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Posted

The attendance was ok. Nobody I know predicted a disaster - just another disappointment. And, even with Wigan buying a load of tickets to give away, it might still be considered that. Looked and sounded pretty much like the first Test v Tonga last year. 

Better game, however. Looking forward to next Saturday.


Posted
1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Nobody I know predicted a disaster

Nobody did. But in order for 15,000 to be anything other than 'meh', it has to pretended that they did.

  • Like 1

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

15,000 with tickets being given away free with Wigan memberships?

Nah. That is properly poor.

As RL fans we do seem quite unique in over-analysing how tickets are shifted. 15.1k is absolutely a disappointing crowd, but we don't look at ticket prices, comps, sponsor tickets etc for other games that we use as benchmarks.

Posted
1 minute ago, Damien said:

I do think if the Wigan and Leeds games were flipped around we'd have got 20k at Wigan next week after that game today.

Possibly.

Certainly agree that Wigan (or Saints) shouldn't be leading off a series if we have any ambition.

Posted
1 minute ago, N2022 said:

Yes, but that was played in Hamilton NZ. Compare its population in catchment and RL history with Wigan's...

It was Australia v NZ for goodness sake. In a final. Its as big as you get. You can't have this both ways and bleat about Samoa and England being two of the top four nations in the world then make excuses for a blockbuster fixture like that.

  • Like 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

The attendance was ok. Nobody I know predicted a disaster - just another disappointment. And, even with Wigan buying a load of tickets to give away, it might still be considered that. Looked and sounded pretty much like the first Test v Tonga last year. 

Better game, however. Looking forward to next Saturday.

How many were given away (when purchasing a £250 season ticket) for last years game?

Posted
Just now, Dave T said:

As RL fans we do seem quite unique in over-analysing how tickets are shifted. 15.1k is absolutely a disappointing crowd, but we don't look at ticket prices, comps, sponsor tickets etc for other games that we use as benchmarks.

I mean, we do. Quite a lot.

And, trust me, this happens in other sports too.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
2 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Possibly.

Certainly agree that Wigan (or Saints) shouldn't be leading off a series if we have any ambition.

First up fixtures are notoriously difficult to get right. I'm a big fan of a big event London game, or Newcastle or other non heartland venue, to set the tone for the other games. I think that had been shown to work well. Obviously the RFL are more risk averse.

Posted
1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I mean, we do. Quite a lot.

And, trust me, this happens in other sports too.

Wr may discuss it as they are happening, but certainly not when reviewing g crowds afterwards. 

Can you answer how many freebies were given for the 13k crowd last year? 

We can't compare like for like - people will always claim freebies, cheap tickets, deals etc - that's just a part of life when selling tickets, it always has been, this year is no different.

The 15.1k speaks for itself, it doesnt really need much else to be said. For me, we should have been hoping for 3-5k more.

  • Like 1
Posted

15k for these games was always the pass mark for me given the level of promotion and apathy we've seen. We got that, just, and will get better next week. It is respectable and didn't come across as terrible on TV.

I know Dave said a few pages back about perspective and context around attendances for these games against the likes of Samoa. We only got 17,649 at Hull the last time the Kiwis toured, there is simply no logical basis for people to pretend this should have been a 25k sellout.

  • Like 2
Posted
6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The 15.1k speaks for itself, it doesnt really need much else to be said. For me, we should have been hoping for 3-5k more.

Okay - I'll say what was said elsewhere: it seemed that everything being done to push sales and engagement for the game was being done by Wigan. That's why I mentioned freebies.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
4 minutes ago, Damien said:

It was Australia v NZ for goodness sake. In a final. Its as big as you get. You can't have this both ways and bleat about Samoa and England being two of the top four nations in the world then make excuses for a blockbuster fixture like that.

It was played in a non-RL city with under 200,000 inhabitants. Auckland population 1.7million is nearly 2 hours away. For comparison, Greater Manchester alone has a population of nearly 3 million.

Don't know if you're expecting Aussies to travel over. 3 hour flight and over £200 fare just to get to Auckland.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Only East and West standing left now at Headingly. North and South presumably sold out.

If you're going off the ticket site, I suggest that means nowt really 🤣

Posted
1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Okay - I'll say what was said elsewhere: it seemed that everything being done to push sales and engagement for the game was being done by Wigan. That's why I mentioned freebies.

That's fair, but freebies are not a new thing, there will have been some in that Saints game last year, and some in that 13k for the Pacific Final last year. I think when we review these things and compare, we can only really go off attendance figs announced.

On Wigan pushing this. I don't 100% agree. Their site was pushing memberships and Vegas, and the free tickets thing was a bit buried really. A little like the other SL clubs in the area were pushing memberships and fireworks!

 

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, N2022 said:

It was played in a non-RL city with under 200,000 inhabitants. Auckland population 1.7million is nearly 2 hours away. For comparison, Greater Manchester alone has a population of nearly 3 million.

Don't know if you're expecting Aussies to travel over. 3 hour flight and over £200 fare just to get to Auckland.

Must have missed all those Samoans flying across the world for this game. This is just more weird excuses against your own argument.

Samoa played NZ in Auckland in the 2017 World Cup and there was only 17,857. This is in a city full of Kiwis and Samoans at the home of RL in South Auckland. Despite that they could only get 2k more than this, in a World Cup too.

Let's view today's crowd in the context of international RL and what a game like this gets and not pretend that we should be doing hugely better for just because reasons.

Edited by Damien
  • Like 2
Posted
10 minutes ago, Damien said:

Must have missed all those Samoans flying across the world for this game. This is just more weird excuses against your own argument.

Samoa played NZ in Auckland in the 2017 World Cup and there was only 17,857. This is in a city full of Kiwis and Samoans at the home of RL in South Auckland. Despite that they could only get 2k more than this, in a World Cup too.

Let's view today's crowd in the context of international RL and what a game like this gets and not pretend that we should be doing hugely better for just because reasons.

Clearly I don't expect lots of Samoans to travel to Wigan. I am responding to your point about the NZ Aus final. You said it was a huge event so the crowd being smaller showed there wasn't a problem with today's attendance. I was making the point that the Pacific final was played in a population desert compared with a town on the edge of Greater Manchester, so regardless of the final's profile it was hard to see who you imagined would/could attend. As the locals aren't big on RL, you'd be expecting people to make the trek from Auckland, there really aren't other sizeable cities around. As for away support, I assumed you were trying to suggest Aussies would be up for watching the game in numbers and trying to point out that the flight is too long and expensive to make that likely.

That the Pacific final was wrongly located to attract a really big crowd, or was strategically located to draw in a smaller crowd but engage with a new market, does not affect my view that an England Samoa match in that part of heartlands should be getting closer to selling out.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Damien said:

Must have missed all those Samoans flying across the world for this game. This is just more weird excuses against your own argument.

Samoa played NZ in Auckland in the 2017 World Cup and there was only 17,857. This is in a city full of Kiwis and Samoans at the home of RL in South Auckland. Despite that they could only get 2k more than this, in a World Cup too.

Let's view today's crowd in the context of international RL and what a game like this gets and not pretend that we should be doing hugely better for just because reasons.

Your point on 2017 is a better comparison. Not sure why they couldn't get more than 18000 in for the opening group game on a Saturday night in late spring given the location and population composition.

Posted

Here's something novel, for a thread like this.

I loved it. The game was great and I can't wait for next weeks match. 

  • Like 7
Posted
7 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Here's something novel, for a thread like this.

I loved it. The game was great and I can't wait for next weeks match. 

That’s not how we talk on here

  • Haha 2
Posted
20 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Here's something novel, for a thread like this.

I loved it. The game was great and I can't wait for next weeks match. 

Aye, it certainly wetted the appetite and with sales looking strong for Headingley and the late game biff, I think we'll see a step up again. 

I've said it before but I just think this England side needs more opportunities to prove what it's capable of. It very sadly blew having a crack at the Aussies in the last World Cup final but in the main, they've been pretty dominant against the opposition they've faced. We need to see that next step up now and while I wouldn't expect us to win the Ashes next year, I think we can be really competitive. 

  • Like 2
Posted
2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Okay - I'll say what was said elsewhere: it seemed that everything being done to push sales and engagement for the game was being done by Wigan. That's why I mentioned freebies.

The last series against Tonga always had a sense of the RFL / RL Commercial "phoning it in" and basically trying to get the series done and dusted as cheaply as possible. 

I get the point @Dave T is making about whether or not free tickets should be something we discuss, but I think it is fair to question whether international RL has the sort of "value" to make it commercially viable. Last year we had elite athletes being told that they had to fly economy class from Sydney to play in an international series to keep costs low, and this year we had a whole "will they? won't they?" saga around Samoa that I'm sure wouldn't have happened if the series was financially viable and lucrative. 

Again, we're back to discussing whether RLC had done enough to make its international RL producs a success and on the face of it, we're coming up with the same familiar answers. The series hasn't been well promoted, we've managed a passable crowd for the first test in a heartland venue that - whether we like it or not - appears to have been boosted by ticket promotions, the series sponsor is one that we already have in the sport, the main England sponsor seems to be another favour from Fred and a secondary one seems to have appeared at the last minute out of nowhere. 

Above all else, the players deserve so much better than this. 

  • Like 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Above all else, the players deserve so much better than this. 

So many times this is true, isn't it?

This is a demanding sport, and an unforgiving one.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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