Olney defeats Goldsmith in Richmond Park by-election

[Just Browny]

I'll caveat that particular part Saintslass as well considering I still consider 13k people a big number.

 

For God's sake don't let it be known that South Holland got a vote in the referendum. The Express will do another of those 'WE MUST GET OUT OF THE EU' front pages.

[Niels]

To me it is interesting seeing how easily the voters principles switched. They didn't have any loyalty towards the MP who had resigned and campaigned on their behalf with regard to the runway.

The Liberals as usual were opportunistic and offered the electorate everything they wanted and won.

It would have been interesting if Labour and not the Lib Dems had campaigned on a runway/brexit platform. That would have been a dilemma I suspect.

[Griff9of13]

The 'I've got friends ...' argument really isn't an argument.

 

Frankly, if anyone voted to leave the EU solely because they thought £350 million was going to go to the NHS then either they weren't that bright or they didn't do much reflecting in the weeks running up to the vote.  How did they think everything else was going to be funded?  Via the magic money tree?

 

I said this before; if the 350 million thing for the NHS was such an "irrelevance" why did Leave go to such lengths to push it as a message?

 

 

[Bob8]

Sleaford, one of the safest Conservative seats in the country, can't imagine much of a shock on the cards?

 

The MP whose resignation triggered this election has taken on a paid office of the crown to which both David Cameron & Gerry Adams have been appointed in recent years.

 

It is hard to imagine that Sleaford is anything bu Leave

[Bob8]

The outcome didn't surprise me tbh given that the LibDems cleverly decided they would like to rerun the referendum vote, Richmond voted remain in massive numbers and it has been LibDem before.  Goldsmith didn't have a chance once the LibDems went with that policy.  He was a first class idiot to resign in the first place and he's given a kicking to his own party. 

 

I would agree with the LibDem leader when he says the LibDems are back.  They are back as the party of protest, which is all they ever were anyway.

I am surprised you did not mention you saw this coming before the election.

[RidingPie]

One stat that Farron came out with I would particularly like to see the data for! Apparently 1/3 of conservative leave voters switched to lib dem. If that's true I suspect a few people will be concerned.

I'd like to see the evidence though.

[tim2]

One stat that Farron came out with I would particularly like to see the data for! Apparently 1/3 of conservative leave voters switched to lib dem. If that's true I suspect a few people will be concerned.

I'd like to see the evidence though.

 

He probably made that up on the spot, like 87% of all statistics.

[Tommygilf]

Has anyone heard the interview the new MP did with Talk Radio? Or rather non-interview?

Got pulled off mid interview by her PR team.

Granted I think it was Julia Hartley Brewer that was interviewing her, but the flaws in the 2nd referendum argument were painfully exposed.

[ckn]

One thing this has done is made me realise that my vote isn't irrelevant.  Until this morning, if there had been a general election today then I'd probably have not voted, today I'd have voted Lib Dem.  I've come to the conclusion that the Brexiteer voters are happy to watch the world burn to get their particular, and usually personally unique, views of the world enacted.  With that in mind, I'll happily vote to watch the Tory party disintegrate and damn the consequences.  If that means we elect a Parliament that votes down leaving the EU then damn the referendum as well.  It's fair game for the Brexiteers to want to throw the country to the wolves so I'm happy to join in.

 

What last night really means is that there's no General Election until after we leave the EU, May wouldn't risk it with a wafer thin majority.

[Saintslass]

I take your point about the word 'all' but few areas on either side had such a split and it also depends on the size of the voting area. South Holland which I think was around 75% has a much smaller population (less than 50k) than let's say Liverpool, Southampton or Shropshire. Nearly 40k voters wanted to remain in St Helens for example or 110k in Sheffield or 50k in Southampton or 80k in Shropshire. They are big numbers of people. Yes it doesn't mean anything to the result but in many areas, there are big numbers of potentially disenfranchised voters. That's indisputable and replicated across the entire county.

Why disenfranchised?  Are voters disenfranchised during a general election, simply because they are on the losing side?  No.  So why are they disenfranchised because they are on the losing side in the EU referendum?

[Trojan]

I watched Question Time last night and there was a very articulate guy on who was insisting that any discussion of the single market was anti democratic, "we" had voted to come out of the single market.  Well I for one didn't vote out.  And there are another 16m like me who didn't vote out.  The vote was not decisive as such an irrevocable vote should have been.  There are a large minority of people in this country who wanted to stay, and surely any government must take these people's views into account.  So no, discussion about Brexit should continue until we have something that suits all.  The problem of course is that like everything else Cameron did it's a total cockup.  A larger majority should have been required for such a momentous decision and I reckon May should take this into account.

[Saintslass]

Scarily, many of the hardcore Brexiters see it as right and proper that Europe is at constant war with itself. As far as they are concerned, 71 years of peace is a breakdown of the proper order and it is about time the Frogs and the Hun gave us a proper reason to hate them again.

What a completely ridiculous thing to say, but such posts as these sum up the attitude of remoaners since they lost the referendum. 

[Trojan]

Why disenfranchised?  Are voters disenfranchised during a general election, simply because they are on the losing side?  No.  So why are they disenfranchised because they are on the losing side in the EU referendum?

If they are on the losing side in a General Election there is a chance that at the next election they'll be on the winning side, if things go as they seem ot be going, the large minority who voted in will get no concessions from May & co.

[Saintslass]

I watched Question Time last night and there was a very articulate guy on who was insisting that any discussion of the single market was anti democratic, "we" had voted to come out of the single market.  Well I for one didn't vote out.  And there are another 16m like me who didn't vote out.  The vote was not decisive as such an irrevocable vote should have been.  There are a large minority of people in this country who wanted to stay, and surely any government must take these people's views into account.  So no, discussion about Brexit should continue until we have something that suits all.  The problem of course is that like everything else Cameron did it's a total cockup.  A larger majority should have been required for such a momentous decision and I reckon May should take this into account.

You'll never get something that suits all.

 

I watched Question Time last night too.  Very pro brexit audience.  Still pro brexit after all this time and in spite of some remoaners wanting to believe that all the leave voters are changing their minds in droves!

[Saintslass]

If they are on the losing side in a General Election there is a chance that at the next election they'll be on the winning side, if things go as they seem ot be going, the large minority who voted in will get no concessions from May & co.

And that makes a difference why exactly?

 

Parliament approved the EU referendum legislation by a majority of 6-1 in favour; MPs also are on record as saying they would respect the outcome of the vote.  There was no amendment from either house in relation to how big the gap between the winners and losers had to be before the vote was considered legit and so in all respects the vote was democratic, it was decisive and it was based upon the biggest voter turnout in British political history.

[Trojan]

You'll never get something that suits all.

 

I watched Question Time last night too.  Very pro brexit audience.  Still pro brexit after all this time and in spite of some remoaners wanting to believe all the leave voters are changing their minds in droves!

It was from Wakefield, one of the solid Labour areas that voted for Brexit,in the flawed belief that all their problems were being caused by the EU and not the Tory government.

[Trojan]

And that makes a difference why exactly?

 

Parliament approved the EU referendum legislation by a majority of 6-1 in favour; MPs also are on record as saying they would respect the outcome of the vote.  There was no amendment from either house in relation to how big the gap between the winners and losers had to be before the vote was considered legit and so in all respects the vote was democratic, it was decisive and it was based upon the biggest voter turnout in British political history.

Just remind me, who was PM at the time?

[Griff9of13]

What a completely ridiculous thing to say, but such posts as these sum up the attitude of remoaners since they lost the referendum.

It would be ridiculous if so many people didn't think that way and express their thoughts with regular monotony whenever anyone dares to say anything remotely pro EU. Just take a look on Twitter, Facebook and the comments sections of news sites.

[ckn]

It would be ridiculous if so many people didn't think that way and express their thoughts with regular monotony whenever anyone dares to say anything remotely pro EU. Just take a look on Twitter, Facebook and the comments sections of news sites.

Also, I've had my entire adult life spent hearing and reading whining anti-EU people, it's about time they heard the pro-EU people whine back. Does anyone really believe the Kippers would have gone "fair play, you won" and given up complaining if the result had been 52:48 the other way?

[Trojan]

Also, I've had my entire adult life spent hearing and reading whining anti-EU people, it's about time they heard the pro-EU people whine back. Does anyone really believe the Kippers would have gone "fair play, you won" and given up complaining if the result had been 52:48 the other way?

Farage more or less said as much in the campaign.

[Griff9of13]

Farage more or less said as much in the campaign.

Farage said an outcome of 52:48 would be "unfinished business" just days before the day of the referendum.

[RidingPie]

You'll never get something that suits all.

I watched Question Time last night too. Very pro brexit audience. Still pro brexit after all this time and in spite of some remoaners wanting to believe that all the leave voters are changing their minds in droves!

The above is the very definition of an anecdotal argument. At least I had the good grace to admit I was using one.

[gingerjon]

Also, I've had my entire adult life spent hearing and reading whining anti-EU people

 

This, entirely this.

 

A bigger munch of moaning cry-babies than the wafer-thin-skinned anti-EU crowd you'd be hard pressed to find.

[gingerjon]

Farage said an outcome of 52:48 would be "unfinished business" just days before the day of the referendum.

 

To be fair, he also said it when the first exit poll showed a 52:48 remain vote.

 

So he still had that opinion when the polls closed.

 

That's consistency.

[RidingPie]

Leave had to win a referendum. Remain had to win all of them.