When do we find out the SL teams for next season based on IMG ratings?

[phiggins]

12 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

That would be more of an issue if there were actually going to be unexpected changes which I very much doubt (although I live in hope that there is at least one surprise to send folk into meltdown).

But nothing is a given. Leigh, Wakefield and Castleford have all expressed confidence in increasing their score. But i imagine Toulouse will have done similar updates to their financials as well. Can’t even rule out Salford and Huddersfield being dragged into danger. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

That would be more of an issue if there were actually going to be unexpected changes which I very much doubt (although I live in hope that there is at least one surprise to send folk into meltdown).

Have it on good authority Huyton are back IN :l)

Thats Liverpool sorted.

Now where is my Geoff Fletcher wig:))((

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

This is going to be so much fun.

Especially on this forum

[Agbrigg]

11 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Rubbish John, if Catalan and Toulouse went out of buisness tomorrow like Toronto did, it would not matter a jot to the league still functioning in it's Northern Parochial heartlands.

Regarding Toulouse, I just don't understand all the fuss. Let the French worry about developing their clubs. In my opinion we should be giving London priority over them. They bring far more To our game than Toulouse ever will

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, phiggins said:

I'm amazed that there are people that think that not telling clubs which league they will be in until 4 and a half weeks after their last league game is actually ok.

Perhaps they may be thinking along the lines of the longer they leave it and we are heading into the off season there won't be much of a kerfùful.

 But if a club loses out by a fraction of a point, they will want a recount and full transparency and good luck to them whoever it may be, someone said that it is not in the constitution to legally challenge the decision, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that and if it drags on to hold up the next season in '25 because it has been left so late so be it. But I doubt it will get that far the SL clubs and owners will have IMG consigned to history.

[ATLANTISMAN]

25 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Perhaps they may be thinking along the lines of the longer they leave it and we are heading into the off season there won't be much of a kerfùful.

 But if a club loses out by a fraction of a point, they will want a recount and full transparency and good luck to them whoever it may be, someone said that it is not in the constitution to legally challenge the decision, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that and if it drags on to hold up the next season in '25 because it has been left so late so be it. But I doubt it will get that far the SL clubs and owners will have IMG consigned to history.

Now let's talk about 0.25% for 3 sided LED.

3 clubs are lucky they can use Football Clubs Systems Hull FC/Huddersfield/Wigan/

1 has also 3 sided Leigh

2 clubs have 4 sided Dragons/Leeds 

4 have 1 side Hull KR/Warrington/Salford/London 

1 has a small system 80m St Helens 

1 has non Castleford 

Current cost of a new system is arround 400K (200K just behind the goals)

Everything is made in China current waiting time (Money up front) 10 weeks minimum 

I would also add that due to SKY new football deal with loads of marches from League 1 and League 2 being televised there is a scramble for second hand systems with prices tripling.

 

 

Edited July 22 by ATLANTISMAN

[oiseau]

6 hours ago, PECETTO said:

This match was played in Albi in a 12000 sits stadium and organized by the club of Albi. I was at the sponsor réception and we were 650 belote the match. I rewatch the match today, and the grandstand was 3/4 full. The opposite stand was 1/3 full. The official attendance was 5350 . 

Yep, that was a decent game, I recall John. Davies (I think) scoring for Leigh which was at an important stage of the game. A warm day, I was sat behind Mr Beaumont who got a bit excited.

France played Wales at the same stadium a few years earlier when Bobby Goulding was the French coach. There was a biggish crowd in for that iirc.

[JohnM]

Whatever, whenever, there'll be complaints from an unrepresentative but vociferous minority on here.

Remember, this is last-chance saloon for the sport. Kill the programme now and it'll be back to.part-time pros playing at rickety stadiums with hand-written team sheets being passed round meagre crowds huddled round their trannies listening to Bill Bothwell reading out the half-time scores at the other games. But at least we'd have shown that IMG lot where to get off with their modern ideas and Australian accents.

[phiggins]

5 hours ago, JohnM said:

Whatever, whenever, there'll be complaints from an unrepresentative but vociferous minority on here.

Remember, this is last-chance saloon for the sport. Kill the programme now and it'll be back to.part-time pros playing at rickety stadiums with hand-written team sheets being passed round meagre crowds huddled round their trannies listening to Bill Bothwell reading out the half-time scores at the other games. But at least we'd have shown that IMG lot where to get off with their modern ideas and Australian accents.

If you think that’s the case, then all the more reason to not have a system that is badly designed and poorly executed.

What, in your opinion, will happen under this system that ultimately brings the extra money into the sport required to avoid the scenario that you describe?

[JohnM]

36 minutes ago, phiggins said:

If you think that’s the case, then all the more reason to not have a system that is badly designed and poorly executed.

What, in your opinion, will happen under this system that ultimately brings the extra money into the sport required to avoid the scenario that you describe?

It's a good job we don't have one of those, then, isn't it. The litany of whining from half a dozen naysayers on this forum does not change anything.

[phiggins]

10 minutes ago, JohnM said:

It's a good job we don't have one of those, then, isn't it. The litany of whining from half a dozen naysayers on this forum does not change anything.

Ok, we’ll agree to disagree on that. But I’d be interested to hear your answer to the question that I posted. 

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, JohnM said:

Whatever, whenever, there'll be complaints from an unrepresentative but vociferous minority on here.

Remember, this is last-chance saloon for the sport. Kill the programme now and it'll be back to.part-time pros playing at rickety stadiums with hand-written team sheets being passed round meagre crowds huddled round their trannies listening to Bill Bothwell reading out the half-time scores at the other games. But at least we'd have shown that IMG lot where to get off with their modern ideas and Australian accents.

Not like you to over exaggerate John.

[Harry Stottle]

52 minutes ago, JohnM said:

It's a good job we don't have one of those, then, isn't it. The litany of whining from half a dozen naysayers on this forum does not change anything.

Now I don't do any of the other many Social Media platforms apart from this one John, but I am informed rightly it wrongly, that the opinions of your "half a dozen naysayers" is multiplied to such an extent that there are far many more with those opinions than those in favour of this Re-Imagining programme.

But neither will that change anything, I just wonder what it will be that shows IMG the door, SL Chairmen perhaps? That the sport is not just about 12 clubs? The realisation that below SL the game will just peter away under these methods, maybe these things are of no consequence to the fans of 'Re-imagining' but it matters to some, me included.

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, JohnM said:

Whatever, whenever, there'll be complaints from an unrepresentative but vociferous minority on here.

Just reading back, sorry for the late reply, I honestly did not realise we had delegates or representatives for each side of the divide on this platform, it would be interesting to learn who are those in office.

[bbfaz]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

It's a good job we don't have one of those, then, isn't it. The litany of whining from half a dozen naysayers on this forum does not change anything.

In the wider world, who is a yaysayer?  Who is out there advocating for the IMG system, beyond the usual talking heads.

[fighting irish]

17 hours ago, Eddie said:

To be fair I dont think it’s a huge opportunity for the game either, more a one off with zero benefit afterwards, but it is great that it’s happening; something new and exciting rather than the usual trips along the M62. I thought the same about the Cats v Wigan game at the Nou Camp. 

My hope Eddie, is that if they keep this up for the full 5 years that it will result in bolstering the game in the USA. If it succeeds at that, then we might see the USA becoming a credible opponent for the best Northern Hemisphere teams, including England.

God knows we need it. 

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

My hope Eddie, is that if they keep this up for the full 5 years that it will result in bolstering the game in the USA. If it succeeds at that, then we might see the USA becoming a credible opponent for the best Northern Hemisphere teams, including England.

God knows we need it. 

How long have you got Irish? Albeit it couldn't happen soon enough.

But my mind goes back to Toronto, would you just have a domestic USA comp or have a team(s) the British comp? If they did where would they get the player's from?

Contrary to what a lot of posters on these pages led by Eric Perez said that there is a multitude of 'ready made for RL' athletes just waiting to get the opportunity to play RL, despite all the auditions/trials that took place with Nobby Noble and Paul Rowley not many if any were identified.

Also, America has these strange sports that are very very popular, Gridiron, Baseball, Basketball that are predominantly at the forefront of peoples attention, can RL being foriegn to many really breakthrough, or will it be like in this country where we have tried to take the game to 'Football' mad places and it has fallen flat.

[Click]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

How long have you got Irish? Albeit it couldn't happen soon enough.

But my mind goes back to Toronto, would you just have a domestic USA comp or have a team(s) the British comp? If they did where would they get the player's from?

Contrary to what a lot of posters on these pages led by Eric Perez said that there is a multitude of 'ready made for RL' athletes just waiting to get the opportunity to play RL, despite all the auditions/trials that took place with Nobby Noble and Paul Rowley not many if any were identified.

Also, America has these strange sports that are very very popular, Gridiron, Baseball, Basketball that are predominantly at the forefront of peoples attention, can RL being foriegn to many really breakthrough, or will it be like in this country where we have tried to take the game to 'Football' mad places and it has fallen flat.

Let it go Harry, Toronto are gone, it's ok.

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, bbfaz said:

In the wider world, who is a yaysayer?  Who is out there advocating for the IMG system, beyond the usual talking heads.

I have spoken to many ex players over the last year or so, and I haven't had one of them agree with the way RL is going with this points system.

[fighting irish]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How long have you got Irish? Albeit it couldn't happen soon enough.

But my mind goes back to Toronto, would you just have a domestic USA comp or have a team(s) the British comp? If they did where would they get the player's from?

Contrary to what a lot of posters on these pages led by Eric Perez said that there is a multitude of 'ready made for RL' athletes just waiting to get the opportunity to play RL, despite all the auditions/trials that took place with Nobby Noble and Paul Rowley not many if any were identified.

Also, America has these strange sports that are very very popular, Gridiron, Baseball, Basketball that are predominantly at the forefront of peoples attention, can RL being foriegn to many really breakthrough, or will it be like in this country where we have tried to take the game to 'Football' mad places and it has fallen flat.

In answer to your first question Harry, we could really do with a credible USA international team now, for England's sake.

I don't know how long it will actually take but I do know, it'll take a lot longer if we don't actively encourage their growth and membership of the international RL community. I hope the Las Vegas circus will promote the game over there and accelerate the growth of the domestic game.

To your second question I say (for my part), I'd like to see a domestic USA competition, with the International team drawn from those players.

I don't see a USA team in the Super League as particularly desirable. I'm afraid it might just be a more grandiose version of Fulham, or Celtic Crusaders, or Mansfield marksmen et al, all gloss and no real substance, no foundation, no support. 

We've tried that so many times and failed, it's about time we acknowledged that and set about doing what it really takes to establish and embed the game from the ground up.

However, if it was properly financed, and critically, made welcome rather than suddenly becoming anathema and utterly ostracised by a change of executive control here, then an American club could enhance the appeal and financial future of the Super League. 

Regarding your comments about Eric Perez, let me be unequivocal.

I agree with Perez, there is a multitude of athlete's 'ready made for RL' over there, a literal multitude. No doubt. Now if we are to draw them into our game, they have to have a competition to play in, it may or may not need to be a professional occupation, but inevitably it will move in that direction as it grows. I trust that the game will appeal to a great number of American viewers due to its similarity to Grid Iron and that the opportunity to play for the USA in international competition, including a World Cup, will appeal to many, (enough) players.

I also believe, that if we are going to invest in the game anywhere in the world, then the USA is the country most likely to yield the best return on our investment and I've been calling for it, for years. I think, in particular, we need to draw the best of them, into International competition as soon as possible, not least because we, England, need them.

I'd love to see how a team chosen from the very best of them would perform against say Jamaica, Wales, France then England (in that order). Then imagine a doubling of the domestic game and re-run the experiment.

Lastly, I know there are other sports played there, but perhaps unlike you, I really believe in our product. I also believe if we present ourselves in a professional way, if we market our wares skillfully so we reach our target audience economically and we relate to newcomers with integrity, we can succeed no matter what competition we face in the market place.

Truth is Harry, there are so many would be participants over there, we wouldn't need to make a dent, in the major sports over there to create a sustainable and competitive USA. 

[Harry Stottle]

29 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

In answer to your first question Harry, we could really do with a credible USA international team now, for England's sake.

I don't know how long it will actually take but I do know, it'll take a lot longer if we don't actively encourage their growth and membership of the international RL community. I hope the Las Vegas circus will promote the game over there and accelerate the growth of the domestic game.

To your second question I say (for my part), I'd like to see a domestic USA competition, with the International team drawn from those players.

I don't see a USA team in the Super League as particularly desirable. I'm afraid it might just be a more grandiose version of Fulham, or Celtic Crusaders, or Mansfield marksmen et al, all gloss and no real substance, no foundation, no support. 

We've tried that so many times and failed, it's about time we acknowledged that and set about doing what it really takes to establish and embed the game from the ground up.

However, if it was properly financed, and critically, made welcome rather than suddenly becoming anathema and utterly ostracised by a change of executive control here, then an American club could enhance the appeal and financial future of the Super League. 

Regarding your comments about Eric Perez, let me be unequivocal.

I agree with Perez, there is a multitude of athlete's 'ready made for RL' over there, a literal multitude. No doubt. Now if we are to draw them into our game, they have to have a competition to play in, it may or may not need to be a professional occupation, but inevitably it will move in that direction as it grows. I trust that the game will appeal to a great number of American viewers due to its similarity to Grid Iron and that the opportunity to play for the USA in international competition, including a World Cup, will appeal to many, (enough) players.

I also believe, that if we are going to invest in the game anywhere in the world, then the USA is the country most likely to yield the best return on our investment and I've been calling for it, for years. I think, in particular, we need to draw the best of them, into International competition as soon as possible, not least because we, England, need them.

I'd love to see how a team chosen from the very best of them would perform against say Jamaica, Wales, France then England (in that order). Then imagine a doubling of the domestic game and re-run the experiment.

Lastly, I know there are other sports played there, but perhaps unlike you, I really believe in our product. I also believe if we present ourselves in a professional way, if we market our wares skillfully so we reach our target audience economically and we relate to newcomers with integrity, we can succeed no matter what competition we face in the market place.

Truth is Harry, there are so many would be participants over there, we wouldn't need to make a dent, in the major sports over there to create a sustainable and competitive USA. 

Thanks for the reply Irish, I respect your view.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, bbfaz said:

In the wider world, who is a yaysayer?  Who is out there advocating for the IMG system, beyond the usual talking heads.

This'll do for me. People with a dog in the fight. People in control, investors etc.

Radical new grading criteria proposals for the future of rugby league have been voted through by the Rugby League Council with a large majority.

At a special general meeting in Huddersfield on Wednesday, the Rugby League Council - the sport's decision-making body which comprises representatives from all three professional competitions and the community game - met to vote on the proposals.

A majority from each of the three competitions - Super League, Championship, and League One - were in favour of the changes which will see automatic promotion and relegation to and from the Super League axed from next season.

The initial proposals, presented to clubs in March, outlined plans for teams to be judged not solely by on-field performance, with Super League places from 2025 instead determined based on a club's finances, fanbase size, stadia and catchment area. Teams' social media following, TV viewing figures, ticket sales and stadium big screens would also be factors.

[bbfaz]

It's an argument that has been done to death.  The model for better or worse is basketball in Canada.  Even with very good professional players, they were hopeless internationally.  NBA expansion into Canada was a failure initially, as it was a minority sport at best.  The Grizzlies moved to Memphis.  Toronto got hold of Vince Carter and having a good, marketable young star helped.  Winning helped.

However, what really changed and has led Canada to winning a bronze at the Basketball World Cup and qualifying for the Olympics for the first time in 24 years is widespread, grassroots development, especially in Ontario.  All the best Canadians come out of Ontario with very few exceptions.  The ones who are good in Quebec often get shuffled over to a private school in Ontario.

However, without local players, it's just footsteps in the sand.  MLR shows just how hard finding domestic players is.

[bbfaz]

41 minutes ago, JohnM said:

This'll do for me. People with a dog in the fight. People in control, investors etc.

Radical new grading criteria proposals for the future of rugby league have been voted through by the Rugby League Council with a large majority.

At a special general meeting in Huddersfield on Wednesday, the Rugby League Council - the sport's decision-making body which comprises representatives from all three professional competitions and the community game - met to vote on the proposals.

A majority from each of the three competitions - Super League, Championship, and League One - were in favour of the changes which will see automatic promotion and relegation to and from the Super League axed from next season.

The initial proposals, presented to clubs in March, outlined plans for teams to be judged not solely by on-field performance, with Super League places from 2025 instead determined based on a club's finances, fanbase size, stadia and catchment area. Teams' social media following, TV viewing figures, ticket sales and stadium big screens would also be factors.

Do you have minutes of said meeting?

Also, C&Ping from another website without atrribution is rude.

Edited July 23 by bbfaz

[JohnM]

3 minutes ago, bbfaz said:

Do you have minutes of said meeting?

Also, C&Ping from another website without atrribution is rude.

You want minutes? Buy yourself a club and get some say and influence. Otherwise " commercial in confidence".

Better rude than misguided any day.  

I've had my say, I've expressed my opinion, I stand by it.  I will, though, admit my experience of the sport's death-wish is limited, going back as it does, only 65 years or so.