Would a Yorkshire vs Lancashire game in 2024 be that bad an idea?

[Griff]

So we spend a week complaining how it's a Northern game and how badly Cornwall have been treated and isn't it a shame that Skolars haven't been better supported.

Then somebody pipes up "How about bringing the Roses game back?"

[Barley Mow]

10 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Even less chance they would make themselves available then.

I'd say as likely as they are to be available for matches with Lebanon or Jamaica.

[Superb Chops]

Maybe use it as a boost to non-SL Pennines clubs like Oldham and Halifax, among others, with the Roses clash played before or after the home side have a league game.

Opportunity for the sides involved, nice freebie and fairly central for supporters. Grounds appropriately-sized.

In a quiet year, why not try a new approach to break up the regular SL season?

 

[Chrispmartha]

1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

The Rodstock War of the Roses games around the late 80s did get some decent crowds. The issue was Yorkshire won them all, the game didn't seem as much to the Lancashire boys as as it did to the Yorkshire players. Credit though to Peter Fox who used to really get his players fired up for it, despite Lancashire arguably having a better squad to pick from.

What were the attendance figures forvthe rodstock games?

I thinkbthe issue is what are you defining as Lancashire, EG St Helens is in Mersyside isn’t it?

Do Lancastrians see it as a defining thing like Yorkshire people tend to do?

[Click]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

43 years of professional rugby league in London and still treated like guests at the party.

See also the M62 clubs deciding that a few trips to Cornwall for some of them is an idea that is beyond the Pale.

Especially as Southern players have been playing in Lancs v Yorks games for years at academy level.

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

What were the attendance figures forvthe rodstock games?

I thinkbthe issue is what are you defining as Lancashire, EG St Helens is in Mersyside isn’t it?

Do Lancastrians see it as a defining thing like Yorkshire people tend to do?

This is the point. Yorkshire is still Yorkshire. But the “Lancashire” clubs are really Cheshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. This is what players have home all their lives. Even parents of players are creeping towards that. That belonging to Lancashire is fading away

[Anita Bath]

35 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I'd say as likely as they are to be available for matches with Lebanon or Jamaica.

You are not wrong in that.

[Chrispmartha]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

This is the point. Yorkshire is still Yorkshire. But the “Lancashire” clubs are really Cheshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. This is what players have home all their lives. Even parents of players are creeping towards that. That belonging to Lancashire is fading away

Simple then.

Yorkshire V the rest of the UK.

We’ve always wanted independence anyway

[RigbyLuger]

Are BBC One going to show it? No.

[Marrafan]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

If it was to happen should Cumbria play London/SE at the same time or do we just let Knowles, KPP,  McMeeken etc play for either Yorks or Lancs?

No. Why not the revive the old County Championship, Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and include a fourth team made up of London/South.

[Hopie]

It has merit as a fixture, it has history and has attracted TV coverage and decent crowds in the past. It is something that happens annually at other levels of the game and you can buy replica shirts for Yorkshire and Lancashire on the England RL shop.

There are certainly things it is not, but as has been noted elsewhere England need to play games, and improve. For me the best team England could play in terms of standard of opposition that is actually available this year, is England Knights. England Knights or England A or whatever you call them are the second best team in Europe and should beat any other European team, and any other international team not playing in the NRL Pacific competitions.

How you package that, England vs Knights, Probables vs Possibles, SL All star game, Yorkshire vs Lancashire etc is a choice and I think the roses concept is the one most likely to draw a crowd. I'd certainly take it over England vs Other Nationalites, which despite being the oldest international fixture in Rugby League, won't work when most players of an international standard will be playing in the SH tournaments and it gives less opportunities for England qualified players.

 

[Lowdesert]

2 hours ago, Yorky said:

Morning All,

I'm expecting to get shot down here but as someone who is a relatively new fan of the sport I have to ask the question!

With the disappointment of the Samoa series falling through, everyone is putting suggestions forward as for what can replace it. I have read the talk of Yorks vs Lancs on lots of threads but the idea generally seems to be dismissed. What was the game like in previous years? Competitive or a post season friendly style pace? Good crowds or bad?

As a Yorkshireman my self (All be it living elsewhere now) I'm well aware of the historic rivalry between the 2 counties which always adds a bit of edge in sports - I totally get that in an ideal world we would be getting Competitive international games and all focus should be on that, but in the absence of this would a battle of the roses really be such a bad idea?

Maybe 2 games, 1 in Yorkshire, 1 in Lancashire? If its a game that hasn't been played in years it might capture a bit of imagination among the fans

I think it would be the wrong time, what with a) the push to make sure clubs stay in SL and b) clubs not releasing better/niggle or slightly injured/key players.

[Coco]

It would great if we had a war of the roses. Three match series. This game has relevance and a lot of meaning. 

I rather we had these games than international games. Also have international games on at the same time. France versus Wales three match series. 

We need to stop relying on the southern hemisphere. The NRL have made it clear how they see us. 

The war of the roses. This would be a fantastic concept. Not sure who I would support though. I live in London. 

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, Coco said:

It would great if we had a war of the roses. Three match series. This game has relevance and a lot of meaning. 

I rather we had these games than international games. Also have international games on at the same time. France versus Wales three match series. 

We need to stop relying on the southern hemisphere. The NRL have made it clear how they see us. 

The war of the roses. This would be a fantastic concept. Not sure who I would support though. I live in London. 

A lot of meaning to who?

[JM2010]

57 minutes ago, Marrafan said:

No. Why not the revive the old County Championship, Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and include a fourth team made up of London/South.

I’d like to see that but would Yorks and Lancs be far too strong?

[Coco]

The War of the Roses needs to be our State of Origin. 3 match series after the end of Super League. The players who play in Australia that are English Qualified should also be selected. 

Pick two coaches that will embrace and understand what is being created. We have about 15 players that I know that are English Qualified playing in the NRL. I don't know of those playing in the reserve competition or academies in the Southern Hemisphere. 

This competition will help to select players for the national side. 

[crashmon]

3 minutes ago, Coco said:

The War of the Roses needs to be our State of Origin. 3 match series after the end of Super League. The players who play in Australia that are English Qualified should also be selected. 

Pick two coaches that will embrace and understand what is being created. We have about 15 players that I know that are English Qualified playing in the NRL. I don't know of those playing in the reserve competition or academies in the Southern Hemisphere. 

This competition will help to select players for the national side. 

No this is the absolute worst thing we could possibly have.

This just reinforces that RL is a poor working mans game played in a small section of England with fans who come to a game after a day working in t'pit or in t'mill.

If you want RL in the NH to be back to being an amateur game in the next 10 years go ahead and re-inforce that fhat we only think about the M62 when we play RL.

You need to being speading awareness of RK across the country if you want sponsers to spend more, Sky BBC etc to pay more.

Not one person who lives in London \ Cornwall \ Brum \ Newcastle \ Wales \ etc gives any sort of interest in a game played between 2 Northern counties? 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

This is the point. Yorkshire is still Yorkshire. But the “Lancashire” clubs are really Cheshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. 

No they're not.  That's what Lancashire folk would have you believe because they have no pride in being Lancastrian.

Councils change, as we've seen with the abolition of Cumbria this year.   Counties are immutable.

[Chris22]

We would have to have a very loose definition of Lancashire as very few top players were born in Lancashire. Personally, it wouldn't appeal to me in the same way that an England game would.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

Are BBC One going to show it? No.

You've checked?

[Barley Mow]

7 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

We would have to have a very loose definition of Lancashire as very few top players were born in Lancashire. Personally, it wouldn't appeal to me in the same way that an England game would.

Both Yorkshire and Lancashire would be defined as the traditional counties - https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Yorkshire & https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Lancashire. This is always what is meant when we refer to Yorks or Lancs in a RL context.

I'd also allow players like Mike McMeeken to play (for the county they most associate with through the clubs they've played for, etc) and players like Victor Radley (who has Yorkshire heritage).

It would have less appeal than England Vs Australia or New Zealand, but the premise of this thread is that the only international opposition likely to be available to England next autumn is Lebanon or Jamaica. To me this would have more appeal and would be less likely to lose money than England Vs one of those.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Barley Mow

[crashmon]

2 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Both Yorkshire and Lancashire would be defined as the traditional counties - https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Yorkshire & https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Lancashire.

I'd also allow players like Mike McMeeken to play (for the county they most associate with through the clubs they've played for, etc) and players like Radley (who has Yorkshire heritage).

It would have less appeal than England Vs Australia or New Zealand, but the premise thread is that the only international opposition likely to be available to England next autumn is Lebanon or Jamaica. To me this would have more appeal to a small section of the watching public who live alongside the M62 and would be less likely to lose money than England Vs one of those.

Fixed it for you

[Barley Mow]

11 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Fixed it for you

I accept that it is less likely to attract attention outside of Yorkshire and Lancashire. But we need to look at the alternative for next autumn:

Flying Lebanon up from Australia will cost the RFL a similar amount to the Tonga tour this year. I don't think that we could sell enough tickets/TV rights/sponsorship anywhere in the country to make that financially viable.

The appeal of a roses series may well be confined to Yorks, Lancs and RL addicts elsewhere, but I think the costs would be less, the crowds comparable and the standard of the matches higher.

Of the limited options, I think this (along with the mid-season test against France) might be the best of a bad bunch.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Barley Mow

[crashmon]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

I accept that it is less likely to attract attention outside of Yorkshire and Lancashire. But we need to look at the alternative for next autumn:

Flying Lebanon up from Australia will cost the RFL a similar amount to the Tonga tour this year. I don't think that we could sell enough tickets/TV rights/sponsorship anywhere in the country to make that financially viable.

The appeal of a roses series may well be confined to Yorks, Lancs and RL addicts elsewhere, but I think the costs would be less, the crowds comparable and the standard of the matches higher.

Of the limited options, I think this (along with the mid-season test against France) might be the best of a bad bunch.

I am not disagreeing with you.  But commercially I don't see Sky paying to televise this, and BBC if they did it would only be on for BBC North channels and behind the red button for the rest.

So the only income your really going to get is from gate recipts.  WIll that be enough to make a profit

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

39 minutes ago, Coco said:

This competition will help to select players for the national side. 

For the internationals that they're never going to play...