Your England 24 man squad and starting 17

[redjonn]

England may have only one game pre-playing Australia in the first game. The result of which is a massive decider on the easier route and maybe only route for England to get to the final.  Surely this has to be a factor on how many players are chosen that have not had a chance already to be in the England team/set-up - unless showing absolutely poor form.   

Do you take a chance on somebody fitting into quickly to whatever the team structures and forming good playing partnerships, or take the chance on somebody maybe not at the top of his form but has shown previously he can step up.

The coach was put into a ridiculous situation by having so few games to test players, combinations and structures.  As such he needs to be pragmatic with what he has seen, as distinct from taking too many gambles.   As I have said the rfl put him in a stupid situation in preparing. He should have had the x2 4 nations to test and prepare for the WC rather than not changing McNamara sooner. Not that I disliked McNamara but if going to change RFL should have given maximum preparedness to new coach.

[Lowdesert]

4 hours ago, Moc said:

Hodgson (and you could argue the Raiders as a whole) have improved week on week - your argument seem to be based on players with the higher celling - well id argue Hodgson has by far the highest of the lot - if he can regain his NRL form he'll be one of best England players out there

Plus he has the advantage of playing at NRL intensity, sounds like you watch your NRL - therefore must appreciate.

Roby hasn’t really been on form this season, Clarke going backwards, McShane safe but not right choice for me, Houghton doesn’t have the right skill set - Still make me pick Hodgson simply on his ability

MoS doesn't have the right skill set Moc?  Well, we heard it here first.

Hodgson has been carrying injuries and only just starting to play well.  That said, he's the pick for me.  Who the deputy is, is more difficult imo.

[ghost crayfish]

8 hours ago, Moc said:

SMITH!! haha please no

I don't get to see much Super League, so haven't seen enough of him recently to understand why he is so mocked. All I know is England's best performances of recent years - the only times they have looked fluent at all - have been with Smith at halfback. He works well with Widdop and Tomkins, got Man of the Match in his last Test, has a good kicking game, has toured Australia before, has lots of big game experience and is playing for an in form club...but apparently it's madness to consider picking him!

[MZH]

4 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

I think he lacks a kicking game and I think he isn't as good at playmaking as the likes of Hodgson and Roby. As great as he is in other aspects of the game, he would be the ideal hooker for 10 years ago but I think hookers are expected to do slightly more now and I don't see him as quite as creative as Hodgson and Roby. Note I'd still pick him over Clarke as he has a much broader skillset. 

Houghton has an excellent kicking game out of dummy half, just that he doesn't tend to use it that often in a team of very good kickers, but watch the back end of last year's cup final for example. Is he creative enough? That's subjective I guess, but take a look at his assist for Taylor against Leeds in the cup where he feigned the long ball out the back and went short instead. Or the long looping pass straight from dummy half to give Steve Michaels a walk in against Wigan a couple of months ago.

As I said it's easy to see the amount of tackled he makes and pigeon hole him as a work horse. But he is an excellent all round hooker who's game stacks up against Hodgson in every area imo. 

Ellis picked his all time 13 that he has played with recently. At hooker he said Robbie Farrah was very good but Houghton is better. And it wasn't just a case of him favouring his current team mates because the only other Hull player to get a mention was Minichiello. Not a reason to pick him for England of course but when a player of Ellis' standing and experience says that it says a lot.

[Moc]

14 hours ago, MZH said:

Not saying Houghton would necessarily be my first pick for England, but it's interesting to see you don't think he had the right skill set. It's easy to look at his tackle stats and dismiss him as a work horse, but I see him most weeks and think he can do the lot. What does he lack in your opinion?

We tend to over think things

• Houghton is a defensive hooker
• Hodgson/Roby are attacking hookers

I feel at international level you need more than just a mental amount of tackles each game

Obviously I dont see him week in, week out but from what I have he's a fair bit down the hooker pecking order imo

[GaryO]

1 hour ago, Moc said:

We tend to over think things

• Houghton is a defensive hooker
• Hodgson/Roby are attacking hookers

I feel at international level you need more than just a mental amount of tackles each game

Obviously I dont see him week in, week out but from what I have he's a fair bit down the hooker pecking order imo

No question that he would have been first choice for Nobby Noble, Tony Smith and David Waite then?

[meast]

It amazes me how, for the most part of his career , Greg Eden has more or less been ridiculed and labelled as simply not good enough for any team looking to challenge in SL, yet here we are, after scoring a few tries in a team that promotes wide attacking play and suddenly everyone thinks he's international standard and better or as good as the likes of Hall, McGillvary etc,

Like his club, he's had a tremendous season and will be top try scorer but are England really that short that we need to call upon a player who, only  a couple of years ago was deemed not good enough for both Huddersfield and Hull KR

As for the suggestions of Marshall on the wing, seriously? always makes me laugh with these kind of threads that anyone from Wigan, Warrington or Leeds, and this year Castleford who has a few good games is automatically deemed to be the Saviour for the national team

 

[meast]

I know a lot of people don't rate him and most of you wouldn't have seen much of him this year due to SKY seemingly forgetting about us, but Leroy Cudjoe is in scintillating form right now, and it's no coincidence that our form has picked up since we got our captain back from injury., Like i say, i know a lot don't like him or rate him, possibly because he doesn't play for a popular club with lots of fans, but he's never let England down, works well with Jerry, who, let's be honest should be starting RW, with Hall LW, i might seem biased but Leroy is definitely in with a shout i think.

In fact he rarely has a bad game, he's an 7 or 8/10 every week and has a bit of everything, but i know he won't be considered as Bennett, like most others involved in RL won't see much of him this year.

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, meast said:

I know a lot of people don't rate him and most of you wouldn't have seen much of him this year due to SKY seemingly forgetting about us, but Leroy Cudjoe is in scintillating form right now, and it's no coincidence that our form has picked up since we got our captain back from injury., Like i say, i know a lot don't like him or rate him, possibly because he doesn't play for a popular club with lots of fans, but he's never let England down, works well with Jerry, who, let's be honest should be starting RW, with Hall LW, i might seem biased but Leroy is definitely in with a shout i think.

In fact he rarely has a bad game, he's an 7 or 8/10 every week and has a bit of everything, but i know he won't be considered as Bennett, like most others involved in RL won't see much of him this year.

Not again,he's been tried and found wanting at international level,he's at Huddersfield because none of the top teams want him,not good enough,move on.

[meast]

8 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Not again,he's been tried and found wanting at international level,he's at Huddersfield because none of the top teams want him,not good enough,move on.

He's at Huddersfield because that's who he's contracted to, do you know if any "top teams" wanted him?

And what way has he been  "found wanting" and does the same apply to the likes of Watkins, Hardaker, Tomkins etc, who, IMO, have done very little at international level.

[Lowdesert]

42 minutes ago, meast said:

It amazes me how, for the most part of his career , Greg Eden has more or less been ridiculed and labelled as simply not good enough for any team looking to challenge in SL, yet here we are, after scoring a few tries in a team that promotes wide attacking play and suddenly everyone thinks he's international standard and better or as good as the likes of Hall, McGillvary etc,

Like his club, he's had a tremendous season and will be top try scorer but are England really that short that we need to call upon a player who, only  a couple of years ago was deemed not good enough for both Huddersfield and Hull KR

As for the suggestions of Marshall on the wing, seriously? always makes me laugh with these kind of threads that anyone from Wigan, Warrington or Leeds, and this year Castleford who has a few good games is automatically deemed to be the Saviour for the national team

 

He could get in.  No matter what, before his injury, he was scoring tries which we only thought Solomona could score.  He also has history with WB at Broncos.  IMO he could end up being wing/FB support.  

[GeordieSaint]

33 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Not again,he's been tried and found wanting at international level,he's at Huddersfield because none of the top teams want him,not good enough,move on.

When has he been found wanting at the international level? Thought it performed well during RLWC13... the Aussie try down his flank at Cardiff was a mis-tackle by S Burgess (plus he scored) and he can't really be blamed for the miracle ball by Whare in the SF at Wembley. I can't remember any incident during those two games (and the wider tournament) where he didn't perform or was outplayed by his opposite number. 

[Vernon]

Looking at in-form players (using Super League Dream Team points accrued), the team would be -

Full back - Jamie Shaul

Wingers - McGillvary, Tom Davies

Centres - Watkins, Percival

Stand Off - George Williams

Scrum Half - Richie Myler

Props - Walmsley, Mike Cooper

Hooker - Roby

Second Row - McMeeken, Jon Wilkin

Loose - Joe Westerman

Bench (props - Chris Hill, Liam Watts, hooker - Clark, SR - Mat Ashurst)

 

Anyone still think its a good idea to just use current form to pick an international team ?  (and yes, I am aware some players have played more games than others !)

Would Australia drop Cameron Smith and GI if they have a couple of below par games ?

 

 

 

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, Vernon said:

Looking at in-form players (using Super League Dream Team points accrued), the team would be -

Full back - Jamie Shaul

Wingers - McGillvary, Tom Davies

Centres - Watkins, Percival

Stand Off - George Williams

Scrum Half - Richie Myler

Props - Walmsley, Mike Cooper

Hooker - Roby

Second Row - McMeeken, Jon Wilkin

Loose - Joe Westerman

Bench (props - Chris Hill, Liam Watts, hooker - Clark, SR - Mat Ashurst)

 

Anyone still think its a good idea to just use current form to pick an international team ?  (and yes, I am aware some players have played more games than others !)

Would Australia drop Cameron Smith and GI if they have a couple of below par games ?

 

 

 

I have problem picking players on form. I just have no idea why you think Davies,Watkins,Myler,Cooper,Wilkin,Clark or Ashurst would get in the England team on current form. 

[Jim Prendle]

58 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

I have problem picking players on form. I just have no idea why you think Davies,Watkins,Myler,Cooper,Wilkin,Clark or Ashurst would get in the England team on current form. 

I don't think he does. He states that, based on the current Super League Dream Team points accrued, these would be the form players. I don't think they are necessarily who he would pick, just a demonstration of who the "Form" players are.

[RL is the future]

Edens defence would worry me. There's more to being an international class winger than scoring plenty of try's, a lot of the hard work is already done by Castleford's block plays plus having Shenton next to you who seemingly has eyes in the back of his head helps. But he is a class finisher and can play FB but a lot of wingers are good finishers aswell. His contribution elsewhere like coming out of his own end is sometimes a bit lacking for me. 

In terms of backs we don't have any perfect all rounders in my opinion, they have a great attribute but then another not so good. Like Watkins, great athletic player that can make things happen but needs to sort his hands out.

Hardaker a class defensive FB but he isn't a ball playing FB  which you need in the international game now. 

Percival is probably the closest we've got but his size is a bit of problem especially with the potential of getting pushed back by the big forwards in the tournament although that can be stopped to a degree by putting a bigger centre beside him like a Ratchford or maybe even Hardaker being used there again. 

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, Jim Prendle said:

I don't think he does. He states that, based on the current Super League Dream Team points accrued, these would be the form players. I don't think they are necessarily who he would pick, just a demonstration of who the "Form" players are.

Ah right. I've no idea how some of those player are in the dream team then. 

[Jim Prendle]

5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Ah right. I've no idea how some of those player are in the dream team then. 

No, me neither.

[Vernon]

8 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

I don't think he does. He states that, based on the current Super League Dream Team points accrued, these would be the form players. I don't think they are necessarily who he would pick, just a demonstration of who the "Form" players are.

Exactly.

[Yorkie44]

1. Sam Tomkins

If he has a solid 8's and gets somewhere back to his best, if not Zak Hardaker

2. Jermaine McGillvary   

3. Leroy Cudjoe 

4. Kallum Watkins 

I know he usually plays on the right but I believe Cudjoe's relationship with Jerry would give a better outcome if not Watkins I'd go with Mark Percival 

5. Ryan Hall

6. Gareth Widdop

7. Luke Gale 

Again Luke is prodiminitly a left hand side pivot like Widdop but I would struggle to put Matty Smith although it wouldn't be the end of the world if he was picked.

8. James Graham

9. Josh Hodgson

10. Scott Taylor

11. Sam Burgess

12. Elliot Whitehead

13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. Daryl Clarke

Tough choice this but I just think he would be better off the bench than McShane, Roby or Houghton. Bring him on and Hodgson to 13 if Lockers needs to come off although I wouldn't be adverse to any of the above hookers either, I'd say they are full 80 so no Clarke on the bench and George Williams on to it.

15. Any from: Tom Burgees / Alex Wamsley / George Burgees / Mike McMeeken / John Bateman / Ben Currie / Liam Watts

16.  Any from: Tom Burgees / Alex Wamsley / George Burgees / Mike McMeeken / John Bateman / Ben Currie / Liam Watts

17.  Any from: Tom Burgees / Alex Wamsley / George Burgees / Mike McMeeken / John Bateman / Ben Currie / Liam Watts

 

[Jim Prendle]

1. Tomkins/Hardaker/Lomax - I don't actually think it makes that much difference

2. Jermaine McGillvary   

3. Mark Percival

4. Oliver Gildart

5. Dom Manfredi - If fit and fully recovered

6. Gareth Widdop

7. Matty Smith

8. Sam Burgess

9. James Roby

10. Scott Taylor

11. Mike McMeeken

12. John Bateman

13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. George Williams

15. Alex Walmsley

16.  James Graham

17.  Ben Currie

[Moc]

24 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

1. Tomkins/Hardaker/Lomax - I don't actually think it makes that much difference

2. Jermaine McGillvary   

3. Mark Percival

4. Oliver Gildart

5. Dom Manfredi - If fit and fully recovered

6. Gareth Widdop

7. Matty Smith

8. Sam Burgess

9. James Roby

10. Scott Taylor

11. Mike McMeeken

12. John Bateman

13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. George Williams

15. Alex Walmsley

16.  James Graham

17.  Ben Currie

Terrible that Jim

[Jim Prendle]

2 minutes ago, Moc said:

Terrible that Jim

Really? Why?

[Moc]

Just now, Jim Prendle said:

Really. Why?

Matty Smith?? Why?? No Gale??

Roby over Hodgson???

No Hall

Sam Burgess at prop is a big no no

Bateman well off the pace at the moment

I must be missing something with SoL - I wouldnt have anywhere near starting line up

(appriciate its all matter of a opinion, only a bit of fun)

[Jim Prendle]

1 minute ago, Moc said:

Matty Smith?? Why?? No Gale??

Roby over Hodgson???

No Hall

Sam Burgess at prop is a big no no

Bateman well off the pace at the moment

I must be missing something with SoL - I wouldnt have anywhere near starting line up

(appriciate its all matter of a opinion, only a bit of fun)

Whether we like it or not, we need someone to move the team around the pitch. Gale isn't that player, never has been, never will be. I understand Smith is not everyone's cup of tea, but he was superb in his last international match, and we need some experience in there. I am completely unconvinced by Gale.

I've gone into this earlier in the thread. If Hodgson gets back to form, then I don't care which one we pick. Is an in-form Hodgson better than an in-form Roby? In my opinion Hodgson doesn't even enter the argument.

It's time for Hall to move on. Plenty of other faster, more agile wingers knocking about, and they can all score tries.

I guess we will will just have to disagree about Sam and Bateman, and if you don't think Lockers is a great player, then I guess I don't really know what to say about that.