New York City & Dublin to join the league?

[londonrlfan]

32 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

A point made on the other expansion threads , but often ignored 

Everybody wants expansion , as long as they ( club usually ) are part of it 

Not really. I'd love Broncos to get back in SL, but if it was between us and Toronto, then I'd rather Toronto went up as it would do a lot more for the sport. The idea is to eventually have a North American league, you can't do that with two teams and starting one from scratch won't work. It's not to replace all the SL teams with North American teams, otherwise it wouldn't be the RFL's league anymore. 

[damp squib]

9 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

Personally I think Ireland is a waste of time. They're not interested and there's too much RL hatred ingrained in them to make it work. Plus it's a 4 million population and GAA, soccer and union to compete with. Just because union is popular in a country, it doesn't mean we have to have teams there. Canada, USA and France should be development targets. 

The hatred is only from the dyed in the wool union fans, of whom there are few. The rest don't know RL exists.

[yipyee]

9 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

Personally I think Ireland is a waste of time. They're not interested and there's too much RL hatred ingrained in them to make it work. Plus it's a 4 million population and GAA, soccer and union to compete with. Just because union is popular in a country, it doesn't mean we have to have teams there. Canada, USA and France should be development targets. 

The thing is the RFL no longer target expansion per say.... they have historically in places they thought it would take off....

However this is a franchise (so to speak) targeting league1. This is driven by an Irish consortium... the RFL has in recent times got a good history of making sure expansion clubs have their ducks in a row.

If the Irish RL are behind the bid it should succeed. 

There is no need to think every new club NEEDS to be a SL giant. 

League1 or championship is fine if that's their level!

There are 5 clubs from the isle of man playing in the lower leagues of RU

No one is expecting them to be premiership clubs with crouds of 20k!!!

[DoubleD]

10 hours ago, Plan of Attack said:

For your information the barrow players had to use FOUR days last time and probably the same this time and if you are in a job where you only get 10 floating days then it IS an issue. you try telling your partner you cannot go on a family holiday because some d***head in the RFL makes you play the same team TWICE away... In farness why dont Toronto come to Barrow for this match? and NO we don't want a second overseas team as the fans just cant afford this sort of shenanigans each year

 

Just a thought but why don't some of the players take their partners/families over for the trip and make it an extended holiday? It's heavily subsidised and they can enjoy a beautiful part of the world, to which they may not ordinarily be able to afford. I know I do it when I go away for work abroad somewhere nice for any length of time

[JoneslessBishop]

Plan of Attack (suitably aggressive name) does however make a valid point that maybe additional teams from North America should maybe not come in at league 1 level. Given the restructuring considerations that are on-going, I am sure that is the case. Toronto have been a breath of fresh air to RL and League 1. They have ensured TV exposure every week to a division that otherwise would not have had, regularly provided the highest home gate of the season despite very few away fans at League 1 clubs (see York last weekend), and provided a once in a life time trip for players and fans at this level. Great proof of concept. 

However, 2 trips is a bit much, and the championship, post restructure, with bigger budgets and more full time players, is probably where Montreal and NYC should go, if not SL, although that would maybe be unfair on ambitious current Championship clubs. The Championship would ensure new transatlantic teams are viable and would only 'delay the inevitable' by a year or 2 if they are as well resources as hoped.

League 1 would be the right place for an Irish team though, as less jet lag and travel commitment, and organic growth more important there. Ferry journeys doable at that level and maybe a tie in with an airline a la Toronto is not inconceivable should they start climbing the league pyramid.

 

[JonM]

4 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Just a thought but why don't some of the players take their partners/families over for the trip and make it an extended holiday? It's heavily subsidised and they can enjoy a beautiful part of the world, to which they may not ordinarily be able to afford. I know I do it when I go away for work abroad somewhere nice for any length of time

Depends on your circumstances, doesn't it? I often do the same when I travel abroad for work, but if you're say a teacher (or your other half is) and have no control over when you can have a day off? Or if you're self-employed and don't earn anything if you don't work?

The L1 fixture structure should really have been looked at more closely before Toulouse entered, let alone Toronto. A second foreign trip at short notice isn't ideal.

[yipyee]

21 hours ago, Bazzer said:

I hope enough teams in north America and Canada join our british league and all the top teams at the moment have to be relegated to championship league. All you so called supporters of expansion will soon cry enough is enough. As long as your team is not threatened you are OK with whatever is put forward as good for the game.

If your in the bottom league a million clubs could come in and you will still be in the bottom league, I dont get what your whinging about.... FWIW the top clubs are competitive with the Aussies, so I dont see them all being relegated!

[yipyee]

10 hours ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Plan of Attack (suitably aggressive name) does however make a valid point that maybe additional teams from North America should maybe not come in at league 1 level. Given the restructuring considerations that are on-going, I am sure that is the case. Toronto have been a breath of fresh air to RL and League 1. They have ensured TV exposure every week to a division that otherwise would not have had, regularly provided the highest home gate of the season despite very few away fans at League 1 clubs (see York last weekend), and provided a once in a life time trip for players and fans at this level. Great proof of concept. 

However, 2 trips is a bit much, and the championship, post restructure, with bigger budgets and more full time players, is probably where Montreal and NYC should go, if not SL, although that would maybe be unfair on ambitious current Championship clubs. The Championship would ensure new transatlantic teams are viable and would only 'delay the inevitable' by a year or 2 if they are as well resources as hoped.

League 1 would be the right place for an Irish team though, as less jet lag and travel commitment, and organic growth more important there. Ferry journeys doable at that level and maybe a tie in with an airline a la Toronto is not inconceivable should they start climbing the league pyramid.

 

Why would it be 2 trips? You don't think Toronto will go up?

The situation is laughable, 

Clubs should play up the structure was the battle cry, now they do flat cappers are crying into their light ales!!!

[Seaton Sandy]

I'm warming to the Belfast option. Just think of the marketing angles now that the D.U.P. hold sway in matters U.K.! " Arlene for R.L.--- the future's Orange ( strip colours inevitable) --- marching to victory ". A vociferous following sporting their bowler hats with patriotic fervour.  Way to go!!

[DoubleD]

11 hours ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Plan of Attack (suitably aggressive name) does however make a valid point that maybe additional teams from North America should maybe not come in at league 1 level. Given the restructuring considerations that are on-going, I am sure that is the case. Toronto have been a breath of fresh air to RL and League 1. They have ensured TV exposure every week to a division that otherwise would not have had, regularly provided the highest home gate of the season despite very few away fans at League 1 clubs (see York last weekend), and provided a once in a life time trip for players and fans at this level. Great proof of concept. 

However, 2 trips is a bit much, and the championship, post restructure, with bigger budgets and more full time players, is probably where Montreal and NYC should go, if not SL, although that would maybe be unfair on ambitious current Championship clubs. The Championship would ensure new transatlantic teams are viable and would only 'delay the inevitable' by a year or 2 if they are as well resources as hoped.

League 1 would be the right place for an Irish team though, as less jet lag and travel commitment, and organic growth more important there. Ferry journeys doable at that level and maybe a tie in with an airline a la Toronto is not inconceivable should they start climbing the league pyramid.

 

And how do you draw the line between deciding who goes in which league? And what happens if the team automatically put in Championship get relegated first season? League 1 is definitely the best place for any new club

[DoubleD]

8 hours ago, JonM said:

Depends on your circumstances, doesn't it? I often do the same when I travel abroad for work, but if you're say a teacher (or your other half is) and have no control over when you can have a day off? Or if you're self-employed and don't earn anything if you don't work?

The L1 fixture structure should really have been looked at more closely before Toulouse entered, let alone Toronto. A second foreign trip at short notice isn't ideal.

Very true and I tend to agree but it works both ways. Toulouse players are in the same situation as would any non full time Toronto players based there. If players can't make it due to other commitments then so be it. No club is going to have a full team available all the time, due to suspensions, injuries etc. It really is a mountain made out a molehill 

[Bob8]

On 2/8/2017 at 0:32 AM, Bazzer said:

I hope enough teams in north America and Canada join our british league and all the top teams at the moment have to be relegated to championship league. All you so called supporters of expansion will soon cry enough is enough. As long as your team is not threatened you are OK with whatever is put forward as good for the game.

I understand your point.  

Toronto or Montreal joining might make Super League stronger and the game stronger, but it has an adverse effect on Leigh and Wakefield and not on Leeds and Wigan.  

I understand that. 

I am not a fan of Leeds or Wigan and I still think it is better for the game overall.  

Just because you are narrow minded and parochial does not mean everyone else is too.

Do you think Chesterfield FC fans are typically envious of rugby league as they could be big club if only soccer collapsed?  How many of them oppose soccer being a global game?  I imagine very few.

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I understand your point.  

Toronto or Montreal joining might make Super League stronger and the game stronger, but it has an adverse effect on Leigh and Wakefield and not on Leeds and Wigan.  

I understand that. 

I am not a fan of Leeds or Wigan and I still think it is better for the game overall.  

Just because you are narrow minded and parochial does not mean everyone else is too.

Do you think Chesterfield FC fans are typically envious of rugby league as they could be big club if only soccer collapsed?  How many of them oppose soccer being a global game?  I imagine very few.

Are Chesterfield artificially barred from displacing Chelsea in the Premiership ? 

[Bob8]

54 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Are Chesterfield artificially barred from displacing Chelsea in the Premiership ? 

Which has nothing to do with anything.

Are you after an award for pointlessness?

Here is another question for you.  Does the Premier League struggle to get a sponsor?   Does the Premier League struggle for coverage or commerical relevence outside of spots of the North of England?

Look hard and get out of your dream world.  

But to answer your question.  It depends.  They would have to fulifll certain minimum criteria.  Fortunately, soccer has many, many clubs that are viable Premiership clubs.  Rugby league is not in a comparable position.  

To apply it to Super League, who is barred?  There is some debate that Toronto should be barred.  I have not heard many argue that any other club should be barred, providing they have the backing.

So, are you for barring clubs or against it?

[JoneslessBishop]

Double D, drawing the line would be done by the RFL. They set minimum standards for clubs joining at Championship level (this would only be NYC against my proposed clubs). Essentially they can subsidize the flights of their opponents, a la Toronto, and ring a broadcast deal to be shared.

 

if a club gets relegated, they get relegated. They would have to commit to fulfilling fixtures in any league and providing the above broadcast deal and travel subsidy as per above, via a deposit, funds in escrow, for 2 years until 20121 (if 2019 is the target date for them to in), when the broadcast deal would be up to allow for the SL-SL2 restructure.

 

The deal should be before 2018 fixtures come out, so Champ and League 1 teams know how many teams will go up and down at the end of the season.

[owls]

can we please stop saying soccer, we aren't American, its football the national game whether we like it or not,

[Bearman]

5 minutes ago, owls said:

can we please stop saying soccer, we aren't American, its football the national game whether we like it or not,

I'm not American and I have been using the word soccer for as long as I can remember.

Hull Football Club and Coventry Rugby Football Club play two different forms of football, neither of which is the game known by the slang abbreviation for Association Football.

Say soccer and I immediately know which football code you are talking about.

 

[burnleywelsh]

13 minutes ago, owls said:

can we please stop saying soccer, we aren't American, its football the national game whether we like it or not,

"Soccer AM is a British Saturday-morning football-based comedy/talk show, predominantly based around the Premier League" Look, even the Brits call it soccer. 

 

[Bob8]

1 minute ago, burnleywelsh said:

"Soccer AM is a British Saturday-morning football-based comedy/talk show, predominantly based around the Premier League" Look, even the Brits call it soccer.

Indeed, and it seems soccer was a British word before it was North American. 

[owls]

go on the Holt End at Villa, the Gallowgate at Newcastle, Stretford End at Manchester,

call it soccer there and you will be lynched,

I am in my 50s and soccer has NEVER been used by anyone I know of,

[Tre Cool]

48 minutes ago, owls said:

can we please stop saying soccer, we aren't American, its football the national game whether we like it or not,

It is soccer.  My Grandad called it soccer his whole life and he was a Burnley fan.  Football could be any number of codes and to me it's the code of football you like the most.  So not soccer.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Both words refer to the same thing, but one is definitely used less than the other by fans of the sport in the UK.

I suspect 'Soccer Saturday', 'Soccer AM' sounds better than 'Football Saturday' and 'Football AM' that's why they were given the nod by Sky.

It's interesting to notice they're not branding their new football channels as 'soccer channels'.

In my experience most football fans use the word 'football' to describle, erm, football.

[owls]

Association football, English Football league, Scottish FA, Welsh FA , FA CUP,

UEFA,FIFA

I could go on and on,  all football, no soccer anywhere,

 

 

[Bob8]

39 minutes ago, owls said:

go on the Holt End at Villa, the Gallowgate at Newcastle, Stretford End at Manchester,

call it soccer there and you will be lynched,

I am in my 50s and soccer has NEVER been used by anyone I know of,

Yes.

Go to a specifically to an area dedicated to one specific form of football and they mean a particular type of football when they say "football".

[Bob8]

2 minutes ago, owls said:

Association football, English Football league, Scottish FA, Welsh FA , FA CUP,

UEFA,FIFA

I could go on and on,

Yes.  FA.  As in Association Football.

As in soccer.

Meanwhile. 

CFL.  NFL.  AFL.