Page XIII: How to fill Wembley for Challenge Cup finals day

[Rugby League World]

THIS Saturday, Wigan v Warrington in the men’s Challenge Cup final, the women’s showpiece between St Helens and Leeds and the 1895 Cup game between...

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[Gooleboy]

38 minutes ago, Rugby League World said:

THIS Saturday, Wigan v Warrington in the men’s Challenge Cup final, the women’s showpiece between St Helens and Leeds and the 1895 Cup game between...

View the full article

They won't fill it. 60k would be a good gate.

[Damien]

Never had a topic on here like this before, well not this week anyway

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Never had a topic on here like this before, well not this week anyway

I'm wary of clicking on links!  Is it about punishing a deliberate knock on?

[whatmichaelsays]

Quote

we have all the elements for a perfect product

This right here is the start of the problem. 

If you are asking the question as to why even your supposedly most engaged audiences aren't buying your product, then you have to at least start with the notion that the product is, at best, imperfect. At least, it doesn't seem to be good enough to encourage people to travel to see it. 

And you can't solve that problem simply through better salesmanship (the "incentivise the clubs" suggestion) or (ahem) "marketing gurus". If the product isn't something I want to buy, no amount of email spam from Leeds Rhinos, Batley Bulldogs or my local amateur club will change that.

In all of the threads and articles that are posted and printed about how to market the Challenge Cup, few if any seem to start with "step back and lose the 'TGG' hubris". 

As ever when it comes to discussion about marketing RL, nobody wants to confront the most important of the four 'P's. 

[Sports Prophet]

13 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

This right here is the start of the problem. 

If you are asking the question as to why even your supposedly most engaged audiences aren't buying your product, then you have to at least start with the notion that the product is, at best, imperfect. At least, it doesn't seem to be good enough to encourage people to travel to see it. 

And you can't solve that problem simply through better salesmanship (the "incentivise the clubs" suggestion) or (ahem) "marketing gurus". If the product isn't something I want to buy, no amount of email spam from Leeds Rhinos, Batley Bulldogs or my local amateur club will change that.

In all of the threads and articles that are posted and printed about how to market the Challenge Cup, few if any seem to start with "step back and lose the 'TGG' hubris". 

As ever when it comes to discussion about marketing RL, nobody wants to confront the most important of the four 'P's. 

They are reasonable points and definitely worth discussion. What is the product. Are we drilling down to as undefined as “entertainment” or are we being more specific like “top flight UK RL” or especially specific like “Challenge Cup Final”?

Because looking at the “product” as a top flight game of RL, well that product is pretty much every week and the crowds I think are predominantly better than ever. This would suggest the standard of play is fine.

So we really need to drill down into the various elements of this single product ie “The Challenge Cup Final” to identify where the product is failing, if that is what we agree on how it is performing.

[Fevrover]

17 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

They won't fill it. 60k would be a good gate.

Wakefield are going to save the day ,taking 10,000 + which is pretty good for a Championship club.

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Fevrover said:

Wakefield are going to save the day ,taking 10,000 + which is pretty good for a Championship club.

If they do, they will still do well to get 60k.

[Fevrover]

1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

If they do, they will still do well to get 60k.

Yer can't say that !!!

[phiggins]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

They are reasonable points and definitely worth discussion. What is the product. Are we drilling down to as undefined as “entertainment” or are we being more specific like “top flight UK RL” or especially specific like “Challenge Cup Final”?

Because looking at the “product” as a top flight game of RL, well that product is pretty much every week and the crowds I think are predominantly better than ever. This would suggest the standard of play is fine.

So we really need to drill down into the various elements of this single product ie “The Challenge Cup Final” to identify where the product is failing, if that is what we agree on how it is performing.

I think it can be split into long and short term aims. Personally, I think the final is a great occaision, I've been to several since the move back to Wembley and enjoyed every one.

In the short term, RL Commercial, hopefully with some input from IMG, should be doing a better job of selling the event. Last year, it seemed to be that efforts to sell the event in the south was to have BetFred posters at the odd tube station. Nowhere near good enough. We know that there will be tens of thousands of tickets available to neutrals, so materials should be being produced now for the 2025 final, and it should be a bit more imaginative than a Black Friday deal for people that are already in their database.

Longer term, the product of the cup final, is directly related to the product of the whole tournament. And the tournament itself has been largely forgettable. At least last year, the semi finals sparked some interest, but two one sided games this year, following a competition that has had poor TV coverage and poor crowds. Ultimately, the game needs to grow to a point where clubs 13-20 could on a good day, cause a shock against clubs 1-12. The grading system is designed to help with the sport's growth, but will it go beyond the strength of 1-12?

[shaun mc]

Sorting the ticketing policy out would be a start, its hopeless. It seems the RFL are doing their best to put fans off buying tickets with their current strategy

[Hopie]

Maybe they could add a 5th match to the finals day, guffaw

[sam4731]

On 04/06/2024 at 12:51, Dunbar said:

I'm wary of clicking on links!  Is it about punishing a deliberate knock on?

Don't worry, I've done a reccy, the coast is clear. It's just about the merits of a 2 conference system.

[redjonn]

On 04/06/2024 at 14:11, whatmichaelsays said:

This right here is the start of the problem. 

If you are asking the question as to why even your supposedly most engaged audiences aren't buying your product, then you have to at least start with the notion that the product is, at best, imperfect. At least, it doesn't seem to be good enough to encourage people to travel to see it. 

And you can't solve that problem simply through better salesmanship (the "incentivise the clubs" suggestion) or (ahem) "marketing gurus". If the product isn't something I want to buy, no amount of email spam from Leeds Rhinos, Batley Bulldogs or my local amateur club will change that.

In all of the threads and articles that are posted and printed about how to market the Challenge Cup, few if any seem to start with "step back and lose the 'TGG' hubris". 

As ever when it comes to discussion about marketing RL, nobody wants to confront the most important of the four 'P's. 

Hard to disagree, the product needs to improve. By product I include the on the field as well as the wrap around of stadium, ease of access as in things like transport, parking, ticketing, etc... I would include  the on-field aspects such things as salary cap and its  limiting impact on the more financially sustainable clubs.  

Plus you need to look at the higher income commercial aspects of the hospitality facilities, etc. That is the higher income demographics you could attract.

[EggFace]

Just move it up North and it will sell.....Wembley only decent when we had big Boxing shows on.

[Hopie]

There are very few neutrals left in the Rugby League community, the games direction over recent decades has helped ensure that. If we want neutrals to fill the ground then we need to look outside the traditional market, and changing final to finals to try and pad out the attendance is a poor substitute.
 

[Phil W]

Will probably get down for this but here we go.

Don't hold it on the same day as the Premiership Rugby final. Twickenham is sold out and kicks off at exactly the same time. There can't just be me that likes both codes and if marketed properly there's a lot of casual sports fans. 

[redjonn]

2 hours ago, Phil W said:

Will probably get down for this but here we go.

Don't hold it on the same day as the Premiership Rugby final. Twickenham is sold out and kicks off at exactly the same time. There can't just be me that likes both codes and if marketed properly there's a lot of casual sports fans. 

Interesting that the Premiership final has sold out.  In that the RU clubs have similar stadium attendances or not much higher as top RL clubs.  I don't think a few years ago that the Premiership final was a must go event for RU fans.

I'm assuming that majority of attendee's outside of the clubs fans will be relatively local to twickers as in within hour so travel and easily got to.  Maybe ticket pricing is low and not needing any hotel plus a better structure for selling tickets.

Anyway the question is what are they doing doing better than the RFL?

[Gooleboy]

With the RU sold out, hopefully we can get to around the 70k mark so the stadium doesn't look empty.

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

Interesting that the Premiership final has sold out.  In that the RU clubs have similar stadium attendances or not much higher as top RL clubs.  I don't think a few years ago that the Premiership final was a must go event for RU fans.

I'm assuming that majority of attendee's outside of the clubs fans will be relatively local to twickers as in within hour so travel and easily got to.  Maybe ticket pricing is low and not needing any hotel plus a better structure for selling tickets.

Anyway the question is what are they doing doing better than the RFL?

Twickenham/RU is better at selling events than Rl, plenty of people go along no matter what is on show and will have a great time even if they don't watch or understand the sport on the field. 

Whilst it is often annoying to sit near people not watching the match, they still pay the same for tickets which pays for everything else. Demographics obviously helps in this area too.

[SUPERSTUD]

Looks poor crowd on tv yet again. Family members reporting that nearby pubs are charging £10 just to get in before you even buy a drink.

[faithfulbyname]

Just flicked between channels, and Wembley just looks sadly not a patch on Twickenham in terms of crowds

[shaw llewellyn]

It's an embarrassment.  More empty seats than fans. 

[EggFace]

I don't know which I'm embarrassed about more the mass empty seats at Wembley or the dreaded red card for Bath fans at a packed at Twickenham.

[sam4731]

Wanna fill Wembley? Simple answer. It's basic economics, if you're not selling enough, you lower the price. This is London. You charge £15 for a full day out in the sun at Wembley and they'll bite your hand off. I remember going to one of the first Womens FA Cup finals at Wembley and adults were a tenner and kids a fiver. They got over 40,000 and that was well before the boom in English football since the Euros.

Which brings me to another point. Market not as a rugby league game to neutrals but as a day out.