The Gap

[marklaspalmas]

Used to be cool. Overpriced T shirts and jeans.

[bratman]

Have to say the difference between the top teams and bottom teams is huge after watching the matches this weekend

[Michael Bates]

The gap will never close under IMG's criteria without drastically changing the funding model. The clubs that are currently in Super League, which are best placed to make money also receive the highest central funding. The only way a championship club gains SL status now is with a wealthy backer to fund all the things they can't afford. It's my understanding that IMG's criteria is to encourage clubs to be self sustainable, but championship sides will never reach Super League without the exact opposite of that.

Edited April 6 by Michael Bates

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, Michael Bates said:

The gap will never close under IMG's criteria without drastically changing the funding. The only way a championship club gains SL status now is with a wealthy backer to fund all the things they can't afford. It's my understanding that IMG's criteria is to encourage clubs to be self sustainable, but championship sides will never reach Super League without the exact opposite of that.

No club is in SL without that and the ones with the poorest backers tend to struggle. 

[Michael Bates]

1 minute ago, bobbruce said:

No club is in SL without that and the ones with the poorest backers tend to struggle. 

So if / when the backers get bored, the game is done as a professional enterprise. The SL clubs should have the ability to do something about this though and become sustainable, but they seem to just spaff it up the wall instead.

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, Michael Bates said:

So if / when the backers get bored, the game is done as a professional enterprise. The SL clubs should have the ability to do something about this though and become sustainable, but they seem to just spaff it up the wall instead.

Yeah pretty much the same for all professional sport. 

[glossop saint]

6 hours ago, Michael Bates said:

The gap will never close under IMG's criteria without drastically changing the funding model. The clubs that are currently in Super League, which are best placed to make money also receive the highest central funding. The only way a championship club gains SL status now is with a wealthy backer to fund all the things they can't afford. It's my understanding that IMG's criteria is to encourage clubs to be self sustainable, but championship sides will never reach Super League without the exact opposite of that.

In what other sport do teams not in the top tier get more central funding than those that are?

[OMEGA]

On 05/04/2024 at 16:11, The Blues Ox said:

Unfortunatley with onfield not really mattering anymore to the majority of the competition it will make it hard to have a really competitive league. Take Hull for instance, total disaster this season on the pitch but in no danger of losing SL status off it, they really should start cutting back where they can to save money and come up with a plan where in 2 or 3 seasons they can have a good crack at making the playoffs for a season or two. 

The quicker the clubs make substantial and permanent improvements to their business models the quicker we’ll get back to on field performances being the most important factor. We have the IMG system because we were in free fall heading for small time oblivion

[Harry Stottle]

On 05/04/2024 at 14:45, sam4731 said:

I've always thought that a good way of judging the health of a sport (professional only) is where a gap starts opening up from the top.

Obviously when everyone was semi pro, things were a lot more competitive going a fair way down the ladder and full time rugby league has pushed that gap further up but in my opinion, that gap,which I would now say, is higher than it's ever been, which is below the top 8 of SL.

At it's most competitive in recent years, I think that the top 4/6 in the Championship were able to beat a fair amount of SL sides, which was around 2017 (which coincided with and was maybe aided by the middle 8s).

Would anyone agree with my assessment and if so what's gone wrong and how do we fix it?

Look at the very recent 'Salary' spend per club on player wages, therein lies your answer.

[Harry Stottle]

On 05/04/2024 at 18:52, gingerjon said:

Yes. They helped lower the standards at the foot of Super League.

How so? And is it better or worse today.

[Archie Gordon]

16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How so? And is it better or worse today.

This season is crying out for a middle 8s. You could see 3 or 4 teams go down - or none. It would be a fantastic month or two of entertainment. 

[The Blues Ox]

17 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

This season is crying out for a middle 8s. You could see 3 or 4 teams go down - or none. It would be a fantastic month or two of entertainment. 

Yeah the quality at the bottom end of SL is so low this season you would have to feel 3 or 4 teams could be in danger. I guess the flip side is that the quality near the top of the Championship outside of the top team is lower than it has been in maybe 4 or 5 years. Not to say the Cahmpionship isn't a great league its just that it is levelling down to be more competitive rather than leveling up like it had done year on year.

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

This season is crying out for a middle 8s. You could see 3 or 4 teams go down - or none. It would be a fantastic month or two of entertainment. 

Being a fan of the club that I am, I have had as much M8 experience as most, I loved them win lose or draw, they were the highlight of the season for me, excitement, expectation, down in the dumps, up in the clouds, I would sooner my club contest relegation with something to play for other than limp along and watch the season drift out, as a fan you need a target in my opinion to play for and contest games where the score is the paramount reason for taking the field,  not ho well it doesn't really matter.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

The 8's were an awful idea, the super 8's were dull, the bottom 8's were irrelevant and the middle 8's were just a car crash. It had the opposite effect on the top championship clubs and bottom SL clubs in looking to build for long term prosperity, instead they loaded up on panic buys.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

The 8's were an awful idea, the super 8's were dull, the bottom 8's were irrelevant and the middle 8's were just a car crash. It had the opposite effect on the top championship clubs and bottom SL clubs in looking to build for long term prosperity, instead they loaded up on panic buys.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Damien]

12 hours ago, Michael Bates said:

The gap will never close under IMG's criteria without drastically changing the funding model. The clubs that are currently in Super League, which are best placed to make money also receive the highest central funding. The only way a championship club gains SL status now is with a wealthy backer to fund all the things they can't afford. It's my understanding that IMG's criteria is to encourage clubs to be self sustainable, but championship sides will never reach Super League without the exact opposite of that.

So like other comparable sports then. RL has a big enough job to close the gap just in SL, never mind trying to do so across 30+ clubs.

[sam4731]

6 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

The 8's were an awful idea, the super 8's were dull, the bottom 8's were irrelevant and the middle 8's were just a car crash. It had the opposite effect on the top championship clubs and bottom SL clubs in looking to build for long term prosperity, instead they loaded up on panic buys.

The teams that finished bottom 4 in the SL that had to load up on panic buys only had themselves to blame. If you don't want jeopardy, do better. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Personally speaking loved the middle 8,s when the Broncos were in the championship it was like being in SL for part of the season without the thrashings:)

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I think the S8s showed there was a real appetite for inter-division competition. 

But I think the consensus by most was 7 weeks + final was too long.

Naturally, we never explored the concept of playoffs between top and bottom clubs again in another form.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

The teams that finished bottom 4 in the SL that had to load up on panic buys only had themselves to blame. If you don't want jeopardy, do better. 

A third of the league (plus the others who finished just above them making it nearly half) was far too many to put in jeopardy though.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I think the S8s showed there was a real appetite for inter-division competition. 

But I think the consensus by most was 7 weeks + final was too long.

Naturally, we never explored the concept of playoffs between top and bottom clubs again in another form.

I can see that, I think there is space for inter divisional competitions. Equally I'm surprised there was no element of play offs explored following the end of the 8s.

Perhaps a 16 team Challenge cup, group stages with 4 championships qualifiers is where the opportunity may lie.

[sam4731]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

A third of the league (plus the others who finished just above them making it nearly half) was far too many to put in jeopardy though.

It's possible to be champions from 6th so why not make it possible to go down from 8th? It's all arbitrary. 

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I think the S8s showed there was a real appetite for inter-division competition. 

But I think the consensus by most was 7 weeks + final was too long.

Naturally, we never explored the concept of playoffs between top and bottom clubs again in another form.

Fair.

I would be almost as excited with a 6-team comp over 5 weeks. But it is the inter-divisional aspect with jeopardy that I feel we have jettisoned in favour of the very slow (and pretty tedious) death of (this year) the bottom 3.

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

The 8's were an awful idea, the super 8's were dull, the bottom 8's were irrelevant and the middle 8's were just a car crash. It had the opposite effect on the top championship clubs and bottom SL clubs in looking to build for long term prosperity, instead they loaded up on panic buys.

This is pretty much it.

They also made SL worse by diverting more money away to prop up full time professional clubs in the Championship in an attempt to make them competitive. Lowering SL standards to enable Championship clubs to compete will never be a good thing for the SL competition or its appeal.

Indeed this whole diminishing of SL subsequently led to drop in the TV deal, SL clubs breaking away and a pretty poor few years with the game then looking to IMG to boost it again.

Edited April 7 by Damien

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

I can see that, I think there is space for inter divisional competitions. Equally I'm surprised there was no element of play offs explored following the end of the 8s.

Perhaps a 16 team Challenge cup, group stages with 4 championships qualifiers is where the opportunity may lie.

Personally, I'd have had top of Championship promoted, and bottom 2 SL clubs enter into the Championship playoffs. One guaranteed relegation, with potential for two.