Sat 24th Feb: WCC: Wigan Warriors v Penrith Panthers KO 8pm (Sky/BBC/SuperLeague+)

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

If we are going to have different laws for different countries/competitions (which is crazy in itself), the least we can do is actually have a set of international laws that we play to rather than just decide match by match how to play.

It may be a daft question,  but how many of the 24,000 crowd and the 100 of 1000's watching on TV would you expect to know that we have different rules in the RFL and NRL let alone another set of International rules, a very small percentage I would say, it is only nerds like us aware of these things.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And also the pass from Keighran to Miski was slightly forward in the build up to the first try !, but slightly forward is still forward, you surprise me being a devotee of match stats that you use that terminology.

It wasn't forward - the referee didn't give it as forward.

I thought you were explaining to me (in capital letters no less) on the last page that if the ref didn't give it then it wasn't contentious.  Or does that argument only work for the decisions you agree with?

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Dunbar said:

It wasn't forward - the referee didn't give it as forward.

I thought you were explaining to me (in capital letters no less) on the last page that if the ref didn't give it then it wasn't contentious.  Or does that argument only work for the decisions you agree with?

What did you think?

[Dunbar]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

It may be a daft question,  but how many of the 24,000 crowd and the 100 of 1000's watching on TV would you expect to know that we have different rules in the RFL and NRL let alone another set of International rules, a very small percentage I would say, it is only nerds like us aware of these things.

Agreed.  But let's not make that worse by inventing laws for a one off game.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What did you think?

I thought the pass from Keighran to Miski was forward.

[Harry Stottle]

18 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I was about to protest and then I remember that London are actually in Super League this year.

I didn’t think the reffing was great but have mellowed since the evening. Not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that it wasn’t an incredible occasion and a memorable, compelling contest.

It was a great game Ginger, but I still feel marred by inadequate reffing to live up to the occasion.

[Phil]

You know what?

 I don’t care, I don’t care about video ref calls, alleged forward passes or ball steals.

 I care that we (an English club) beat the Aussies and now it’s our turn to say “you lost, deal with it” after years of shall we say “contentious” aussie refereeing decisions 

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

You know what?

 I don’t care, I don’t care about video ref calls, alleged forward passes or ball steals.

 I care that we (an English club) beat the Aussies and now it’s our turn to say “you lost, deal with it” after years of shall we say “contentious” aussie refereeing decisions 

Indeed.  I have been having a bit of fun on social media telling the NRL fan pages that I will root for the NRL team next year as I think a competetive international scene is good for the game as a whole and we need to look at the bigger picture.

[Damien]

And for the moaning about Harry Smith not getting a ban, this from the whiter than white NRL and Panthers:

Mitch Kenny will miss the Panthers’ season opener against the Storm after being suspended for a “couple Boxing Day lines” social media post.

Kenny was allowed to play in Penrith’s World Club Challenge loss to Wigan last weekend however the NRL have imposed a one game ban and a $10,000 fine.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2024-team-tips-round-1-predicted-sides-injuries-ins-and-outs-suspensions-jarome-luai-fitness-test-dolphins-tom-gilbert-cameron-ciraldo-bulldogs-news/news-story/1bcbeebc3f85a989822c291a5e5dfde8

[JohnM]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Give over John, hand on heart if those decisions had gone against Wigan what would you have said?

Decisions don't go for or against anyone. They are made. I respect the officials and want the best team to win.

[WN83]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Exactly.

Wigan's scrambling defence was fantastic and while undoubtedly they were clinging on at times Penrith could ultimately only score 2 tries. Even at that one of those was courtesy of a lucky bounce straight into the arms of a Penrith player from a kick that Miski could not collect, which is hardly a result of Penrith creating anything in attack. The other was courtesy of a rapidly tiring Wigan defence close to half time.

And realistically Penrith should have been able to overcome any bad decisions people thought they got when they were only playing against a rabble, who'd had one of those famed 'Pi*s easy' English pre seasons. I think Wigan spent most of theirs playing darts, following on from watching young Luke Littler at the worlds and being inspired by his athleticism. 

[unapologetic pedant]

44 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Indeed.  I have been having a bit of fun on social media telling the NRL fan pages that I will root for the NRL team next year as I think a competetive international scene is good for the game as a whole and we need to look at the bigger picture.

My L.U. alter ego kept it short and sweet on the game thread -

"Cope, Seethe, Whinge"

[LeeF]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I was about to protest and then I remember that London are actually in Super League this year.

I didn’t think the reffing was great but have mellowed since the evening. Not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that it wasn’t an incredible occasion and a memorable, compelling contest.

Some are trying though. 

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Yes, this was one of the few occasions since 2014 in Melbourne where I felt that sort of sadness and frustration.

Nip it in the bud. Sadness and frustration are addictive.

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Nip it in the bud. Sadness and frustration are addictive.

Just ask any Warrington fan!

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Just ask any Warrington fan!

Stuff them. I get all my advice from Swinton fans.

[northamptoncougar]

Genuine question, the French try, would that have been offside in the NRL?

 

Edited February 27 by northamptoncougar

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, northamptoncougar said:

Genuine question, the French try, would that have been offside in the NRL?

 

It wasn’t offside here. They stopped the video at the wrong point. 

[overtheborder]

15 hours ago, Damien said:

And for the moaning about Harry Smith not getting a ban, this from the whiter than white NRL and Panthers:

Mitch Kenny will miss the Panthers’ season opener against the Storm after being suspended for a “couple Boxing Day lines” social media post.

Kenny was allowed to play in Penrith’s World Club Challenge loss to Wigan last weekend however the NRL have imposed a one game ban and a $10,000 fine.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2024-team-tips-round-1-predicted-sides-injuries-ins-and-outs-suspensions-jarome-luai-fitness-test-dolphins-tom-gilbert-cameron-ciraldo-bulldogs-news/news-story/1bcbeebc3f85a989822c291a5e5dfde8

To be fair there was always going to be leniency when it came to disciplinary issues clashing with the WCC on both sides. On the plus side, it shows both SL and NRL's recognition of the importance of this game, which is a real positive for the match going forward too.

[Exiled Wiganer]

16 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

It was a great game Ginger, but I still feel marred by inadequate reffing to live up to the occasion.

Were you supporting Penrith?

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Were you supporting Penrith?

Not at all, am I telling fibs though when relating to bad reffing decisions?

[Kayakman]

20 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

And also the pass from Keighran to Miski was slightly forward in the build up to the first try !, but slightly forward is still forward, you surprise me being a devotee of match stats that you use that terminology.

It looked good to me Harry...I watched the game and i thought Wigan won fair and square...Lady Luck did smile on them a bit though but we are both old enough to understand that one should never turn from the smile of Lady Luck.

[tuutaisrambo]

On 26/02/2024 at 13:37, WN83 said:

The video ref isn't from Wigan, it was Chris Kendall, who is from Huddersfield.

 

I've seen a lot of people calling out Liam Moore (who is from Wigan) on his decisions but the only thing I saw him get wrong on the night was the ball steal on Harry Smith. He looks at the ball on the floor for the Wardle try and sends it up as a try and he cannot see the ball for the May try at the end and therefore sends it up as a no try and both calls were totally understandable on his part. 

 

In terms of the video refs decisions, there is zero issue with the May one. He cannot overturn that without getting to see it grounded. The Wardle try is the big controversy but I keep seeing people saying it is short of the line and that's not right. It gets to the line but the call is then on it being a double movement or not. I personally would've turned it down but not for it being short and it isn't the sort of obvious double movement you see dozens of time in a season.  The other decision he may have got wrong was the no try on French. Even if both feet have to be behind the ball, I'm not sure how he made that call as quickly as that and that would be given in Superleague without a shadow of a doubt. Maybe he saw the moans and groans incoming from the Wardle decision. 

But the ref was from wigan for a game in wigan featuring wigan...........for a world club final.........you see how that doesn't look great?

Playing devils advocate....if you want a try awarded where there's loads of players in the way.......the ref can just send it up as a try and it won't get overturned unless there's obvious proof to the contrary on video..... and vice versa.

It's a stupid rule........ if the ref isn't sure enough to award a try then the video ref should decide..........it should NOT go up to video ref as a 'Try' or 'No try'.........In other words if the ref isn't sure and video evidence isn't there it should never be a try.........Ref's can always just award a try that is debatable straight away based on what they see.......but this way you'd avoid a try being given where there's zero video evidence for it as was the case with Wardle.

 

Edited February 28 by tuutaisrambo

[tuutaisrambo]

Wigan deserved to win........Penrith looked clunky in attack and obviously didn't prepare well enough.

But you want all the major decisions to be correct in games like these.

[WN83]

6 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

But the ref was from wigan for a game in wigan featuring wigan...........for a world club final.........you see how that doesn't look great?

Playing devils advocate....if you want a try awarded where there's loads of players in the way.......the ref can just send it up as a try and it won't get overturned unless there's obvious proof to the contrary on video..... and vice versa.

It's a stupid rule........ if the ref isn't sure enough to award a try then the video ref should decide..........it should NOT go up to video ref as a 'Try' or 'No try'.........In other worlds if the ref isn't sure and video evidence isn't there it should never be a try.........Ref's can always just award a try that is debatable straight away based on what they see.......but this way you'd avoid a try being given where there's zero video evidence for it as was the case with Wardle.

 

I don't disagree with much of that but the rules were the rules on the night and I stick by the opinion that Moore gets a ball steal wrong and nothing else. If anyone gets anything wrong regarding the trys, it is Kendall on VR duties and not Moore. There are clear images of Wardle having the ball in a position that must be on the line and there are zero images of May doing the same, so he sends them up as you'd expect. Nothing has been made of the French no try but there are images with lines drawn on suggesting Moore probably got that right and Kendall wrong also. 

Take all that away though and going forward I'm with you. There should be refs from as neutral a place as possible and certainly not the town of one of the teams and that should be the case in Superleague as well (and the NRL for that matter) and we should not be sending up trys with a decision attached and we then should decide who gets benefits of the doubt in those cases (attackers or defenders). They're two points I've been vocal on previously, especially when Moore gets us in games against St Helens and in finals. It isn't fair on the guy himself IMO.