The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Guest]

Just now, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

The 9 criteria have little to do with the quality of (normal) fan experience but are very heavily weighted towards provision of corporate and media facilities

Seems reasonable to weight (pub intended) a ground to how comfortable Mick Geldhill is. 

[Guest]

Just now, Leonard said:

Seems reasonable to weight (pub intended) a ground to how comfortable Mick Geldhill is. 

The intended pun wasn't necessary.

[Mumby Magic]

Rugby League the sport that keeps on giving. Our possible last chance saloon and its a farce. Predictive text came up with faeces lol, might be nearer. I just don't know what to say anymore. I've been the eternal optimist for over 35 years yet the sport seems determined to perish. How many stupid decisions can a sport make and survive?

[Leyther_Matt]

What a mess. An utterly dispiriting, miserable mess. 

[Damien]

It does all seem up for grabs between 10-13.

Obviously if Cas are correct and they get another 0.5 that would make them safe you'd imagine. If not they are in big trouble. You can now see why they are desperate to make those small improvements to their ground, as per their recent statement, to improve their score.

Another year in SL will only improve the Leigh score slightly if they don't finish bottom, as their 2021 bottom finish drops out of the average, and where they finish next year will be pretty crucial. They will lose their 0.25 Challenge Cup win bonus though so may be worse off. You'd imagine the rest would be much the same.

A year less in SL goes against Wakefield and makes their finishing position next season really important. There are unknowns with the new owner and new stand. They will have already got some points for finance and stadium so it's just a matter of how much more they can wring out of it.

Toulouse may see a drop as their Championship and Grand Final winning season 2 seasons ago will fall out of the 3 years average. I doubt Toulouse can improve elsewhere either. 

Obviously other factors some into play too but if Cas are wrong they look pretty certain to be 13th on the face of it. If not then league placings could be pretty crucial between Cas, Leigh, Toulouse and Wakefield and even the Championship Grand Final 0.25 point bonus could be key. Leigh could well be pretty vulnerable once they lose the 0.25 bonus and it looks between them and Cas for me.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mumby Magic said:

Rugby League the sport that keeps on giving. Our possible last chance saloon and its a farce. Predictive text came up with faeces lol, might be nearer. I just don't know what to say anymore. I've been the eternal optimist for over 35 years yet the sport seems determined to perish. How many stupid decisions can a sport make and survive?

The real tragedy in all of this is that IMG could not find a way to combine it with the Super 8 format.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

Cas' actual score will use the corrected financial figure, moving them up the rankings. Leigh will also get a further boost with another year in SL.

I believe the question will be Wakefield or Toulouse for the 12th SL place.

Will Leigh get a boost? They will lose the boost they got from the Cup win (unless they win again). A 12th placed finish will rolloff. There is a chance that Leigh's score may go down next year. If Cas' score is adjusted now, Leigh are already 13th.

[OdsalBull]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

It does all seem up for grabs between 10-13.

Obviously if Cas are correct and they get another 0.5 that would make them safe you'd imagine. If not they are in big trouble. You can now see why they are desperate to make those small improvements to their ground, as per their recent statement, to improve their score.

Another year in SL will only improve the Leigh score slightly if they don't finish bottom, as their 2021 bottom finish drops out of the average, and where they finish next year will be pretty crucial. They will lose their 0.25 Challenge Cup win bonus though so may be worse off. You'd imagine the rest would be much the same.

A year less in SL goes against Wakefield and makes their finishing position next season really important. There are unknowns with the new owner and new stand. They will have already got some points for finance and stadium so it's just a matter of how much more they can wring out of it.

Toulouse may see a drop as their Championship and Grand Final winning season 2 seasons ago will fall out of the 3 years average. I doubt Toulouse can improve elsewhere either. 

Obviously other factors some into play too but if Cas are wrong they look pretty certain to be 13th on the face of it. If not then league placings could be pretty crucial between Cas, Leigh, Toulouse and Wakefield and even the Championship Grand Final 0.25 point bonus could be key. Leigh could well be pretty vulnerable once they lose the 0.25 bonus and it looks between them and Cas for me.

I like how everyone is painting a 3 horse race when Bradford are the 4th club within a point of 10th. We may not be able to make the improvements to get there but I would imagine the club will know what they need to do and hopefully are working towards it

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Will Leigh get a boost? They will lose the boost they got from the Cup win (unless they win again). A 12th placed finish will rolloff. There is a chance that Leigh's score may go down next year. If Cas' score is adjusted now, Leigh are already 13th.

It's the accountants' version of the mascot derby.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Leonard

[MattSantos]

15 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Does finishing bottom of SL with no wins and a record points difference gets more completion points than winning the championship?

I think you get a bonus for winning the champ, otherwise yes. Tracked over a 3 year period though, you could be awful in the Championship or even league 1 and then do a London. 

It's too confusing and i ask the same question: when will a team and the fans, the really important fans, know what is required to be promoted / not relegated? At the start of the season? Mid? After? 

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Ragingbull said:

Keighley owners at is again.  

Apparently they are insulted at being ranked 30 out of 35 so have issued the most pathetic statement. 

Absolute tin pot of a club. 

Which part was factually incorrect?

Keighley, hardly prescient,made a statement prior to any utterance from IMG.

Firstly,Super League clubs wanted to continue Magic Weekends,which IMG wanted to halt - and then todays controversy on IMG's second announcement, acter clubs voted for them,apparently understanding what their actions were to be.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/clubs-vote-in-favour-of-img-proposals

Keighley simply reminded their followers what has occurred relative to themselves since IMG entered the sport.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, OdsalBull said:

I like how everyone is painting a 3 horse race when Bradford are the 4th club within a point of 10th. We may not be able to make the improvements to get there but I would imagine the club will know what they need to do and hopefully are working towards it

Well no, its a 4 horse race, hence why I said 10-13. One of those horses isn't Bradford though. If you yourself don't think you can make the improvements to get there in 1 season then you obviously agree.

[M j M]

I've updated my estimate of how the Leeds score breaks down.

I can't quite get it to where they have ended up but it's close enough.

NB for anyone thinking Leeds have poor on-field performance recently, that's true enough and there are no bonus points for winning stuff. But under the definitions used in the calculation the finishing positions over the last three years have been 8th, 2nd and 3rd so not as bad as might be expected.

[Barley Mow]

28 minutes ago, Damien said:

It does all seem up for grabs between 10-13.

Obviously if Cas are correct and they get another 0.5 that would make them safe you'd imagine. If not they are in big trouble. You can now see why they are desperate to make those small improvements to their ground, as per their recent statement, to improve their score.

Another year in SL will only improve the Leigh score slightly if they don't finish bottom, as their 2021 bottom finish drops out of the average, and where they finish next year will be pretty crucial. They will lose their 0.25 Challenge Cup win bonus though so may be worse off. You'd imagine the rest would be much the same.

A year less in SL goes against Wakefield and makes their finishing position next season really important. There are unknowns with the new owner and new stand. They will have already got some points for finance and stadium so it's just a matter of how much more they can wring out of it.

Toulouse may see a drop as their Championship and Grand Final winning season 2 seasons ago will fall out of the 3 years average. I doubt Toulouse can improve elsewhere either. 

Obviously other factors some into play too but if Cas are wrong they look pretty certain to be 13th on the face of it. If not then league placings could be pretty crucial between Cas, Leigh, Toulouse and Wakefield and even the Championship Grand Final 0.25 point bonus could be key. Leigh could well be pretty vulnerable once they lose the 0.25 bonus and it looks between them and Cas for me.

I think Leigh will be pretty safe.

Although I have assumed that they keep the 0.25 point bonus for the Challenge Cup (and previous Championship GF) for the three full years.

As you say, if they don't finish bottom of SL, their on-field score increases.

After this season you would also expect their crowds, ground utilisation, finances & social media score for next year to be better than the year they were relegated.

They and Castleford get another year of the built in SL advantages next year - Assuming Cas fill the form our correctly next year, I see it as Toulouse or Wakefield for the 12th place.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Barley Mow

[Gav Wilson]

York are theoretically the 5th best club outside Super League then, which is pretty much where they've finished in the Championship since 2019 (3rd, 7th, 5th, 6th). Lots of potential for improvement too. Happy with that!

Cas dropping to 13th for filling the form out wrong is very, very funny. 

Keighley calling it all an 'insult' and the 'spreadsheet era of rugby league' 

Fev straight up accusing clubs of lying about attendances.

All in all, a great day on Twitter.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, MattSantos said:

I think you get a bonus for winning the champ, otherwise yes. Tracked over a 3 year period though, you could be awful in the Championship or even league 1 and then do a London. 

It's too confusing and i ask the same question: when will a team and the fans, the really important fans, know what is required to be promoted / not relegated? At the start of the season? Mid? After? 

So in theory London give up the season and win zero games but the system awards them more points than 2nd in the Champ with, say, 1 loss.

Feels punchy.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I think Leigh will be pretty safe.

Although I have assumed that the keep the 0.25 point bonus for the Challenge Cup (and previous Championship GF) for the three full years.

As you say, if they don't finish bottom of SL, their on-field score increases.

After this season you would also expect their crowds, ground utilisation, finances & social media score for next year to be better than the year they were relegated.

They and Castleford get another year of the built in SL advantages next year - Assuming Cas fill the form our correctly next year, I see it as Toulouse or Wakefield for the 12th place.

According to the criteria it says current season for the performance bonuses, which I presume is whatever happens next season.

Cas were in SL and finished 7th in 2021 (which counts in this provisional ranking). They will need to improve substantially to beat that season next year.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Damien

[crashmon]

This actually looks about what I would expect tbh

SL chairman have 2 goals

1) Get lots of money from Sky
2) Get lots of money from high attendances (not just gate money, but also food and drink sold at the stadium)

So  Which Champ club might bring the most away fans ??  Bradford in the minds of the SL chairman

So lets rig it so at the end of next year we relegate london and promote Bradford....

IMG just dance to the SL Chairman... 

OFC it will all fall flat and most of them will  end up with even less than they have now....

Not having a dig at bradford fans here or even bradford,,, but this looks like a fix to get Bradford back in SL.... 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

It's the accountants' version of the mascot derby.

In all seriousness, on one hand transparency should be applauded, but a challenge here is that this really does become a league table that arguable many will see as more important than the real league tables. 

I know people are being dismissive of the point, but Leigh could have a great year next year, make the Grand Final and Cup Final, London could make the top 6 and make the Playoffs. And then both hoofed out at the end of the season. 

[Barley Mow]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Will Leigh get a boost? They will lose the boost they got from the Cup win (unless they win again). A 12th placed finish will rolloff. There is a chance that Leigh's score may go down next year. If Cas' score is adjusted now, Leigh are already 13th.

I think this is the answer to your question:

4 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I think Leigh will be pretty safe.

Although I have assumed that the keep the 0.25 point bonus for the Challenge Cup (and previous Championship GF) for the three full years.

As you say, if they don't finish bottom of SL, their on-field score increases.

After this season you would also expect their crowds, ground utilisation, finances & social media score for next year to be better than the year they were relegated.

They and Castleford get another year of the built in SL advantages next year - Assuming Cas fill the form our correctly next year, I see it as Toulouse or Wakefield for the 12th place.

 

[RigbyLuger]

4 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

York are theoretically the 5th best club outside Super League then, which is pretty much where they've finished in the Championship since 2019 (3rd, 7th, 5th, 6th). Lots of potential for improvement too. Happy with that!

Cas dropping to 13th for filling the form out wrong is very, very funny. 

Keighley calling it all an 'insult' and the 'spreadsheet era of rugby league' 

Fev straight up accusing clubs of lying about attendances.

All in all, a great day on Twitter.

And "journalists" not having a clue, as per usual!

[Hopie]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Will Leigh get a boost? They will lose the boost they got from the Cup win (unless they win again).

Bonus points are only for 1 season out of the 3 year assessment period? Surely that can't be right?

[MattSantos]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

So in theory London give up the season and win zero games but the system awards them more points than 2nd in the Champ with, say, 1 loss.

Feels punchy.

A single year's points. No. 

12th receive 2.778 points.

Winner of champ would get 2.778 (presumably 13th as winner of the play offs) and then a bonus of 0.25 giving them a better performance. 

However. Over 3 years.... 

It's too complicated!!

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

According to the criteria it says current season for the performance bonuses, which I presume is whatever happens next season.

Okay, I'll take another look at that.

[MattSantos]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

In all seriousness, on one hand transparency should be applauded, but a challenge here is that this really does become a league table that arguable many will see as more important than the real league tables. 

I

Because it is.