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23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You are entirely correct. Modern day spoken Welsh has three ways of doing numbers.

The one you describe. You'll hear some parts of it in odd places but mostly it exists as a pretty relic.

The one they now teach which is very simple. Thirty six is tri deg pump (tree-deg-pimp).

Or the numbers everyone, including native speakers speaking natively to another native speaker, uses: English.

The bit about changing the consonants is yer basic mutations and Welsh has loads. Hence it's Croeso i Gymru on the sign as you enter, not Cymru.

Duolingo mostly seems to teach the old system in the context of telling time.

And yer basic mutations are mostly different for each different number. Soft mutation for un, but for feminine nouns only, aspirate mutation after tri, nasal mutation for the words for day or year after pum or wyth etc. etc.

Still makes Dutch look consistent and logical 😉

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4 minutes ago, JonM said:

Dutch look consistent and logical 😉

This kind of talk, I will never accept.

You could be right about time - I think you are actually but it's 20 years plus since I learnt - and, again, the default for numbers in conversation is either English or a curious mixture of English with the occasional 'ugain' and 'unarddeg' to show willing.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

This kind of talk, I will never accept.

My wife went to university in Amsterdam for a year. The only Dutch she knows is Goede Dag and Sinaasappelsap, which she knows because she thought it was funny that an orange is a sin aas apple.

Edited by JonM
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15 minutes ago, JonM said:

My wife went to university in Amsterdam for a year. The only Dutch she knows is Goede Dag and Sinaasappelsap, which she knows because she thought it was funny that an orange is a sin aas apple.

i.e. Sino-apple.

Pretty much every European other than English (that I know of) call them Chinese apples.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

i.e. Sino-apple.

Pretty much every European other than English (that I know of) call them Chinese apples.

Hadn't even occurred to me that's what it was.

I should probably have spent less time in German admiring [redacted teacher]'s legs and more time thinking about etymology.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Pretty much every European other than English (that I know of) call them Chinese apples.

Makes sense, as sweet oranges came from China originally.

Naranja in Spanish, Orange in French, Oren in Welsh.

Quick look on Wikipedia  which says that the word orange comes originally from Tamil, reaching Europe via Sanskrit, Persian & Arabic. And languages from different families round the Balkans (Turkish, Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian) call them by words that mean "Portugese" because merchants from there were the ones who brought them.

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Just now, JonM said:

Makes sense, as sweet oranges came from China originally.

Naranja in Spanish, Orange in French, Oren in Welsh.

Quick look on Wikipedia  which says that the word orange comes originally from Tamil, reaching Europe via Sanskrit, Persian & Arabic. And languages from different families round the Balkans (Turkish, Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian) call them by words that mean "Portugese" because merchants from there were the ones who brought them.

My understanding is that we have "an orange" in English because it was "a norange" and moved from there.

Or is that balls? I'd like it to be true.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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48 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My understanding is that we have "an orange" in English because it was "a norange" and moved from there.

Or is that balls? I'd like it to be true.

True, it seems - and the same thing happened in French. Numpire, napron and nadder went in the other direction.

Flutterby turning into Butterfly seems not to be true though.

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Greek has two words that I know of for orange (there may be others I haven't come across). The common one is (using english letters) portokali which is used for the sweet ones. The other is neranja which is for the Seville oranges. Πορτοκάλι and νεράντζα respectively. (spelling might be a bit iffy)

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Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society

Founder (and, so far, only) member.

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Fewer languages than I though, Wikipedia gives it a mention:

sinaasappel or appelsien, and sometimes German, Apfelsine, Swedish apelsin, and Danish and Norwegian appelsin,', and Icelandic appelsína', and Lithuanian apelsinas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(fruit)#Etymology

As Portuguese merchants were presumably the first to introduce the sweet orange to some regions of Europe, in several modern Indo-European languages the fruit has been named after them. Some examples are Albanian portokall, Bulgarian портокал (portokal), Greek πορτοκάλι (portokali), Macedonian portokal, Persian پرتقال (porteghal), Turkish portakal and Romanian portocală.[32][33] Related names can be found in other languages, such as Arabic البرتقال (bourtouqal), Georgian ფორთოხალი (pʰortʰoxali) and Amharic birtukan.[32] Also, in some of the Italian regional languages (e.g. Neapolitan), an orange is portogallo or purtuallo, literally "(the) Portuguese (one)", in contrast to the Italian arancia.

Edited by Bob8
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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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On 16/07/2019 at 17:53, Bob8 said:

Fewer languages than I though, Wikipedia gives it a mention:

sinaasappel or appelsien, and sometimes German, Apfelsine, Swedish apelsin, and Danish and Norwegian appelsin,', and Icelandic appelsína', and Lithuanian apelsinas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(fruit)#Etymology

As Portuguese merchants were presumably the first to introduce the sweet orange to some regions of Europe, in several modern Indo-European languages the fruit has been named after them. Some examples are Albanian portokall, Bulgarian портокал (portokal), Greek πορτοκάλι (portokali), Macedonian portokal, Persian پرتقال (porteghal), Turkish portakal and Romanian portocală.[32][33] Related names can be found in other languages, such as Arabic البرتقال (bourtouqal), Georgian ფორთოხალი (pʰortʰoxali) and Amharic birtukan.[32] Also, in some of the Italian regional languages (e.g. Neapolitan), an orange is portogallo or purtuallo, literally "(the) Portuguese (one)", in contrast to the Italian arancia.

Dankjewel.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Watching The Matrix at the cinema tonight. Never saw it on the big screen first time out but it was the first DVD I ever bought (before I had the player)

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14 hours ago, Spidey said:

Watching The Matrix at the cinema tonight. Never saw it on the big screen first time out but it was the first DVD I ever bought (before I had the player)

Did you just plug it into the back of your neck

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I’m knackered...

Yesterday, 560 mile round trip to Scarborough for a family funeral. A decent event for a good guy and a chance to catch up with cousins I hadn’t seen in many years.

It would have been 540 miles except for a 20 mile detour for roadworks on the way back.  6am start, home just before midnight, I’m getting too old for that sort of driving day.

The rain on the way back was horrendous, down to about 20m visibility at times and aquaplaning at times but still the brain-dead idiots driving at 100mph as if it were a dry midsummer midday.  I’m fairly confident in my own driving in those conditions, my biggest risk was the terminally stupid others who think that the laws of physics don’t apply to them.

Duvet day today I think watching TV.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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6 minutes ago, ckn said:

I’m knackered...

Yesterday, 560 mile round trip to Scarborough for a family funeral. A decent event for a good guy and a chance to catch up with cousins I hadn’t seen in many years.

It would have been 540 miles except for a 20 mile detour for roadworks on the way back.  6am start, home just before midnight, I’m getting too old for that sort of driving day.

The rain on the way back was horrendous, down to about 20m visibility at times and aquaplaning at times but still the brain-dead idiots driving at 100mph as if it were a dry midsummer midday.  I’m fairly confident in my own driving in those conditions, my biggest risk was the terminally stupid others who think that the laws of physics don’t apply to them.

Duvet day today I think watching TV.

Get rested up today!...my first reaction to your post was that : "That is just a regular routine to go to any Wolfpack home game."  Too bad you didn't have some young kids in the car just to liven things up a bit. 

Drink coffee.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Get rested up today!...my first reaction to your post was that : "That is just a regular routine to go to any Wolfpack home game."  Too bad you didn't have some young kids in the car just to liven things up a bit. 

Drink coffee.

 

I had a very drunk wife on the way back who was asleep before I turned on the engine.  Audiobook kept me going as usual on those journeys when I have to keep myself company.

I have a good friend who lives out BC these days, he used to be a Calgary native but moved on early retirement.  His “close neighbour” is six miles away and he sees them more often than he’d like


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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1 minute ago, ckn said:

I had a very drunk wife on the way back who was asleep before I turned on the engine.  Audiobook kept me going as usual on those journeys when I have to keep myself company.

I have a good friend who lives out BC these days, he used to be a Calgary native but moved on early retirement.  His “close neighbour” is six miles away and he sees them more often than he’d like

Yes, indeed,  overcrowding is becoming a real problem in some parts of the world today.  If there is a power outage or emergency of some type it is sometimes good to have a neighbour so close though, but its not good to be 'crowded' in like steers in a paddock.

Classical music is nice on long highway night drives.

I've heard it said before that people over there don't know how to drive; one guy even tried to convince me once that folks even drive on the wrong side of the road over there {how crazy can the world get; as if anyone would believe such a thing}.

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1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

Yes, indeed,  overcrowding is becoming a real problem in some parts of the world today.  If there is a power outage or emergency of some type it is sometimes good to have a neighbour so close though, but its not good to be 'crowded' in like steers in a paddock.

Classical music is nice on long highway night drives.

I've heard it said before that people over there don't know how to drive; one guy even tried to convince me once that folks even drive on the wrong side of the road over there {how crazy can the world get; as if anyone would believe such a thing}.

Funny foreign folk with their quaint ideas of what’s “right” when it comes to driving. 

Music or other things I can’t use the thinking parts of my brain on don’t keep me awake. An audiobook forces my brain to keep concentrating. 

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Oh, and I did that 560 miles on a single tank of petrol. The car says 45 miles left of reserve. Bloody good going for a 13 year old petrol car. 

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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9 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Yes, indeed,  overcrowding is becoming a real problem in some parts of the world today.  If there is a power outage or emergency of some type it is sometimes good to have a neighbour so close though, but its not good to be 'crowded' in like steers in a paddock.

Classical music is nice on long highway night drives.

I've heard it said before that people over there don't know how to drive; one guy even tried to convince me once that folks even drive on the wrong side of the road over there {how crazy can the world get; as if anyone would believe such a thing}.

You can easily tell which of the road is correct. Just look at which way railway trains drive on.

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Ron Banks

Bears and Barrow

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40 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Get rested up today!...my first reaction to your post was that : "That is just a regular routine to go to any Wolfpack home game."  Too bad you didn't have some young kids in the car just to liven things up a bit. 

Drink coffee.

I lived in CA, drove from by Sacramento down to LA in one shot and drove back the next day. It is easy driving. In the UK, I would not do the drive he did.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 hour ago, Bearman said:

You can easily tell which of the road is correct. Just look at which way railway trains drive on.

You mean there is more than one train track on the line?  Must be pretty crowded over there.

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

Oh, and I did that 560 miles on a single tank of petrol. The car says 45 miles left of reserve. Bloody good going for a 13 year old petrol car. 

What are you driving; a moped?

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1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

I lived in CA, drove from by Sacramento down to LA in one shot and drove back the next day. It is easy driving. In the UK, I would not do the drive he did.

You west coast people are so soft.

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