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RayCee

Clarifying Club Boundaries

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I was working on something and need help if it's possible.

What percentage of Hull does Hull FC gain support from compared the Hull KR. Could it be divided 50/50 or does one have more of the city?

Also, the Leeds Rhinos. Would it be fair to say that they cover the city regarding support or are they in effect based in one part and basically only getting supporters from a limited area? If so what sort of percentage would that amount to, if it is quantifiable?

If someone knows enough about those clubs and where they draw supporters, please enlighten me as it's beyond my knowledge.:tongue: 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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5 hours ago, RayCee said:

I was working on something and need help if it's possible.

What percentage of Hull does Hull FC gain support from compared the Hull KR. Could it be divided 50/50 or does one have more of the city?

Also, the Leeds Rhinos. Would it be fair to say that they cover the city regarding support or are they in effect based in one part and basically only getting supporters from a limited area? If so what sort of percentage would that amount to, if it is quantifiable?

If someone knows enough about those clubs and where they draw supporters, please enlighten me as it's beyond my knowledge.:tongue: 

Why not write to them, or the CoH Academy,  for agreed 'local' demographics.  Both clubs teams trawl the country and game, here and abroad.  IMO, the info you get will be quantifiable but whether meaningful, not so sure.

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18 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Why not write to them, or the CoH Academy,  for agreed 'local' demographics.  Both clubs teams trawl the country and game, here and abroad.  IMO, the info you get will be quantifiable but whether meaningful, not so sure.

Thanks for the suggestion. I guess what I was hoping for was someone from Hull saying that FC have a larger population on their side. But that supposes that all people on one side support that team. I guess it's like trying to find out Everton's supporter base in Liverpool. It isn't necessarily geographically based. 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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1 hour ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Leeds cover the city apart from a small enclave of rebels in the south but Darth Hetherington has a plan to deal with them.

I suggest they surrender asap. I think they call themselves Parksiders.

Edited by RayCee

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

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It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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interesting topic

I remember when I first started seriously following RL in the 70s, there was a definite perception on Radio Leeds that Bramley were 'for' West Leeds, Hunslet were 'for' South Leeds and Leeds (as they were then) for the rest of Leeds. It helped that Bramley and Hunslet had decent and competitive teams and a fair-sized fan base.

My perception now is that things have very much broken down and diversified. Partly that is the onset of SL - which meant that certain 'big' clubs suddenly became much bigger, and some others were sidelined. And so Leeds Rhinos became 'the team' in Leeds, Bradford Bulls marketed more widely than Bradford itself (much to the continuing ire of some!)

And also people have become more mobile. If you back long enough, people were born, grew up and lived all their lives in an area. That's much less so nowadays (although it still happens of course). So a team like Bramley could have a fanbase of people who's always lived in Bramley (and Stanningley and Pudsey etc). Now you have people moving all over the place for work, family, to get cheaper housing etc. How many Bradford Bulls fans live near Odsal? Not many. I know I don't - for work reasons I now live in Leeds (in fact my 'local' team is Hunslet)

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Loads of whinos fans around heavy woollen district. Glory supporters there known as. Lesser replica wear on show last year though


'Shaw cross juniors, Birkenshaw, Mirfield, Heckmondwike Panthers, Stainland Stags and then the Heavy woolen donkeys... WARDY, STOZZA, GT, KARL OR KEAR MUST OF DROPPED A DIGIT FROM MY MOBILE NUMBER! :clapping:

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23 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

interesting topic

I remember when I first started seriously following RL in the 70s, there was a definite perception on Radio Leeds that Bramley were 'for' West Leeds, Hunslet were 'for' South Leeds and Leeds (as they were then) for the rest of Leeds. It helped that Bramley and Hunslet had decent and competitive teams and a fair-sized fan base.

My perception now is that things have very much broken down and diversified. Partly that is the onset of SL - which meant that certain 'big' clubs suddenly became much bigger, and some others were sidelined. And so Leeds Rhinos became 'the team' in Leeds, Bradford Bulls marketed more widely than Bradford itself (much to the continuing ire of some!)

And also people have become more mobile. If you back long enough, people were born, grew up and lived all their lives in an area. That's much less so nowadays (although it still happens of course). So a team like Bramley could have a fanbase of people who's always lived in Bramley (and Stanningley and Pudsey etc). Now you have people moving all over the place for work, family, to get cheaper housing etc. How many Bradford Bulls fans live near Odsal? Not many. I know I don't - for work reasons I now live in Leeds (in fact my 'local' team is Hunslet)

Similar here really, grew up in East Leeds before moving to Wakefield in my teens. There are an initially surprising amount of people that wear rhinos gear in and around wakey. As you say populations and demographics change too - my dads mum was from Middleton and supported Hunslet regularly, but my dad watches Leeds. 

I think there's also an element of increased importance that was given to Leeds RL over Hunslet and Bramley just by the name over time. If they had been Headingley or something similar (or if the reverse were true and Hunslet and Bramley were called Leeds 'x') it would have been harder for one club to rise in prestige over the others. To the casual, even 40 years ago, if you were looking for a "Leeds" team then the headingley variety is likely what you'd end up at. In other sports for example Everton have struggled for years to compete with Liverpool for prestige, but maybe the same can be said for Man city so who knows if I'm placing too much importance on a name. 

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Thanks for the input guys. OK, I'll come clean. I have put together an article on my blog comparing population with average attendance at SL for the 23 regular rounds. The results are not necessarily surprising. Bigger population areas fare worse. However, Cas' are by far the winners. If you want to see the results:

https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/2017/08/pop-based-best-attended-super-league.html

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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9 minutes ago, meast said:

How are Huddersfield 9th in the averages when they have "no fans"?

Some people wander into the stadium wondering what's happening and get counted before they realise where they are.

Compared to where they have been in the past, they are doing very well. They have made 'giant' strides.

Edited by RayCee
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To what extent is population drift a factor? I suspect people move around quite a bit across  local authority boundaries but retain their club allegiances. In addition, going to a games is only one way of supporting your team, as Sky and BBC viewing figures illustrate.

Edited by JohnM

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15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

To what extent is population drift a factor? I suspect people move around quite a bit across  local authority boundaries but retain their club allegiances. In addition, going to a games is only one way of supporting your team, as Sky and BBC viewing figures illustrate.

True. I guess what I was thinking was the size of the town compared to support. The Castleford figure is amazing, even if some of the spectators have come some distance to support the team.


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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8 hours ago, RayCee said:

I was working on something and need help if it's possible.

What percentage of Hull does Hull FC gain support from compared the Hull KR. Could it be divided 50/50 or does one have more of the city?

Also, the Leeds Rhinos. Would it be fair to say that they cover the city regarding support or are they in effect based in one part and basically only getting supporters from a limited area? If so what sort of percentage would that amount to, if it is quantifiable?

If someone knows enough about those clubs and where they draw supporters, please enlighten me as it's beyond my knowledge.:tongue: 

There are no boundaries. People have free will. There are many factors which determine which team a person follows.

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1 hour ago, 9' oller said:

Loads of whinos fans around heavy woollen district. Glory supporters there known as. Lesser replica wear on show last year though

"Whinos" oh please. What's wrong with being a 'glory supporters'? I bet you wish your club had some. And the Rhinos fan base held up very well last year if you check the figures. 

Edited by Tongs ya bas
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4 minutes ago, Tongs ya bas said:

There are no boundaries. People have free will. There are many factors which determine which team a person follows.

So take Cas', over 20% of the town population at an average game. There will be some travelling fans. I wonder how many who come to games live in the town and how many are from the wider region around them who support them. Either way, a club that can garner that sort of following is doing something right. 


My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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12 minutes ago, RayCee said:

So take Cas', over 20% of the town population at an average game. There will be some travelling fans. I wonder how many who come to games live in the town and how many are from the wider region around them who support them. Either way, a club that can garner that sort of following is doing something right. 

Their attendances represent 20 per cent of the town population, but that doesn't mean that twenty per cent of the town go to their games. Considering the quality of rugby they play, and their dominance of the competition, I would suggest their attendances aren't that great. People go to Castleford games from all over the place, same with every other club. The idea of 'boundaries' makes no sense. For instance the Rhinos draw a lot of support from otley and the wharfe valley and so do the bulls

Edited by Tongs ya bas

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1 hour ago, RayCee said:

So take Cas', over 20% of the town population at an average game. There will be some travelling fans. I wonder how many who come to games live in the town and how many are from the wider region around them who support them. Either way, a club that can garner that sort of following is doing something right. 

Castleford a drawing a good percentage of their crowd from outside the town (e.g. Knottingley, Pontefract, Selby, Methley etc.) These are also crossovers for other local clubs. It is not cut and dried in terms of boundaries.

Edited by Scubby
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6 hours ago, terrywebbisgod said:

Leeds cover the city apart from a small enclave of rebels in the south but Darth Hetherington has a plan to deal with them.

The more you tighten your grip, the more Parksiders will slip through your fingers...

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This thread is crying out for a 'Cas Vegas used to say he didn't know any Castleford fans from the town' reference.

And for a conclusion that London and Toronto are letting the side down and should be kicked out.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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you have to be careful with population stats, if you search for Wigan population you will get a figure of around 350k.

however that is Wigan Borough, so includes Leigh and eastwards right up to Salford.

the town of Wigan has a population of around 150k. So depending which figure you use you will get large variations.

Leeds population has similar issues, there is the city population and the district figure.

 

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5 hours ago, RayCee said:

Thanks for the input guys. OK, I'll come clean. I have put together an article on my blog comparing population with average attendance at SL for the 23 regular rounds. The results are not necessarily surprising. Bigger population areas fare worse. However, Cas' are by far the winners. If you want to see the results:

Funnily enough, a few Cas fans on here said they'd rather win your poll than the Grand Final. :whistle:

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         SL Steve Prescott Man of Steel 2016 - Danny Houghton  SL Top Gun 2016/2017 - Marc Sneyd (83%/89% goal success)

         SL Hit Man 2016/2017 - Danny Houghton (1,289/1,123 tackles)  SL Club of the Year 2016 - Hull FC

         SL Coach of the Year 2016 - Lee Radford   RL Challenge Cup Winners 2016/2017 - Hull FC

 

                                                                      All in all, not a bad couple of years, I suppose...

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In the part of Bradford I grew up in, there were (and still are) loads of Leeds United fans. Back to the days of Bremner and Lorimer etc but they still support them to this day. It's a strange thing as one or two of them support Bradford Bulls too.

My late brother followed Spurs and used to go to many matches but had no connection to north London but that was because of Jimmy Greaves.  Its not always black and white who people support.

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11 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

In the part of Bradford I grew up in, there were (and still are) loads of Leeds United fans. Back to the days of Bremner and Lorimer etc but they still support them to this day. It's a strange thing as one or two of them support Bradford Bulls too.

My late brother followed Spurs and used to go to many matches but had no connection to north London but that was because of Jimmy Greaves.  Its not always black and white who people support.

Just ask the people of Hull


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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12 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Its not always black and white who people support.

Oh yes it is!

Drat and double drat!, Padge got in first for a change.

Image result for dick dastardly


         SL Steve Prescott Man of Steel 2016 - Danny Houghton  SL Top Gun 2016/2017 - Marc Sneyd (83%/89% goal success)

         SL Hit Man 2016/2017 - Danny Houghton (1,289/1,123 tackles)  SL Club of the Year 2016 - Hull FC

         SL Coach of the Year 2016 - Lee Radford   RL Challenge Cup Winners 2016/2017 - Hull FC

 

                                                                      All in all, not a bad couple of years, I suppose...

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