Would a Yorkshire vs Lancashire game in 2024 be that bad an idea?

[crashmon]

I just do not see any option which does not lose RFL money. You could argue even if Samoa came over the RFL could have lost money.

I don't see any of the SH based England players coming over to the UK to play in any game which is not an England International.

If the aim is to get England some games, the only way I see this is for England to join PNG, Fiji and Cooks in the Bowl comp as the 4th team and play the games vs PNG and Cooks in PNG, and play Fiji in Fiji.  Then the final if they make it (they should).  PNG and Fiji on there home pitches would be more of an hit out for an england team than any game in the NH.

Any other game (Origin type game, game vs France) do mid season only using NH based players.

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, crashmon said:

I just do not see any option which does not lose RFL money. You could argue even if Samoa came over the RFL could have lost money.

I don't see any of the SH based England players coming over to the UK to play in any game which is not an England International.

If the aim is to get England some games, the only way I see this is for England to join PNG, Fiji and Cooks in the Bowl comp as the 4th team and play the games vs PNG and Cooks in PNG, and play Fiji in Fiji.  Then the final if they make it (they should).  PNG and Fiji on there home pitches would be more of an hit out for an england team than any game in the NH.

Any other game (Origin type game, game vs France) do mid season only using NH based players.

They definitely shouldn’t play in the bowl comp. We’ve just whitewashed Tonga so why should we play a level below them?

[crashmon]

5 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

They definitely shouldn’t play in the bowl comp. We’ve just whitewashed Tonga so why should we play a level below them?

Because we are not going to be playing Aus, NZ, Tonga or Samoa next year in any circumstances.

So when you remove those 4 teams as an option to play.  What do you have left from an International point of view? Is there a better option out there. 

Forget Aus, NZ, Tonga, Samoa. Thats not happening next year

Edited November 11, 2023 by crashmon

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

Young people, eh?

Middle aged people

[JM2010]

7 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Because we are not going to be playing Aus, NZ, Tonga or Samoa next year in any circumstances.

So when you remove those 4 teams as an option to play.  What do you have left from an International point of view? Is there a better option out there. 

Forget Aus, NZ, Tonga, Samoa. Thats not happening next year

I know it’s not happening but I don’t think we should fly to the SH to play in a 2nd tier comp

[crashmon]

Just now, JM2010 said:

I know it’s not happening but I don’t think we should fly to the SH to play in a 2nd tier comp

Which was my point in an earlier post.  I really feel we should just not have an England international at the end of 2024 as there is just nobody suitable to play.  If we play France it would be a one off in france, and SH based england players are not going to spend 18 hours in economy class flying back to play in it

[tiffers]

Naive question of the day here...

Is there a French regional split that would make sense to create a 4 team competition between Yorks, lancs, french region1, french region2?

Helps France internationally. The obvious issue next winter being that France are tied up with WC qualification.

[Mathius Hellwege]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:26, Damien said:

The thing is we should be doing both and matches like Tonga v Samoa should be happening mid season. The issue we see now are coming into play because the NRL wishes to condense the international game into 3 end of season games.

 

19 hours ago, Pulga said:

A couple of months into our 10 year international calendar and it's already looking more than a little shakey.

 

35 minutes ago, tiffers said:

Naive question of the day here...

Is there a French regional split that would make sense to create a 4 team competition between Yorks, lancs, french region1, french region2?

Helps France internationally. The obvious issue next winter being that France are tied up with WC qualification.

has to be Yorkshire-Lancashire-France (War of Roses and 100yearWar) and rest of UK (civil War?)

[Archie Gordon]

36 minutes ago, tiffers said:

Naive question of the day here...

Is there a French regional split that would make sense to create a 4 team competition between Yorks, lancs, french region1, french region2?

Helps France internationally. The obvious issue next winter being that France are tied up with WC qualification.

Just one French region would do - Occitanie. We could include 5 British regions with a player base to compete with them. In all likelihood, we'd get a Yorkshire-Lancashire final which would please some people.

I do think a short regional comp along those lines is worth exploring. It would support the geographical spread of the game and allow us to claim a nationwide interest for a while, give areas w/o a SL club an elite team to follow (e.g. Cumbria, South Wales), and would be much cheaper to do than funding an elite club. 

[Damien]

I don't see why people are suggesting ideas that will be of a lower intensity and worse quality than a SL match between two top teams. It serves absolutely no purpose.

[tiffers]

8 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Just one French region would do - Occitanie. We could include 5 British regions with a player base to compete with them. In all likelihood, we'd get a Yorkshire-Lancashire final which would please some people.

I do think a short regional comp along those lines is worth exploring. It would support the geographical spread of the game and allow us to claim a nationwide interest for a while, give areas w/o a SL club an elite team to follow (e.g. Cumbria, South Wales), and would be much cheaper to do than funding an elite club. 

I can certainly see the advantages of a regional game. You either go down an origin route or you go down a franchise route similar to T20.

You'd imagine the origin is cheaper and quicker. But the franchised route gives you further options to monetise later down the line.

[Coastal_Geordie]

I’d rather see England v Exiles/All stars/random Super League non English players than this.

But I’m not from Yorkshire or Lancashire.

[Anita Bath]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I don't know the answer to this but are there any other sports where NSW play Queensland where it comes close to the fever pitch of Origin?

Because Lancashire v Yorkshire is a cricket rivalry. It was tried over 100 times in rugby league and it never fired.

You obviously dont play snooker in Tweed Heads.

[FileyBulldog]

To be fair we see plenty "war of the roses" games over the course of a season in league and cup competition so I don't see it being a big deal for RL fans and it would certainly do nothing to attract new eyes to the sport. We need something like Union has with the Six Nations which is without doubt RU's biggest attraction that continues to do well for the sports finances and spectator growth.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

I assume eligibility would be based on first professional club played on York's/Lancs? (Historic Lancs) 

I.e. McMeekan plays for Yorkshire after playing for Cas? 

What's the population of historic Lancs and York's? Maybe 10 million ?

A decent demographic to aim to I guess? We don't have anywhere near saturation in that area so could it strengthen the heartlands and fish were the fish are? 

Worth a two game series for me and I'd go

 

[Coco]

I believe we are missing the point of this thread. The NRL have made decisions about International Rugby League. There are those understanding their agenda and their are those who keep talking about the fantasy of playing Australia and New Zealand. I don't believe this thread is for them.

The concept of developing our own state of Origin is to have our own Competition for Super League and the Northern hemisphere. It's got nothing to do with International Rugby League. This about having a meaningful competition for our English Qualified players. We have 15 right now playing in the NRL. Maybe there is more? We have another 15 - 20, that may meet the standards playing for England. 

Now we have Yorkshire / London / Cumbria / Lancashire /.  What the thread is about is getting these players smashing the ###### out of other for bragging rights. They play three games, for one side to win and players to take the mantle of being the best in their position. It should be a step up from the Super League competition because we have the best English players smashing the ###### out of each other.  That's all. For the fans its to see the best English players smashing the hell out of each other and also taking the bragging rights, which side is the best in developing the best rugby league players. That's all. Our own state of origin. From the comments it's not wanted. That's cool. There are those interested in this concept,there are lots who are not. That is cool as well. It's a good topic to discuss. Your views and opinions are acknowledged. I really wanted our own state of origin. That's all.

[Barley Mow]

17 minutes ago, Coco said:

I believe we are missing the point of this thread. The NRL have made decisions about International Rugby League. There are those understanding their agenda and their are those who keep talking about the fantasy of playing Australia and New Zealand. I don't believe this thread is for them.

The concept of developing our own state of Origin is to have our own Competition for Super League and the Northern hemisphere. It's got nothing to do with International Rugby League. This about having a meaningful competition for our English Qualified players. We have 15 right now playing in the NRL. Maybe there is more? We have another 15 - 20, that may meet the standards playing for England. 

Now we have Yorkshire / London / Cumbria / Lancashire /.  What the thread is about is getting these players smashing the ###### out of other for bragging rights. They play three games, for one side to win and players to take the mantle of being the best in their position. It should be a step up from the Super League competition because we have the best English players smashing the ###### out of each other.  That's all. For the fans its to see the best English players smashing the hell out of each other and also taking the bragging rights, which side is the best in developing the best rugby league players. That's all. Our own state of origin. From the comments it's not wanted. That's cool. There are those interested in this concept,there are lots who are not. That is cool as well. It's a good topic to discuss. Your views and opinions are acknowledged. I really wanted our own state of origin. That's all.

If you read the title and the opening post of the thread again, you will see that the point of this thread is actually discussing whether a roses match would be a good idea in 2024 because England currently don't have any autumn international opposition and the potential available international opposition for next year is limited.

That is a completely different conversation than the one you are having.

Threads do drift. You may be right that some other people are missing the point of the thread, but it certainly isn't about what you say.

Maybe start a new thread about replacing internationals with a regional English representative competition if that is what you would like to discuss.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Barley Mow

[GeordieSaint]

19 hours ago, Damien said:

I don't see why people are suggesting ideas that will be of a lower intensity and worse quality than a SL match between two top teams. It serves absolutely no purpose.

1. We have no imagination as a sport in the British Isles and/or France. 

2. We can’t actually come up with nor develop a coherent strategy to develop the game in the British Isles and/or France.

3. Our leaders and a big bunch of the supporter base are driven by nostalgia rather than the future. 

4. We are incredibly lazy as a sport in the British Isles ravaged by insular attitudes and self-interest. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by GeordieSaint

[Coco]

I totally agree with you. But hey, it's a  forum to discuss various issues about rugby league. There are many that make a lot of excuses about why it won't work, and there are those fantasize about things that make no sense. But hey it's good that we have a place to discuss a Sport we all follow, without any arguments and allowing those to making an opinion about the sport.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

23 hours ago, crashmon said:

I just do not see any option which does not lose RFL money. You could argue even if Samoa came over the RFL could have lost money.

I don't see any of the SH based England players coming over to the UK to play in any game which is not an England International.

If the aim is to get England some games, the only way I see this is for England to join PNG, Fiji and Cooks in the Bowl comp as the 4th team and play the games vs PNG and Cooks in PNG, and play Fiji in Fiji.  Then the final if they make it (they should).  PNG and Fiji on there home pitches would be more of an hit out for an england team than any game in the NH.

Any other game (Origin type game, game vs France) do mid season only using NH based players.

Yeah agreed a d like I've said....international rugby league played in England is now in the history books and won't continue properly 

Not enough fans gave enough of a **** to buy tickets for the last series so that's it...done 

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Coco said:

. But hey it's good that we have a place to discuss a Sport we all follow, without any arguments and allowing those to making an opinion about the sport.

Yes I always say the lack of argumenta on here is a draw .....Lol!!!!!! Ha ha ha 

[The Future is League]

On 11/11/2023 at 21:00, crashmon said:

Financially it would be a huge loss maker

Also I very much doubt anybody would cover it other than Sky.  If you got more thr 5K crowds I'd be astonished?

Correct. They have tried to revive it at various times and it just spark the sporting publics interest nowadays.

[Hopie]

8 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

If you read the title and the opening post of the thread again, you will see that the point of this thread is actually ...

That is a completely different conversation than the one you are having.

Threads do drift. You may be right that some other people are missing the point of the thread, but it certainly isn't about what you say.

Maybe start a new thread about ...

I think this could be reposted in nearly every thread of this board