Migrants

[Clogiron]

Can I be the first to suggest, and it's all my idea, nobody else's, that we build a wall and get France to pay.

[DavidM]

I sympathise with people wanting to escaping truly desperate war torn situations , but if so surely anywhere is paradise . Why go all the way to get here specifically 

[ckn]

17 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I sympathise with people wanting to escaping truly desperate war torn situations , but if so surely anywhere is paradise . Why go all the way to get here specifically 

The people traffickers who make huge amounts of money are happy to sell the story of gold-plated streets, free housing, free money and a life of luxury, if only they'll give them their entire life savings.  These people truly would be better staying in France or Germany than coming here, genuine refugees get treated far better in those countries than here.

[DavidM]

3 minutes ago, ckn said:

The people traffickers who make huge amounts of money are happy to sell the story of gold-plated streets, free housing, free money and a life of luxury, if only they'll give them their entire life savings.  These people truly would be better staying in France or Germany than coming here, genuine refugees get treated far better in those countries than here.

Yeh did I read 30 grand . They’re the real parasites 

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I sympathise with people wanting to escaping truly desperate war torn situations , but if so surely anywhere is paradise . Why go all the way to get here specifically 

That is what I always think. I'm sympathetic to their plight of fleeing a war torn country but once they are in France, Italy etc they have already fled.

[The Future is League]

9 minutes ago, ckn said:

The people traffickers who make huge amounts of money are happy to sell the story of gold-plated streets, free housing, free money and a life of luxury, if only they'll give them their entire life savings.  These people truly would be better staying in France or Germany than coming here, genuine refugees get treated far better in those countries than here.

The problem must be for our border agency staff is spotting the difference between a refuge and an economic migrant.

A vast majority in my opinion are economic migrants, like most are young men.

[DavidM]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

That is what I always think. I'm sympathetic to their plight of fleeing a war torn country but once they are in France, Italy etc they have already fled.

I heard someone on the radio saying when you do that you go from being a migrant to an illegal immigrant 

[Griff9of13]

3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

A vast majority in my opinion are economic migrants, like most are young men.

A trope that's as old as migration itself. If you apply a little thought for longer than a nannosecond it will become obvious why it is, and always has been that way. This sort of migration is very difficult and expensive, therefore a family desperate to get out of their situation only usually have one chance of making it. Therefore they always send the one who has the greatest chance of survival and making it first; the strongest, fittest and most capable first. Once they get to wherever they are aiming for and get themselves settled they then start on the job of getting the rest of the family.

[henage]

I would take my sister/mother/dad/younger brother with me if I had to flee . No question 

[Oxford]

Looking at it from this end .....

[The Future is League]

2 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

A trope that's as old as migration itself. If you apply a little thought for longer than a nannosecond it will become obvious why it is, and always has been that way. This sort of migration is very difficult and expensive, therefore a family desperate to get out of their situation only usually have one chance of making it. Therefore they always send the one who has the greatest chance of survival and making it first; the strongest, fittest and most capable first. Once they get to wherever they are aiming for and get themselves settled they then start on the job of getting the rest of the family.

Economic migrants should go through the proper procedure, and apply properly to come and work here which most of these young men are. They shouldn't be allowed to jump the queue by entering the country illegally.  Refuges is a different matter

[tim2]

1 minute ago, henage said:

I would take my sister/mother/dad/younger brother with me if I had to flee . No question 

Even if you didn't have enough money to give the traffickers? You can't use your life savings twice.

[Oxford]

We don't need a wall we already have one.

[Farmduck]

20 minutes ago, Oxford said:

We don't need a wall we already have one.

I notice Frankie Boyle still managed to get into the BBC studio so clearly your wall needs some work.

[Saintslass]

58 minutes ago, ckn said:

The people traffickers who make huge amounts of money are happy to sell the story of gold-plated streets, free housing, free money and a life of luxury, if only they'll give them their entire life savings.  These people truly would be better staying in France or Germany than coming here, genuine refugees get treated far better in those countries than here.

If indeed the Channel crossing migrants are actually from Iran as it appears they are all claiming then they are not fleeing a war torn country and so can hardly be called refugees.  Also, they have already crossed multiple European countries and so can hardly be genuine asylum seekers either. In addition they have thousands of pounds to pay the traffickers in full knowledge of what they are doing and therefore don't need our help.  The people who need our help, as I have said many times previously on other discussions about this topic on here, are those stuck in camps who have nothing, who actually fled war torn countries, and who are not hiding their identities or paying vast sums to jump the immigration queue in order to get a better life.

[graveyard johnny]

maybe handing out a pamphlet over there showing all the pictures of the homeless in the uk (many migrants) sleeping rough on our streets  might be a mind changer

[Just Browny]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

That is what I always think. I'm sympathetic to their plight of fleeing a war torn country but once they are in France, Italy etc they have already fled.

Agree. Can't think of any reason why they would moan about living in a tent in a country where they don't speak any of the language or recognise the culture.

[ckn]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

If indeed the Channel crossing migrants are actually from Iran as it appears they are all claiming then they are not fleeing a war torn country and so can hardly be called refugees.  Also, they have already crossed multiple European countries and so can hardly be genuine asylum seekers either. In addition they have thousands of pounds to pay the traffickers in full knowledge of what they are doing and therefore don't need our help.  The people who need our help, as I have said many times previously on other discussions about this topic on here, are those stuck in camps who have nothing, who actually fled war torn countries, and who are not hiding their identities or paying vast sums to jump the immigration queue in order to get a better life.

I'd class Iran in its current state as one where I'd be tempted to investigate anyone claiming refugee status given the religious intolerance and state persecution that goes on. It's certainly not a tolerant country

Also, it's worth learning where these people are getting the money from.  Those with something to sell are selling everything they have down to the shirts on their backs.  The far more common story though is one of modern slavery of "loans" where the immigrant "borrows" the money to get here along with a kind guaranteed job with the traffickers, when they get here they find that they could work 16 hour days, 7 days a week and still never reduce their debt because of "interest" and "fees".  They can't go to the police as the police would immediately hand them over to be deported as an illegal immigrant.  The moderately pretty and better looking women get pimped out, the less pretty and the men get everything from drug handling jobs to sold out as job-lots to the less ethical agricultural jobs to working as kitchen cleaners/waiters in tied restaurants.  They then get forced to write letters home saying what a wonderful life they have and encouraging others to come on the same generous "loan" deal.

There is a voracious appetite for illegal workers working cheaply in the UK and doing jobs where that pesky "health and safety" doesn't come into it.

I'd like to see far more done to target the traffickers, and not just lengthy jail sentences for anyone caught trafficking. I'd like to see automatic presumptions of jail sentences for anyone hiring an illegal immigrant who is later found to be under a modern slavery "contract".

[Just Browny]

1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

So why go to another country with the same issues?

I agree it is quite tragic because they will run into many of the same issues. That said, they might know a bit of the language and feel they know the UK better from TV, The Beatles, football etc. 

I think the point about the exploitative gangs has already been made: they will be selling the UK as they have money to make. And think about the perception: we put up the border barriers that don't exist in Europe, so there must be something worth having over here.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Agree. Can't think of any reason why they would moan about living in a tent in a country where they don't speak any of the language or recognise the culture.

But instead go to a different country and have exactly the same issues that you describe. They are also no longer refugees at that point, they are just migrants like everyone else and should go through the same process as any other migrant to enter the UK.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, henage said:

I would take my sister/mother/dad/younger brother with me if I had to flee . No question 

Maybe. But they may not want to come with you. Or they may already be dead.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

If indeed the Channel crossing migrants are actually from Iran as it appears they are all claiming then they are not fleeing a war torn country and so can hardly be called refugees.  Also, they have already crossed multiple European countries and so can hardly be genuine asylum seekers either. In addition they have thousands of pounds to pay the traffickers in full knowledge of what they are doing and therefore don't need our help.  The people who need our help, as I have said many times previously on other discussions about this topic on here, are those stuck in camps who have nothing, who actually fled war torn countries, and who are not hiding their identities or paying vast sums to jump the immigration queue in order to get a better life.

Jesus was very clear that only people who filled in the proper forms deserved any sympathy.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

Come on GJ, it would be a harsh person that has no sympathy for people fleeing in search of a new home but we simply can't just have a free for all.

How much sympathy was displayed in the post I was replying to?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

That's hardly going to discourage people is it? You can't just have a ship rocking up and shouting 'all aboard for the UK' it would be chaos.

Assuming we can handle the security issues what’s the problem with having several thousand people keen to work and earn money arrive in the country?

[gingerjon]

Just now, Johnoco said:

You can have sympathy but not encourage people to just jump on a raft.

Who are they? Why are they wanting to come to the UK? Are they dangerous persons? These are all genuine questions that need answering before anyone is let in the UK. Why should they bother going through immigration if all you need to do is wade over?

I don’t know who they are or what they want to do. Not sure why it’s being assumed that the correct approach is to criminalise them without finding out and then punting them out of the country.