't captain.

I don't have the club mentality, but it is clear most of our core audience does. The marketing I've seen is for the core audience because I'm in the core audience.

[Damien]

4 hours ago, Hopie said:

Welsby isn't captain.

I don't have the club mentality, but it is clear most of our core audience does. The marketing I've seen is for the core audience because I'm in the core audience.

Welsby was captain for the first two tests.

Is it clear? I don't care, you say you don't care. That's 2 out of 2 so far for who this just isn't a thing.

I think you are blowing this out of all proportion. Newman being used for interviews is no big deal. I saw Wane used yesterday. If I go to the RFL or England RL websites there is a big half page photo of Burgess being used to sell tickets. It's hardly like it's Newman and that's it.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Damien

[Barley Mow]

It looks as though the South Stand terrace is practically full for Saturday now - if you try to buy 36 tickets for the match it gives you South, East and West Stand terraces as options, if you try to buy 37, only East and West are available.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

It looks as though the South Stand terrace is practically full for Saturday now - if you try to buy 36 tickets for the match it gives you South, East and West Stand terraces as options, if you try to but 37, only East and West are available.

37 tickets? Bravo for your dedication to ticket sales checking