England vs Samoa Series

[Mathius Hellwege]

28 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Looking at the atmosphere and crowds not sure too many people really give a toss 

The Tonga series was clearly a test of the appetite for expanding international league and clearly nothing like the 70,000 or so regular weekly SL/champ attenders wanted to go and see it 

So be it ....and in a way it can be used to make the Samoa news less of a blow for us all

Let's concentrate on building the club game 

When NFL and MLB go international, we give up and succeed by pushing the club game....so ridiculous

[Mathius Hellwege]

2 minutes ago, UTK said:

There's no reason that England couldn't join the top tier of a Euro A competition next year, there are structures that could be utilised allowing a Euro A comp to double as the WCQ they are currently intended to be.

What is likely to preclude it from happening is that England believe the European Championships are beneath them, hence why they have ignored the competition for 2 decades.

Unfortunately a golden opportunity had been handed to secure future SH post-season competition and it has subsequently been bottled. Everybody knew this situation was only a matter of time post-2017, there are no surprises that teams prefer to play in front of their home fans rather than halfway across the World in entirely incompatible timezones, this is an unfortunate geographic reality of our sport. 

The notion that Samoa should regret this decision is quite hilarious, the onus was on England to establish an appealing opportunity with the Tonga series - both financially and otherwise, this did not occur as has been well-discussed on this forum. The notion of England being positioned as some form of altruistic body offering potential independence from the NRL is a very fanciful interpretation of the circumstances, as if Samoa or Tonga won't be treated as the distant 3rd option after AUS/NZ every year.

Absolutely, they can do a packing 4N every year in the SH and we offer less than 40.000 in the M62 corridor

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

11 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

When NFL and MLB go international, we give up and succeed by pushing the club game....so ridiculous

???

The NFL are pushing internationally with their club game aren't they? 

You've literally ridiculed something after giving a great example of why it's not ridiculous 

The club game has brought top flight RL to Toulouse, Catalan, Barcelona, Dublin and Toronto to name a few places .....we need to be better at it of course 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[UTK]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure this is a fair narrative. Let's be completely honest here, these have never been huge profit drivers. 

I think this is a narrative that is used by Aussies who don't buy into international RL. 

The real reason these games need to happen is because playing internationals all over the world is how we will grow the game. 

Australian Woolf carried on the narrative last week on his sour grapes rant, saying they only came over to help the RFL. 

If the likes of NZ and the Pacific Nations have bought into the Australian plan of keeping NRL players Down Under to control them, then international RL is all but dead. 

That's far more important than the RFL improving it's profit by a couple of hundred thousand.

The International game gets far more out a full house for Tonga v Samoa in front of Tongan and Samoan fans than it does for 3x 11-15k in the North of England.

If England cared about growing the game they would've engaged with the European Championships at some point over the last 20 years and perhaps promoted some actual growth that would've helped in the precarious situation they find themselves in. Instead they're spent years inventing pretend teams to avoid playing actual tests against developing nations, England care solely about what's best for England and are reaping the rewards of that stance right now.

[Mathius Hellwege]

27 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

???

The NFL are pushing internationally with their club game aren't they? 

You've literally ridiculed something after giving a great example of why it's not ridiculous 

The club game has brought top flight RL to Toulouse, Catalan, Barcelona, Dublin and Toronto to name a few places .....we need to be better at it of course 

 

I wanted to give you your best shot 

even a sport just being played in one country tries to go international

the better example is the MLB who now tries to establish a new tournament with national teams (WBC)

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Let's concentrate on building the club game 

1) The RFL aren't going to do that either

2) Unfortunately the club game has pretty much zero relevance to the rest of the UK. Without internationals, I fear the game will become even less relevant and will continue its slide into becoming a regional oddity

[The 4 of Us]

Apologies if already mentioned above, but which idiot has been spinning a Samoa series to happen when clearly they hadn’t been asked. Appalling. Amateur operation. RL in the UK needs an independent commission running the game. Asap. 

[Josef K]

What a bummer, i was looking forward to them coming over as i think they would have offered more than Tonga. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

19 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Apologies if already mentioned above, but which idiot has been spinning a Samoa series to happen when clearly they hadn’t been asked. Appalling. Amateur operation. RL in the UK needs an independent commission running the game. Asap. 

They have been asked

[Mathius Hellwege]

25 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

1) The RFL aren't going to do that either

2) Unfortunately the club game has pretty much zero relevance to the rest of the UK. Without internationals, I fear the game will become even less relevant and will continue its slide into becoming a regional oddity

Vicious cycle and the M62 corridor fans even like despite only five of their clubs having five-digit average home crowds...

[The 4 of Us]

Just now, Mathius Hellwege said:

They have been asked

And they have said no. To clarify I meant ask before the spun that a series was to happen. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

https://www.intrl.sport/news/ashes-series-kangaroo-kiwi-tours-revived-in-international-calendar/
 

no Samoa tour 2024

[Mathius Hellwege]

https://www.intrl.sport/news/international-schedule-2023-2030/
 

also not

 

so no need to think 2025/2027/2028 tours will also be cancelled 

they hedged their bets and wanted to know if the RFL can stage a successfull tour against a PI

they failed and now hopefully they still trust the RFL for 27 and 28

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I was thinking of Ripon.....now that I know from this forum it is a city 

I visited there on Sunday travelling  back from Newcastle to get to Leeds for the wheelchair game. I was surprised to see signs for the city centre 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

I wanted to give you your best shot 

even a sport just being played in one country tries to go international

the better example is the MLB who now tries to establish a new tournament with national teams (WBC)

Have a day off mate

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I visited there on Sunday travelling  back from Newcastle to get to Leeds for the wheelchair game. I was surprised to see signs for the city centre 

Yes...the city centre is just a car park with a pub and a few shops around it 

Good Workhouse museum and pubs though 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

50 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

1) The RFL aren't going to do that either

2) Unfortunately the club game has pretty much zero relevance to the rest of the UK. Without internationals, I fear the game will become even less relevant and will continue its slide into becoming a regional oddity

We are doomed then 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Just now, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yes...the city centre is just a car park with a pub and a few shops around it 

Good Workhouse museum and pubs though 

Beautiful cathedral as well. I've been twice this year, lovely little city. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

Just now, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Beautiful cathedral as well. I've been twice this year, lovely little city. 

Yeah....actually thinking of going there again for our annual January weekend away (we buy each other that as Xmas presents) ....January is a great time to visit places....you get it all to yourself and everything is cheaper!

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 minute ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yeah....actually thinking of going there again for our annual January weekend away (we buy each other that as Xmas presents) ....January is a great time to visit places....you get it all to yourself and everything is cheaper!

That's a great idea for a present! Maybe I'll treat myself to that trip to St Albans I'm planning! 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

That's a great idea for a present! Maybe I'll treat myself to that trip to St Albans I'm planning! 

Sounds good mate

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, UTK said:

The International game gets far more out a full house for Tonga v Samoa in front of Tongan and Samoan fans than it does for 3x 11-15k in the North of England.

If England cared about growing the game they would've engaged with the European Championships at some point over the last 20 years and perhaps promoted some actual growth that would've helped in the precarious situation they find themselves in. Instead they're spent years inventing pretend teams to avoid playing actual tests against developing nations, England care solely about what's best for England and are reaping the rewards of that stance right now.

I strongly disagree. And I do wish people would get over this Northern obsession (it clearly isn't only the RFL) - the North of England isn't some little oddity - it is England, and can be called as such.

As per my many posts over the last few days, the RFL have driven Tier 2 nations being brought to the table in World Cups and Four Nations, until the NRL sacked them off again. Anyone who thinks that Scotland, Ireland and Wales are any kind of opposition that will grow substantially want their bumps felt (and I say that as a Scotland fan). 

But, if we do want to go down that route:

In the last 10 years the Aussies have played 32 Tests - 14 of them outside the big 3. (this doesn't include the annual PNGXIII game to be fair)

England have played 32 Tests - 21 of them outside the big 3.

Who do you think was the driver behind more tier 2 nations in the World Cups?

Again, over the last 10 years, the top 20 crowds in international RL have seen 9 in England, 5 in Oz and 6 in NZ.

We shouldn't rewrite history because of a below-par Tonga series.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

Absolutely, they can do a packing 4N every year in the SH and we offer less than 40.000 in the M62 corridor

Meanwhile the facts do show that the biggest international crowds are in England and have been for some while. I accept that is likely to change with these  developments, but let's not make out we are some backwater sport and as though the M62 is this huge problem.  

When I was looking back through some recent numbers, I noticed that the Aussies delivered 5 great crowds in the top 20 - 1 of them was a Four Nations Double Header, 1 was the WC17 final, and the next three were the mid-season Anzac Test.  There is something interesting about four of those matchups.

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I was thinking of Ripon.....now that I know from this forum it is a city 

I visited there on Sunday travelling  back from Newcastle to get to Leeds for the wheelchair game. I was surprised to see signs for the city centre 

[Tommygilf]

Fwiw, I think a tri/4 nations series with France, Lebanon and Wales is likely going to be the best we can get over here in the NH. I'd play France and Wales away from home (or at least in the South West of England for Wales). Lebanon strikes me as a decent game for a smaller London venue or Leeds - on the assumption that Beirut is out and the RFL aren't going to the Gulf. 

The alternative would be us going down under to play the teams not playing that week in the Pacific Cup, but Samoa staying might suggest that the top tier of that becomes a 4 team comp anyway which punts us to PNG, FIJI and the Cook Islands - which seems far more expensive than hosting a lower key NH tournament.

Finally, maybe a Euros? Or a few NA nations.