England Squad Named

[Ant]

Am I alone in being glad Eden isn't picked? 

He showed on Saturday that his 'x-factor' is calamity and disaster. 

If I was looking to pick a SL winger id name 3 or 4 others before him 

[Allora]

Just now, Scubby said:

Ratchford has been in the England 24 for the last 4 years. He was in the 2014 4 Nations squad. 

How many Caps has he got besides the Samoan Test that nobody watched?

[Ant]

Just now, Scubby said:

That I am struggling with. What happens if Hall has a Karl Pratt style meltdown?

I think, given his track record at international level, that is unlikely 

 

Eden on the other hand is a dead cert for taking on Pratt of the tournament 

[Scubby]

Just now, Ant said:

Am I alone in being glad Eden isn't picked? 

He showed on Saturday that his 'x-factor' is calamity and disaster. 

If I was looking to pick a SL winger id name 3 or 4 others before him 

Makinson was probably the man as he is very comfortable at full back and wing.

[Jim Prendle]

Just now, Scubby said:

Ratchford has been in the England 24 for the last 4 years. He was in the 2014 4 Nations squad. 

Bits and pieces player. Not fast enough, or big enough to be a winger, not skilful enough to be a half.

If one of the wingers gets injured, and we have to put Stefan in there, that would make me very nervous.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Not a very inspiring squad. My take:

Dodgy Inclusions:

Brown - not required, 3 halves is enough and he isn't in form

Heighington - too old, wasn't good enough in 2011 and isn't now.

Ratchford - must be due to his utility value and can play as a ball playing FB, as with Lomax (even though hes now playing half for Saints)

Currie - depends how fit he is because one of our most talented players.

Hill - Would have kept him in due to his previous international exploits even if he has been a little off this season

Exclusions

Shaul - not a ball playing FB has probably cost him

Eden - unlucky although I can see why not. I would probably score 20 tries on Cas's left edge and he has an error in him

Makinson - should be there, can only assume WB hasn't even looked at him

Shenton - would have taken him for centre competition, particularly when the two we have have done nothing at international level and been outplayed by Shenton from what I have seen.

Sneyd - better than Brown but wouldnt have played anyway

George - Surprised but he has been poor for a couple of years now

Clarke - disappointing he hasnt kicked on, Roby has got back to near his best

Ward - unless he is out because of his shoulder then probably the worst omission. Has been immense for Leeds.

Watts - Does ok but I dont think he is a stand out performer and seems to give a lot of penalties away. I think Hill still just shades it.

Overall I would have swapped Brown, Heighington and one of the backrows/middles for Makinson, Shenton and Ward to give a better balance. Still don't think we have the quality to challenge and making the final will be a good achievement. 

[JonM]

Thoughts on Currie playing as first choice Centre with Watkins? I think it's a possibility based on the balance of the squad.

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

Ratchford is a jack of all trades and a master of none. He is not test standard in any spot. A fantastic club player offering great versatility but at this level we should have specialists in each position.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Bits and pieces player. Not fast enough, or big enough to be a winger, not skilful enough to be a half.

If one of the wingers gets injured, and we have to put Stefan in there, that would make me very nervous.

I wouldn't have him in my 17 but if a glut of players get crocked he is handy to have in a 24 man squad. International teams have always had these types of player in a bigger squad for as long as I can remember. Hence, as Allora points out, why he has been in the squad for 4 years and only got 1 cap.

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, JonM said:

Thoughts on Currie playing as first choice Centre with Watkins? I think it's a possibility based on the balance of the squad.

I think it is a real possibility. I think he will be tried at centre in the second game.

[Allora]

Just now, Jim Prendle said:

Bits and pieces player. Not fast enough, or big enough to be a winger, not skilful enough to be a half.

If one of the wingers gets injured, and we have to put Stefan in there, that would make me very nervous.

I agree.

You look at some of the Australian utility players over the years and they were too good at too many spots and it worked against them .

Players like Steve Ella, Craig Wing,  Luke Lewis and Kurt Gidley.

[MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield]

3 minutes ago, JonM said:

Thoughts on Currie playing as first choice Centre with Watkins? I think it's a possibility based on the balance of the squad.

Currie is a massive talent but how many games has he started this year, 2 and maybe another couple from the bench?

I get the impression he has been taken rather than Ward as the fast running 2nd rower. He could easy be utilized as 3rd choice centre too.

[Jim Prendle]

2 minutes ago, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

Currie is a massive talent but how many games has he started this year, 2 and maybe another couple from the bench?

I get the impression he has been taken rather than Ward as the fast running 2nd rower. He could easy be utilized as 3rd choice centre too.

Nah, he's picked Heighington for that role.

[DavidM]

8 minutes ago, JonM said:

Thoughts on Currie playing as first choice Centre with Watkins? I think it's a possibility based on the balance of the squad.

I think it’s a big possibility . I remember Dave Woods on backchat earlier in the season saying ‘ Currie will play centre surely ? ‘ during a WC discussion , and I really don’t think Wayne would have been overly enamoured by what he’s had to pick from behind the scrum 

[Jim Prendle]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

I think it’s a big possibility . I remember Dave Woods on backchat earlier in the season saying ‘ Currie will play centre surely ? ‘ during a WC discussion , and I really don’t think Wayne would have been overly enamoured by what he’s had to pick from behind the scrum 

To be honest, he doesn't seem to have looked too hard.

[Allora]

Just now, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

Currie is a massive talent but how many games has he started this year, 2 and maybe another couple from the bench?

I get the impression he has been taken rather than Ward as the fast running 2nd rower. He could easy be utilized as 3rd choice centre too.

At the top level how many second rowers can effectively play centre?

If you are fast enough for Centre you are probably not big enough to be a second row (unless your Greg Inglis) and vice a versa.

At Test level a player like Josh Ado Carr or James Roberts will take on a Second Rower/Centre every day of the week and come out on top more often than not.

You also lose the ability to score long distance tries against swift opposing backs as your players are run down and the ability to defend the opposite when they are in the open in attack.

Speed in attack is not everything but its more than handy.

 

[DavidM]

3 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

To be honest, he doesn't seem to have looked too hard.

14 to 10 split so he must be thinking dual purpose around the fringes ?? I think it’s a worry as it’s not worked for us and looked very defensive 

[Jim Prendle]

Just now, DavidM said:

14 to 10 split so he must be thinking dual purpose around the fringes ??

Maybe, but then again don't we always end up utilising players in positions they don't play in week to week?

It just seems to me that we have left some really exciting players at home.

[DavidM]

Just now, Jim Prendle said:

Maybe, but then again don't we always end up utilising players in positions they don't play in week to week?

It just seems to me that we have left some really exciting players at home.

Agreed

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Allora said:

At the top level how many second rowers can effectively play centre?

If you are fast enough for Centre you are probably not big enough to be a second row (unless your Greg Inglis) and vice a versa.

At Test level a player like Josh Ado Carr or James Roberts will take on a Second Rower/Centre every day of the week and come out on top more often than not.

You also lose the ability to score long distance tries against swift opposing backs as your players are run down and the ability to defend the opposite when they are in the open in attack.

Speed in attack is not everything but its more than handy.

 

Currie is the real deal, the most exciting player that SL has produced in the last couple of years. Big, athletic and fast enough to be a centre. Only problem has been his injuries and lack of consistent game time. 

[Dr Tim Whatley]

34 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Apart from the fact that Bennett watched him train and play for a whole season in 2016 but I will take Tim's judgement over WB.

This is just the sort of confidence boost I was looking for. Thanks!

[Scubby]

Just now, Dr Tim Whatley said:

This is just the sort of confidence boost I was looking for. Thanks!

Hey, we are all behind Wayne. He is the mastermind that will win us the World Cup. Isn't he? 

[Futtocks]

I don't have a problem with Ratchford's selection. I probably wouldn't pick him for a one-off test, but a versatile player is good to have for a tournament, when you never know what'll happen to who with injuries over a series of matches in a relatively short period of time. 

[Allora]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Currie is the real deal, the most exciting player that SL has produced in the last couple of years. Big, athletic and fast enough to be a centre. Only problem has been his injuries and lack of consistent game time. 

I agree but he has only played at Centre half a dozen times from over 100 Club games, will that translate to a Test Centre?

[Allora]

1 minute ago, Saint 1 said:

Alternatively, players like Inglis, Hayne, Boyd, Munster, Dugan have all been expected to cover several back positions.

Ben Currie is fast enough to play centre (at least pre-injury). He's the fastest player at Warrington.

None of those you mentioned were Bench utility players for much of their careers.

I was talking about the Bench utility that was chosen for that purpose, like Ratchford has.