Australia vs Tonga

[Luckycreed]

I thought Tonga did have the better of it in the second half, they forced three line drop outs, Australia none, they just lacked the class to turn pressure into points, that was the difference between them and New Zealand last week.

The other difference between Tonga and New Zealand was goal line defence.New Zealand won last weeks test in the first ten minutes after half time. Australia pounded their line after a clean break from Mitchell but came up empty.That was the turning point in the game, Tongan defence  can't  handle that kind of pressure at this point in time. 

[Dunbar]

11 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

well, what was there to not enjoy about that? Made me truly wish I had been there to experience it. The Pacific Nations Inc PNG truly bring a unique atmosphere to games, and with the increasing amount of young Polynisiesans coming through the NRL system they are only going to get better in the future..It looks like it's going to become the real growth area of International RL, which is unfortunate because there such small nations, and also for us because they historically don't travel well and wouldn't create the same atmosphere over here.

Other random thoughts:To be take seriously there has to be neutral refs in International games.                                                If a team want's to take a quick penalty the ref should let them even if the offending team is still offside.                                 Hull FC want to check who the guy who's been masquerading as Sima Manu with them for the last 4 month's is.                   All those saying they looked unfit at the start, they looked fit enough at the end and must be one of the few times recently where the majority of the crowd was bigger than the players including the females.

On the fitness point.  I don't think it is as simple as saying that they were going strong at the end.

There were a number of times in that game when the Tongans had the Kangaroos playing the ball on play one inside their own 10 meters.  I was looking for the Tongan defence to really step up and put pressure on but the metres were made far too easily by the Kangaroos.  Similarly, when the Kangaroos kicked long they put pressure on the Tongans and some of the big forwards were still looking to get back onside after plays 2 and 3.  These extra efforts are what the conditioning allows and put simply the Tongans didn't have it.  Their hearts were in the game but so were their love handles.

Compare this game to New Zealand last week who did put the pressure on the Kangaroos and managed to strangle the game.  They reaped the rewards by putting the points on the board.

[Damien]

I really enjoyed the game and thought that it was a fantastic occasion which we need to see much more of.

I would have loved to have seen Tonga have had a game last week like Australia. They would have been much better for it and the match would certainly have been closer. Despite this they at the very least matched Australia for large parts of the game and the match for Australia and the lack of one for Tonga last week was a huge difference. Coupled with the fact that few of the Tongans were in the finals and particularly the later stages, with many looking a little out of shape, it was telling. As it was they performed well anyway and in my opinion should certainly be elevated to tier one status with more regular games.

On Australia I thought they defended really well and held on heroically at times. They also played with a good game plan and kicked early on a number of occasions to clear their line and tire out Tonga. As always they looked dangerous everytime they got the ball wide and scored some great tries. They can certainly grind out the wins when they have to.

All in all well done to both teams and the fans for a great atmosphere.

 

[graveyard johnny]

tonga would have benefitted no end from a warm up game although will hopate is no where near international standard or the class of Tedesco 

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

tonga would have benefitted no end from a warm up game although will hopate is no where near international standard or the class of Tedesco 

He is not trying to get in the same team at Tedesco. That's a bit like saying Tony Gigot is not international standard.

[graveyard johnny]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

He is not trying to get in the same team at Tedesco. That's a bit like saying Tony Gigot is not international standard.

he was shocking for the bulldogs last 2 seasons as well, not even club standard- you cant face aus with a sub standard full back and expect to get a result

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

he was shocking for the bulldogs last 2 seasons as well, not even club standard- you cant face aus with a sub standard full back and expect to get a result

True but you know if he made himself available for SL teams like Hull, Warrington and Catalans would be after him. Tedesco is a great player hitting his peak.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

True but you know if he made himself available for SL teams like Hull, Warrington and Catalans would be after him. Tedesco is a great player hitting his peak.

Tedesco is very good.  I think his passing game has improved immensely this year with the Roosters.

Of the 'big four' retirements that Australia have had to replace, Tedesco for Slater has been the easiest for them.

[Clogiron]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

On the fitness point.  I don't think it is as simple as saying that they were going strong at the end.

There were a number of times in that game when the Tongans had the Kangaroos playing the ball on play one inside their own 10 meters.  I was looking for the Tongan defence to really step up and put pressure on but the metres were made far too easily by the Kangaroos.  Similarly, when the Kangaroos kicked long they put pressure on the Tongans and some of the big forwards were still looking to get back onside after plays 2 and 3.  These extra efforts are what the conditioning allows and put simply the Tongans didn't have it.  Their hearts were in the game but so were their love handles.

Compare this game to New Zealand last week who did put the pressure on the Kangaroos and managed to strangle the game.  They reaped the rewards by putting the points on the board.

I know what you're saying about getting back for the plays and such but with many of the Polynesian nations they are genetically disposed to being on the ehm, rotound side, wish I could use that as a excuse personally, so they will never look what to our eyes is considered fit. Fifita regularly play's big minutes or even the full game in the NRL and besides the knee strapping never looks fit but continues to put big efforts in.  Last season Sam Kasiano signed on with the Storm and they drastically reduced his weight and in both sences finished up with a player who was a shadow of his former self, it's the opposite with former players once they stop regularly training and playing they literally balloon.

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

I know what you're saying about getting back for the plays and such but with many of the Polynesian nations they are genetically disposed to being on the ehm, rotound side, wish I could use that as a excuse personally, so they will never look what to our eyes is considered fit. Fifita regularly play's big minutes or even the full game in the NRL and besides the knee strapping never looks fit but continues to put big efforts in.  Last season Sam Kasiano signed on with the Storm and they drastically reduced his weight and in both sences finished up with a player who was a shadow of his former self, it's the opposite with former players once they stop regularly training and playing they literally balloon.

Yes, I get that.  But the two players in the Australian team from Tongan decent Felise Kaufusi and Tyson Frizell look like they don't an ounce of fat on them.  It can't be a coincidence that the Australian national team can get these players in top shape but not the Tongan team.

[Clogiron]

I suppose there's always exceptions, was Brendan Hill or Trevor (Tank)Walker from Samoa! That was always the beauty of RL that you had player's of all shapes and sizes in the game something we've gone away from recently as the population of most countries has grown bigger, except our centres! It's always interesting to see in books or old programme's the height and weight of players, Frank Whitcombe was regarded as a giant on tour in Australiasa at 5' 10" and 18st, that's why I'm in agreement with you about Jake Treobovic, he's a throwback to another era in his style but very effective in any position.

[Dunbar]

It reminded me of watching Great Britian play Australia in the 80's and early 90's. They were twice as skillful as we were back then but because they were fitter they looked 10 times as skillful. It was the same when the Kangaroos played the Kiwi's, you just knew they would get the win through attrition if nothing else.

The Tongans are a big team but I think it is a fairly easy equation, if they were fitter (as a team) they would have stood a better chance of winning that game. 

You have to give yourself the best chance of winning games and conditioning is a key part of that.

[Damien]

I can't believe people are seriously trying to argue that Tonga wouldn't have been better for a game last week and that Australia having a game wasn't a big advantage too. It was a double whammy in that regard.

That coupled with the fact that a number of Australians played in the Grand Final and later stages of the playoffs compared to hardly any Tongans even playing in the playoffs at all, and so not even playing for several weeks, and it is clear that Australia had a huge advantage in terms of match fitness and conditioning.

[Harry Stottle]

Sorry can't agree with you guy's lording Tonga's style of play, they are very naive in any form of constructive play, close on 30 tackles on the trot and still one out driving the ball in is testament to that, good evasive play by a centre broke that deadlock. 

Lets be honest they are in the main big powerful lads and required by all teams, but these type of player's are guided around the pitch by those better equipped between the earholes to perform that way, they tell them when and where to run, stay in or drop out basically they do their thinking for them, putting a collection of these type of players together will only work if they can out power their opposition, if that is the type of game people want to watch then that is their prerogative, I prefer to see proper football, ball through hands, thank goodness Australia did that, two teams just performing the power stuff is not Rugby League for me.

[paulwalker71]

Has there been a definitive answer as to why Tonga didn't play a warm-up game?

I would have thought a game against PNG would have been a decent test for them, and would have been sell out in Port Moresby. Failing that, they could have played Samoa or Fiji. Any one of them would have had the double benefit of getting Tonga more battle-hardened, and also giving their opposition a much needed International match.

[Dunbar]

39 minutes ago, Damien said:

I can't believe people are seriously trying to argue that Tonga wouldn't have been better for a game last week and that Australia having a game wasn't a big advantage too. It was a double whammy in that regard.

That coupled with the fact that a number of Australians played in the Grand Final and later stages of the playoffs compared to hardly any Tongans even playing in the playoffs at all, and so not even playing for several weeks, and it is clear that Australia had a huge advantage in terms of match fitness and conditioning.

I don't think I have seen anyone on here is arguing that Tonga wouldn't have been better for a run last week.  They certainly would have been sharper than they were today, there was clearly some rustiness.

Not sure I agree completely about the conditioning.  Rugby League players don't get fit by playing rugby, they get fit through serious conditioning sessions, many hours of effort every week so that they can be in top shape for the 80 minutes in the game.  As professional players, I would have expected the Tongans to be better prepared.  As I said, it reminded me of Great Britain in the 80's when the Australians were simply fitter than we were and so they could run faster for longer and put in that extra effort in every set.  It's a big part of our sport.

[Dunbar]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Sorry can't agree with you guy's lording Tonga's style of play, they are very naive in any form of constructive play, close on 30 tackles on the trot and still one out driving the ball in is testament to that, good evasive play by a centre broke that deadlock. 

Lets be honest they are in the main big powerful lads and required by all teams, but these type of player's are guided around the pitch by those better equipped between the earholes to perform that way, they tell them when and where to run, stay in or drop out basically they do their thinking for them, putting a collection of these type of players together will only work if they can out power their opposition, if that is the type of game people want to watch then that is their prerogative, I prefer to see proper football, ball through hands, thank goodness Australia did that, two teams just performing the power stuff is not Rugby League for me.

I agree with this.  The Tongans were not smart in the way they played today (they were lucky that Australia's kicking game was about the worst I have seen it as well).  They played the big men power game ending with a cross field kick.

When the Tongan game is at its best, their running is unpredictable and they off load at will (the last 15 minutes in the World Cup semi comes to mind) but we didn't see them hit that type of game today.

[thirteenthman]

Great match and obviously a great atmosphere. Good to see the NZ v Tonga game is locked in for June next year. 

I'd agree to an extent that Tonga would have benefited from a warm up game, but I think they would've benefited even more for having some decent half backs. For the amount of possession Tonga had in that second half, to come away with only 6 points is pretty poor. I'm not convinced Lolohea is an answer to Leeds' problems. 

Not sure who was MOM or if there was one, but James Tedesco was superb. That's one position the Aussies won't have to worry too much about.

 

[Dunbar]

13 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

Great match and obviously a great atmosphere. Good to see the NZ v Tonga game is locked in for June next year. 

I'd agree to an extent that Tonga would have benefited from a warm up game, but I think they would've benefited even more for having some decent half backs. For the amount of possession Tonga had in that second half, to come away with only 6 points is pretty poor. I'm not convinced Lolohea is an answer to Leeds' problems. 

Not sure who was MOM or if there was one, but James Tedesco was superb. That's one position the Aussies won't have to worry too much about.

 

Tedesco was named player of the match yes.  It was well deserved, he was very good.

I thought Cordner and Klemmer up front were excellent - Fox Sport ratings have Josh McGuire as the pick of the Australian forwards along with Cordner but I am still unconvinced about him, I thought Klemmer really took it to the Tongans.

Taukeiaho and Pangai Junior were the pick of the Tongans while Kata ran and defended well.

[Futtocks]

17 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

Not sure who was MOM or if there was one, but James Tedesco was superb. That's one position the Aussies won't have to worry too much about.

Once again, an Australian steps into big shoes and manages the job with aplomb. A very impressive performance.

[thirteenthman]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I thought Cordner and Klemmer up front were excellent - Fox Sport ratings have Josh McGuire as the pick of the Australian forwards along with Cordner but I am still unconvinced about him, I thought Klemmer really took it to the Tongans.

Never been overly impressed with Klemmer, but he had a really good game. I thought Jordan McLean had a decent match as well, and he's one I was surprised was even picked. Josh McGuire is very overrated for mine, but what do I know!?!

[Dave T]

6 hours ago, Scubby said:

  

Yes, it's a bloody joke before anyone gets on their high horse!!

Haha, you did a genuine funny!!!

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Haha, you did a genuine funny!!!

Bloody cheek. I've been here all week!

[DavidM]

Watchable game and unreal atmosphere . But stark reality was it was predictable . Lots of physicality lots of endeavour but just not enough smarts , guile and control to finish it off and tie it all together . They were under the pump in that dept to begin with but losing hingano was the last thing they needed . Tui had little but aimless bombs and the odd frill , but just doesn’t look fit . By contrast the kangaroos just do what they do , not always flash but finish off their sets well and smoother basics through the halves . Add some nice tries to cap it and then trust their defence against what was thrown at them . More days like this needed though from here 

 

[Dunbar]

12 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Watchable game and unreal atmosphere . But stark reality was it was predictable . Lots of physicality lots of endeavour but just not enough smarts , guile and control to finish it off and tie it all together . They were under the pump in that dept to begin with but losing hingano was the last thing they needed . Tui had little but aimless bombs and the odd frill , but just doesn’t look fit . By contrast the kangaroos just do what they do , not always flash but finish off their sets well and smoother basics through the halves . Add some nice tries to cap it and then trust their defence against what was thrown at them . More days like this needed though from here 

 

While I agree that Tonga lacked the game management needed to be a top quality international team, the reality is that Australia were not that much better.  Tonga forced 5 goal line dropouts while Australia didn't force one while they gifted Tonga some 7 tackles sets through poor kicks taken on the full in the in goal.  Cooke, Cherry Evans and Keary while good NRL players are nowhere near the class of Smith, Cronk and Thurston.

Australia did enough to win and that is all you can do but I honestly think that New Zealand would have beaten them again today because of the hooker/halves combination.