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The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)


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The chief executive of arguably the most successful SL club (Leeds) has thrown his weight behind the new proposals.

 

I'm willing to bet that the gentleman in question knows a hell of a lot more about RL administration than all of the posters on this board combined.

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Where are we going to see this yo-yo system that people talk about because as I see it out of the 8 teams fighting for the four places in the following years SL1 the clever money would be for a return of the bottom four SL teams not the top four Championship teams?

Maybe in an odd year one of the Championship four might just force their way in to the fourth place but there is not going to be wholesale promotion and relegation that some people seem to be envisaging!!!

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.

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Where are we going to see this yo-yo system that people talk about because as I see it out of the 8 teams fighting for the four places in the following years SL1 the clever money would be for a return of the bottom four SL teams not the top four Championship teams?

Maybe in an odd year one of the Championship four might just force their way in to the fourth place but there is not going to be wholesale promotion and relegation that some people seem to be envisaging!!!

 

There's no doubt that there will be an element of yo-yo ing.  But nothing like on the level that the doom mongers are predicting.

 

In the previous preiod of P&R in SL, there's only really Castleford that could be considered anything like a yo yo team

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Actually, it's quite enjoyable stamping your feet and holding your breath because you disagree with things. No wonder you lot kept it up for so long.

Can't wait to boycott my first RFL event.

 

Well played sir

 

I've never been a boycotter, nor have I ever understood them.  I just want what's best for the entire game.  I think this is it, others don't.  Although interestingly, the response on every other forum or facebook site I visit is much more positive than here.  TRL is becoming the place where extremists hang out.

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There has been little actual criticism of the governing body: certainly not the decades if squealing and abuse they received from the backwoods men up until now

It's their job to do as they see fit

I would like to know how the issue that is bound to return of clubs being continuously promoted one year and relegated the next and the debilitating effect it had on the sport, the effect it would have on expansion... A very important issue for me and the return to a game played in a ghetto

The rfl have always thought if all member clubs and been supporting of them especially yours and for instance keighley cougars who wouldn't have a ground if it wasnt for the governing body

As a traditionalist I think this move goes against tradition and is a retrograde reactionary step, for reasons I and others have given

 

There have been times in the past where the game has tried to expand its horizons but has lost nerve when things got challenging. Scrambling to get back to the comfort zone when faced with the difficulties of making rugby league a mainstream sport is traditional.

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That's funny because I am sure he was also behind the licensing system when it appeared.

His job is to keep Leeds at the top of the pile, not worry about the development of the whole game. He would be quite happy to see them at the top of a 6 team SL because that's his job. But one day he will realise that the fishpond is actually pretty small and worse, shrinking.

he's the devil incarnate when it suits

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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Well played sir

 

I've never been a boycotter, nor have I ever understood them.  I just want what's best for the entire game.  I think this is it, others don't.  Although interestingly, the response on every other forum or facebook site I visit is much more positive than here.  TRL is becoming the place where extremists hang out.

Glancing through the club forums on a certain other site I'd suggest most fans are opposed to these changes.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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There have been times in the past where the game has tried to expand its horizons but has lost nerve when things got challenging. Scrambling to get back to the comfort zone when faced with the difficulties of making rugby league a mainstream sport is traditional.

it's what happens MV: it doesn't make it traditional

we have traditions of progressiveness, sadly they get subverted by the forces of reaction

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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If you look at the London youth thread, you'll see exactly why I, as a Saints supporter, want to keep London in SL.  What does it matter to youth development if there are 11 professional SL clubs in a 50 mile radius up north or 10 whereas losing the sole professional youth development system for everything south of the midlands will be a disaster for the sport.

 

Read that thread.  Read the names on there.  They're all in our sport at the highest end because of the London Broncos and the other lower-league clubs in the south.  You need a multi-tiered setup of clubs to take players of all talents and create a talent ladder.  But for the Broncos being at the peak of that ladder then many of those names would either be lost to rugby league or sport entirely.

 

Even if that were the only reason to keep some form of protected licensing then that would do for me.  It's not though.

 

(I posted this here as I really don't want the London thread dragged into a third open and quite negative debate)

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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There have been times in the past where the game has tried to expand its horizons but has lost nerve when things got challenging. Scrambling to get back to the comfort zone when faced with the difficulties of making rugby league a mainstream sport is traditional.

Absolutely. I bang on about the spread and popularity of rugby league at work and to my friends and family. I think I'm just going to keep my mouth shut from now on and concede that's it's always going to be a Northern game for Northern people.

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Well hasn't this forum turned into a doom and gloom fest!  It would appear after all that the cosy franchise system which the majority on here support due to having a club safely tucked inside it is to be no more.  Reading some of the comments on here though the franchise system was working and apparently the RFL are changing just to please a few disgruntled supporters like me, that's a kind of paranoia I have been accused of in the past.  Even when SL clubs themselves vote to end the ridiculous system some forum members still deny that it has been a complete failure.

 

It is amazing how the RFL so loyaly backed by many members on here are all of a sudden lunatics running an asylum.  How many times have I been called a doom merchant and accused of only caring about my own club.  Well just take a look at this forum it really is very sad how many hypercritical comments have been posted.  

 

I have really enjoyed Mr Sadler scurrying around peddling his propaganda garbage in his paper which only makes me even more happier that I decided to boycott his rag a long time ago. We also had had the Widnes chairman Mr O'Connor putting his weight behind franchising, no surprise really he milked the system for all it was putting a team out in the Championship that was not worthy of such a great club, just because he got the nod from the RFL that SL was his.  My favourite is probably Tony Smith's comments a few week back, here we have a good coach that was aided with the lack of P&R when he was learning his trade at Huddersfield.  His reasons though are priceless, apparently it will stop young British players players getting there chance in the first team because clubs will be under pressure to survive P&R, remind me how old there Warrington's Aussie full back is?  

 

I am personally really pleased with the recent developments and I feel like the RFL are finally going down the road of thinking about all member clubs again.  I really hope that the split into 3 leagues is voted through.  Either way I almost feel part of the game again and I am even starting to take an interest in the world cup.

 

Cheer up everyone, what goes around comes around  :tongue:

 

We haven't had a system of franchising in British/European rugby league. Who knows, we might have fared better if we'd introduced such a system.

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Absolutely. I bang on about the spread and popularity of rugby league at work and to my friends and family. I think I'm just going to keep my mouth shut from now on and concede that's it's always going to be a Northern game for Northern people.

a minority northern game for a minority of northern people

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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I am a supporter of a championship club and a supporter of licensing.

If the RFL go back to P+R (1 up, 1 down with minimum standards) I await with trepidation the first court case when a club is refused promotion (see London Welsh in RU), the first club to go into admin / liquidation chasing the promotion place, the moaning about the inevitable parachute payment for the relegated club allowing them to outspend the other clubs etc. etc.

If we go to 3x8 the finances of clubs will be all over the place - spectators won't know what their fixtures are going to be, nothing much will really change except that having to spread the money around more clubs will cause more players to leave for RU and the NRL (actually, the latter is a decent side effect from a supporter of the international game). This is an option so "out there" that even Scottish football rejected it. All to appease a few poorly run clubs.

When one of these happens I will not go banging on about it on every thread regardless of its OP, I will not boycott RFL events and I will continue to watch games live and on TV. Anything else really is "Sid and Doris".

I have other issues with the administration of the game that go far deeper than bitching about which professional (and I use the word loosely) club gets preferential treatment form the RFL.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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I am a supporter of a championship club and a supporter of licensing.

If the RFL go back to P+R (1 up, 1 down with minimum standards) I await with trepidation the first court case when a club is refused promotion (see London Welsh in RU), the first club to go into admin / liquidation chasing the promotion place, the moaning about the inevitable parachute payment for the relegated club allowing them to outspend the other clubs etc. etc.

If we go to 3x8 the finances of clubs will be all over the place - spectators won't know what their fixtures are going to be, nothing much will really change except that having to spread the money around more clubs will cause more players to leave for RU and the NRL (actually, the latter is a decent side effect from a supporter of the international game). This is an option so "out there" that even Scottish football rejected it. All to appease a few poorly run clubs.

When one of these happens I will not go banging on about it on every thread regardless of its OP, I will not boycott RFL events and I will continue to watch games live and on TV. Anything else really is "Sid and Doris".

I have other issues with the administration of the game that go far deeper than bitching about which professional (and I use the word loosely) club gets preferential treatment form the RFL.

me too

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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The chief executive of arguably the most successful SL club (Leeds) has thrown his weight behind the new proposals.

 

I'm willing to bet that the gentleman in question knows a hell of a lot more about RL administration than all of the posters on this board combined.

Whilst I agree with you in principle, I'm not sure you are now in a position to use this argument, as he was 100% behind the old structure when that was introduced and you disagreed with that.

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How many court cases did we see when this structure was last in place?

 

How many clubs did we see going bust? More or less than now?

 

After 21 pages I still haven't seen any calming down and the debate becoming sensible.

 

Somebody claiming this is the worst decision in the history of the sport is a perfect example of the hysteria.

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I've watched Rugby League since the early 1950's, through an era where 36,000 (and more) would watch the game, very often in midweek. I have seen crowds slowly diminish in size over the decades, and the bedrock clubs become almost extinct (some totally). It would seem that every time the RFL makes a change, the game loses more supporters. Without the supporters the game will die. So I would suggest that the BEST change the game should make is the management.

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I've watched Rugby League since the early 1950's, through an era where 36,000 (and more) would watch the game, very often in midweek. I have seen crowds slowly diminish in size over the decades, and the bedrock clubs become almost extinct (some totally). It would seem that every time the RFL makes a change, the game loses more supporters. Without the supporters the game will die. So I would suggest that the BEST change the game should make is the management.

But whilst that is a nice soundbite, it simply isn't true.

 

We have also had loads of different management structures in place since the early 50's/.

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it's what happens MV: it doesn't make it traditional

we have traditions of progressiveness, sadly they get subverted by the forces of reaction

 

I think they're different aspects of the same tradition. The periodic realisation that we are not like other sports in that we're largely restricted to a few (very few) northern towns and a limited demographic; radical attempts to try and rectify the situation, usually ad-hoc, badly planned and underfunded; panic when things don't go to plan; the retreat back to what we had (the state of which was the reason to change in the first place).

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I've watched Rugby League since the early 1950's, through an era where 36,000 (and more) would watch the game, very often in midweek. I have seen crowds slowly diminish in size over the decades, and the bedrock clubs become almost extinct (some totally). It would seem that every time the RFL makes a change, the game loses more supporters. Without the supporters the game will die. So I would suggest that the BEST change the game should make is the management.

 

There are a lot more than 36,000 watching the game these days.

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I didn't compare it, I said they have it. You say sport needs ups and downs yet the NFL are exempt from it in your view.

The only clubs that will win the PL (not lower divisions or the now derided FA cup) is Man United. ..possibly Chelsea...maybe Man City and Arsenal. Wow, that's really exciting

It's a good point that has anthother slant.

Before SL how many clubs could win the league? Let's be honest it was one, with an occasional blip.

Today, right now, who is going to win SL this year?

Warriors

Rhinos

Dragons

Giants

Wolves

Someone said it's about excitement. Not only have we got the above, but there's about a five horse race for the last play-off spots.

Also, I'd say youth development has increased massively since the inception of SL and as a direct result of it through the knowledge that clubs can plan for the long term. Also, it guarantees the presence of a club in London and France. Both very important for our game when taking the long view.

Forever in our shadow, forever on your mind.

 

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How is contracting the game good for it? I aren't talking about the top level either but the mentality that removes development officers and thinks it is worth saving a few quid?

IMO, we are going back to a 'keep it local' way of thinking, which without wanting to be accused of melodrama, I want nothing to do with.

 

Well, that's a point. We're potentially taking money from the elite competition to subsidise second tier clubs in their attempt to become (unsustainable) full-time clubs. Wouldn't that money be better being diverted towards keeping at least some of the development officers?

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