Boxing

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

15 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Not fair IMO, I think Usyk will be peeing blood tomorrow after the body shots.

He wasn't skillful enough to catch him, that was his problem.

Still think my granny in her pinny could have him. With a stick of rhubarb 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

15 minutes ago, YCKonstantine said:

Fully embarrassing at the end there.

Too many head knocks...brains frazzled 

[Damien]

What an idiot throwing Usyks belts out the ring and spiting on them. Then he was so disrespectful to Usyk:

 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Damien

[Niels]

53 minutes ago, Damien said:

What an idiot throwing Usyks belts out the ring and spiting on them. Then he was so disrespectful to Usyk:

 

 

They took the Ukrainian flag from him fortunately.

I saw it on You Tube, I think everyone was stunned. Though the Ukrainians behaved very well.

It was embarrassing, his references to the "conflict" which he clearly wasn't sure about. 

Maybe some damage was done during the fight that caused this. But as you said before, he made it all about himself. 

[moorside roughyed]

At the end of the day he lost to a superior fighter. He did better than the first fight. Now Fury has started spouting,he needs to stop spouting and say what his true intentions are. The sport needs an undisputed world heavyweight title fight. I'm a Fury fan but all this talk doesn't help,he needs to make his mind up and make an official statement of intent.

[Maximus Decimus]

9 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

At the end of the day he lost to a superior fighter. He did better than the first fight. Now Fury has started spouting,he needs to stop spouting and say what his true intentions are. The sport needs an undisputed world heavyweight title fight. I'm a Fury fan but all this talk doesn't help,he needs to make his mind up and make an official statement of intent.

Why would he comment if he doesn't want to fight? You can't believe a word Fury says about retiring he makes conflicting statements all the time. 

He'd very probably win, but if he chose not to fight for undisputed when there were no obstacles in the way would go against him I reckon. 

[Maximus Decimus]

So the morning after the fight before... a lot of the discussion will be about Joshua's post fight actions. The subjective nature of boxing means that fighters often think they won when they clearly didn't. Look at Wilder still calling Fury a cheat and Lomachenko claiming he beat Lopez.

He's not the first person to erroneously think that, the only difference is that he was given a microphone in his most vulnerable moment. The Sky team made a lot that his team should've stopped him but therein lies the problem: nobody can. He sounds to me like somebody who has got used to everyone listening to his every word when he talks. 

I hope it soon blows over though, he cried in his post-fight conference as he knows what the loss means for his career and legacy. If he properly apologies, it should be forgotten IMO.

[moorside roughyed]

1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Why would he comment if he doesn't want to fight? You can't believe a word Fury says about retiring he makes conflicting statements all the time. 

He'd very probably win, but if he chose not to fight for undisputed when there were no obstacles in the way would go against him I reckon. 

He needs to sign a contract with Usyk. Like you alluded to about his conflicting statements. It's doesn't win him any more fans keep making these statements. If he thinks he's Numero uno he needs to prove it. 

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

So the morning after the fight before... a lot of the discussion will be about Joshua's post fight actions. The subjective nature of boxing means that fighters often think they won when they clearly didn't. Look at Wilder still calling Fury a cheat and Lomachenko claiming he beat Lopez.

He's not the first person to erroneously think that, the only difference is that he was given a microphone in his most vulnerable moment. The Sky team made a lot that his team should've stopped him but therein lies the problem: nobody can. He sounds to me like somebody who has got used to everyone listening to his every word when he talks. 

I hope it soon blows over though, he cried in his post-fight conference as he knows what the loss means for his career and legacy. If he properly apologies, it should be forgotten IMO.

Across all sports, there is nothing to be gained by sticking a microphone in the face of someone who has just lost. 

[Damien]

42 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

So the morning after the fight before... a lot of the discussion will be about Joshua's post fight actions. The subjective nature of boxing means that fighters often think they won when they clearly didn't. Look at Wilder still calling Fury a cheat and Lomachenko claiming he beat Lopez.

He's not the first person to erroneously think that, the only difference is that he was given a microphone in his most vulnerable moment. The Sky team made a lot that his team should've stopped him but therein lies the problem: nobody can. He sounds to me like somebody who has got used to everyone listening to his every word when he talks. 

I hope it soon blows over though, he cried in his post-fight conference as he knows what the loss means for his career and legacy. If he properly apologies, it should be forgotten IMO.

It's not just that though. He also threw Usyks belts out of the ring, stormed out of the ring, tried to kick off with people in the crowd before then returning to the ring. This was presumably after being told what a tool he was being. Being narcissistic when you win and making his big speeches is one thing, when you lose it is very poor form. His behaviour, other than that speech, was very poor and frankly irrational.

I am also unsure if he genuinely thought he won. To me in those final couple of rounds he came out and fought like he knew he had to knock out Usyk, he just didn't have the tools to do it. His demeanour immediately afterwards wasn't that of a winner either.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Damien

[DavidM]

Haven’t seen the fight but pretty much as I expected . I like AJ and his Klitschko win was excellent but I feel he’s been a bit overhyped in general , and I also feel the Hearn / Sky investment in him esoecially has really given him delusions of grandeur and an elevated sense of himself inside and outside the ring and it’s tough to live up to that , especially with the focus on him . He’s been a cash cow as well , and it must be frustrating he can’t deliver what he thinks he should and what’s constantly put into his head . But it’s no disgrace to lose to Usyk he’s one of the great boxers of the age . He’s also been terribly inactive which doesn’t help . I really really hope Tyson fights Usyk . He’s massive but also supremely skilled so I think he’d have too much , however good Usyk is .

[graveyard johnny]

38 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Across all sports, there is nothing to be gained by sticking a microphone in the face of someone who has just lost. 

just ask Daryll Powell about that

[DavidM]

52 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Across all sports, there is nothing to be gained by sticking a microphone in the face of someone who has just lost. 

Agreed . It’s a bit of a gotcha moment because when you get a reaction you make that a story 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Joshua boxed a much better fight than at Tottenham, but the fact is that Usyk is far too elusive and tough for him.  AJ tried to land his bombs and was much more aggressive than the first fight particularly in the middle rounds onwards.

Sometimes though in boxing you come across somebody whose advantages outweigh yours and that is the case with Usyk who was more mobile, busy and accurate with his work than Joshua who is used to be being the better boxer at heavyweight level than his opponents.

Can’t see either defeating Tyson Fury and of course Joshua’s post fight antics were an embarrassment to the sport although I don’t think they are an overall representation of Joshua’s character.  I think he needs to apologise and move on.

All in all I thought it was a good card that I was happy to pay for with three decent undercard contests including another good finish by Callum Smith at Light Heavyweight.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[Maximus Decimus]

51 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not just that though. He also threw Usyks belts out of the ring, stormed out of the ring, tried to kick off with people in the crowd before then returning to the ring. This was presumably after being told what a tool he was being. Being narcissistic when you win and making his big speeches is one thing, when you lose it is very poor form. His behaviour, other than that speech, was very poor and frankly irrational.

I am also unsure if he genuinely thought he won. To me in those final couple of rounds he came out and fought like he knew he had to knock out Usyk, he just didn't have the tools to do it. His demeanour immediately afterwards wasn't that of a winner either.

Don't get me wrong his behaviour was shocking, but at the same time we can't understand the pressure of what it's like to be AJ. He hasn't just lost a major final etc, his whole career has essentially just been defined in a single night. All the decade long AJ doubters have just been proved right.

These are highly competitive athletes who inevitably aren't good at losing. The point I was making about boxing was that unlike other sports, the winner in a decision is subjective meaning that heavily biased athletes often come away thinking they won. When you add into the mix the infrequency with which they compete, meaning that they can't just put it right next week, it's bound to lead to a release of frustration.

Ego was obviously a factor, as was the fact that nobody was big enough to save him from himself. There have been warning signs too, he's done a couple of post-fight speeches that have bordered on cringe where I've thought he likes the sound of his own voice. Things just came together creating a mess last night that will damage him forever.

If he comes out though and acknowledges he was wrong and says it was just the heat of the moment he should be forgiven. I'm not sure he will though, and instead will just put it down to passion.

 

[Damien]

36 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Don't get me wrong his behaviour was shocking, but at the same time we can't understand the pressure of what it's like to be AJ. He hasn't just lost a major final etc, his whole career has essentially just been defined in a single night. All the decade long AJ doubters have just been proved right.

These are highly competitive athletes who inevitably aren't good at losing. The point I was making about boxing was that unlike other sports, the winner in a decision is subjective meaning that heavily biased athletes often come away thinking they won. When you add into the mix the infrequency with which they compete, meaning that they can't just put it right next week, it's bound to lead to a release of frustration.

Ego was obviously a factor, as was the fact that nobody was big enough to save him from himself. There have been warning signs too, he's done a couple of post-fight speeches that have bordered on cringe where I've thought he likes the sound of his own voice. Things just came together creating a mess last night that will damage him forever.

If he comes out though and acknowledges he was wrong and says it was just the heat of the moment he should be forgiven. I'm not sure he will though, and instead will just put it down to passion.

I think there is a huge element of Joshua believing in all the hype and that he thinks he is better than he is. I think there is a serious lack of boxing knowledge and skill there and that is behind some of the antics. I think it is genuinely unfathomable to him how someone like Usyk, who is much smaller and doesn't have the beach body, can beat him. Fights aren't won by those that look best though.

Don't get me wrong he has obviously achieved a lot and had a career most can only dream of. His size and conditioning gave him a path to the top but you just need a bit more than size and conditioning against the top guys. I think those that have called him a modern day Frank Bruno aren't too far off the mark and like Bruno some of his conditioning works against him too and all that muscle leaves him tired and vulnerable.

[EggFace]

Used to be a AJ fan until he went on the microphone at a BLM in the Covid Social Distance time and laughed after his first defeat to Usyk when he face disappeared from the dreaded JD Sports adverts.

Still would like to see Fury knock him out.

Edited I might have been a bit hard on AJ with above comment as Heavyweight Boxing has been great with AJ involved.

Edited August 21, 2022 by EggFace

[DavidM]

Just seen Tyson’s considered indepth analysis of the fight . Looks like he’s gone reverse ferret again on retiring . Odds on he’ll fight Usyk … and maybe AJ on the same night 

[EggFace]

I wonder when we see a Cuban Heavyweight champion.

[Futtocks]

1 hour ago, EggFace said:

I wonder when we see a Cuban Heavyweight champion.

I still regret that the proposed Teófilo Stevenson/Muhammad Ali bout never got further than initial talks.

[DavidM]

Frank Sanchez is being hyped up , not least by Canelo , but I’m not sure myself 

[EggFace]

2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

I still regret that the proposed Teófilo Stevenson/Muhammad Ali bout never got further than initial talks.

Yes what a shame that never happened.

[Maximus Decimus]

23 hours ago, Damien said:

I think there is a huge element of Joshua believing in all the hype and that he thinks he is better than he is. I think there is a serious lack of boxing knowledge and skill there and that is behind some of the antics. I think it is genuinely unfathomable to him how someone like Usyk, who is much smaller and doesn't have the beach body, can beat him. Fights aren't won by those that look best though.

Don't get me wrong he has obviously achieved a lot and had a career most can only dream of. His size and conditioning gave him a path to the top but you just need a bit more than size and conditioning against the top guys. I think those that have called him a modern day Frank Bruno aren't too far off the mark and like Bruno some of his conditioning works against him too and all that muscle leaves him tired and vulnerable.

I'm not sure the first bit is true. I can't bring myself to watch the cringey rant again, but in it he is literally talking about how he didn't start boxing until late and didn't have many amateur fights as if to say what do people expect.

He did fight much better, and I don't think it's unfeasible that he thought he'd won or at least had never envisaged losing the rematch. After all his corner did say that he was winning every round up to a point (again). He also seemed to be annoyed that power isn't accounted for, indicating that Usyk wasn't powerful. Clutching at straws really, but again heat of the moment etc.

The hype machine has been both a blessing a curse for AJ. It's provided him with an incredible amount of money but also not allowed him to develop properly as a boxer. There's a YouTuber called Hatmanstrikesback who once did a video on Lewis' recovery after his first loss to McCall. He was naturally gunshy and fought a few bums to get over it. AJ was too big for this route and had to go straight back in at the top. Saturday was the first time he'd started to not look as gunshy after Ruiz IMO. Part of it as well is only fighting once a year instead of 2/3.

 

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I'm not sure the first bit is true. I can't bring myself to watch the cringey rant again, but in it he is literally talking about how he didn't start boxing until late and didn't have many amateur fights as if to say what do people expect.

He was literally telling Usyk to his face that he was not big, not strong and not skilled. He simply could not fathom how someone like Usyk could beat him. That fits in exactly to what I am saying.

As I said previously you seem entirely focused on Joshua's rant while ignoring everything else he said and did. That was all as bad in my opinion.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Damien

[Gerrumonside ref]

18 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I'm not sure the first bit is true. I can't bring myself to watch the cringey rant again, but in it he is literally talking about how he didn't start boxing until late and didn't have many amateur fights as if to say what do people expect.

He did fight much better, and I don't think it's unfeasible that he thought he'd won or at least had never envisaged losing the rematch. After all his corner did say that he was winning every round up to a point (again). He also seemed to be annoyed that power isn't accounted for, indicating that Usyk wasn't powerful. Clutching at straws really, but again heat of the moment etc.

The hype machine has been both a blessing a curse for AJ. It's provided him with an incredible amount of money but also not allowed him to develop properly as a boxer. There's a YouTuber called Hatmanstrikesback who once did a video on Lewis' recovery after his first loss to McCall. He was naturally gunshy and fought a few bums to get over it. AJ was too big for this route and had to go straight back in at the top. Saturday was the first time he'd started to not look as gunshy after Ruiz IMO. Part of it as well is only fighting once a year instead of 2/3.

 

Personally I have been disappointed with the trajectory of Joshua’s career since the Klitschko fight and although his career isn’t over yet, it’s clearly not going in the direction he or his promotional team envisaged.

I do think too his behaviour on Saturday night post-fight shouldn’t be excused as ‘what top level athletes do when they lose’.  We see countless examples of other top level athletes in their sport be defeated and take it honourably.

Thankfully Joshua has acknowledged he fell below the standards set and now I feel we will truly see what he is made of in the rest of his career.  He needs most obviously to prepare a fighting path towards being in contention to fight Tyson Fury at Wembley stadium should Fury be successful in defeating Usyk.

There’s lots of ifs, buts and maybes though, but a Fury-Joshua fight even now would still bring a tremendous amount of money to both and the chance to settle that score.