EU Elections Thread

[Bearman]

6 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

i took it from a Dec 2017 reuters article which said it was the figure given by the auditors, i could find no more recent number but i doubt a 50% rise in 2 years. Whatever, as you say watch out for the pennies, but compared with the £550m annual cost of running Westminster and the estimated £4bn repair bill it starts to look less stupid https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/parliamentary-monitor-2018/cost

Two wrongs still do not make a right. The cost of running or repairing Westminster does excuse the French vanity in insisting that they have a talking shop every other month.

[SSoutherner]

10 minutes ago, Bearman said:

Two still do not make a right. The cost of running or repairing Westminster does excuse the French vanity in insisting that they have a talking shop every other month.

nope but given a choice of a parliament 1 week a month or the rebate i would take the rebate any day

I wasnt arguing about it being a reason some people might see to leave just putting the numbers in perspective - I think we as a country could save loads through moving our own govt away from a  single medieval complex in London and if we are going to the trouble/expense of reorganising our entire govt (which is what Brexit really means after 40 yrs of delegating things to the EU) then let's do it right or the UK will split assunder

[shrek]

4 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Not sure their heart is really in it....

 

State of that!

PM and 4 hostages photographed by a bloke who happened to be passing!

In the words of Mick Morgan, the bottleless gets!

[Chrispmartha]

1 hour ago, Private Baldrick said:

My point is not UK specific.

Can you be specific then to help me understand your point?

[Private Baldrick]

11 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Can you be specific then to help me understand your point?

With the past, and likely future, ceding of powers from national governments to the EU power machine then this lessens the relevance of national governments, and so making the nation state redundant. In time it is my belief that national governments will be akin to the present day local councils of this country.

[Father Ted]

That is an argument from five years ago, popularism has put an end to "closer integration".

[Bedford Roughyed]

These elections are again showing how our election laws are being left behind.  You have to declare advertising and there are limits on what you can spend on your own campaign.  Media (printed and TV) have to give balanced coverage, so every party mentioned and political broadcast slots etc.

Now the area where its lacking in online.  A 'media' organisation (even one heavily connected to a candidate) can broadcast 24/7 with pro coverage, no limits and it seems no restrictions.  No need to be truthful or accurate. That is free advertising and can be retweeted/shared widely.  

Another issue raising its head is how the PR lead for a right wing (very rich) US organisation can follow around a candidate whilst 'on holiday' as US money would obviously be illegal.  

[ckn]

Michael Heseltine will vote Lib Dem in the EU elections.

 

[Saintslass]

39 minutes ago, ckn said:

Michael Heseltine will vote Lib Dem in the EU elections.

 

He's always been a LibDem at heart anyway.  

[ckn]

2 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

He's always been a LibDem at heart anyway.  

No... he's a Tory at his heart. He's a core Thatcherite Tory who has been pushed away by the extremist wing of the party and the party's leadership fawning over it to the exclusion of the rational folk.

When you lose people like Heseltine who may whine a lot but would always vote Tory then you really have a problem and deserve to come 5th in these elections.

[Saintslass]

1 minute ago, ckn said:

No... he's a Tory at his heart. He's a core Thatcherite Tory who has been pushed away by the extremist wing of the party and the party's leadership fawning over it to the exclusion of the rational folk.

When you lose people like Heseltine who may whine a lot but would always vote Tory then you really have a problem and deserve to come 5th in these elections.

Heseltine was largely responsible for removing Thatcher from office.  He was a thorn in her side.  

[Private Baldrick]

2 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Heseltine was largely responsible for removing Thatcher from office.  He was a thorn in her side.  

I wonder if he will be expelled from the party now then?

[Saintslass]

2 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

I wonder if he will be expelled from the party now then?

Ha!  If only!  That'll never happen especially with the present regime in charge.

[Private Baldrick]

1 minute ago, Saintslass said:

Ha!  If only!  That'll never happen especially with the present regime in charge.

What regime???? 

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

I wonder if he will be expelled from the party now then?

They’re not expelling the two-faced Tory members who are voting for the Brexit Party, as far as I’m aware.

[Trojan]

1 hour ago, ckn said:

Michael Heseltine will vote Lib Dem in the EU elections.

 

And I'll be joining him.  It feels really strange.  I've always voted Labour, but not this time.  I think those of us who support Remain need to send an unambiguous message that we want another vote.  As far as I can see this is the only way to do it. And waken up Labour to what the real Labour people want.

[ckn]

30 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Heseltine was largely responsible for removing Thatcher from office.  He was a thorn in her side.  

You shouldn't confuse mistake his ego and ambition with his political views, he is still a properly core Tory politician

[Griff9of13]

3 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Heseltine was largely responsible for removing Thatcher from office.  He was a thorn in her side.  

He was far from being alone. The Tory party (back then at least) has an instinct for survival and retention of power and a ruthlessness that meant no individual was bigger than the party. They saw her popularity waining so she had to go.

[Trojan]

4 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Heseltine was largely responsible for removing Thatcher from office.  He was a thorn in her side.  

Heseltine did everyone a favour, including the Tories.  She had clearly become seriously unbalanced between the summer of '89 and the autumn of '90.  Her humiliation of Geoffrey Howe, and his resignation speech was what caused her downfall. Had she remained they'd have been annihilated in 1992 election.    As it was Major rescued it for them, but unfortunately for him he was confronted with the unholy mess left behind by Thatcher and Lawson.  Normally that's what confronts a Labour administration when it comes in.  He and Ken Clarke dealt with it, and for the most part put things right but unfortunately for them the consequence was the holocaust of 1997.

[Saintslass]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

They’re not expelling the two-faced Tory members who are voting for the Brexit Party, as far as I’m aware.

Members can vote for whom they like.  Lords and MPs, however, cannot.  However, that doesn't stop them doing so because they know full well that May has no authority left.

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, Griff9of13 said:

He was far from being alone. The Tory party (back then at least) has an instinct for survival and retention of power and a ruthlessness that meant no individual was bigger than the party. They saw her popularity waining so she had to go.

I agree that he wasn't alone but to paint him as some ardent Thatcherite is to rewrite history.  An interview is just doing the rounds of Twitter at the moment from way back when he said he didn't think Thatcher was fit for office, and that was before she was even elected leader.

I find him repulsive.

[GeordieSaint]

23 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I find him repulsive.

That’s a very strong word to use... what’s he done to justify that other than disagree with your political stance? Tend to use that for the likes of Robinson/Farage who stoke hatred and racism...; not something you’d associate with a supposed liberal.

[Trojan]

34 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I agree that he wasn't alone but to paint him as some ardent Thatcherite is to rewrite history.  An interview is just doing the rounds of Twitter at the moment from way back when he said he didn't think Thatcher was fit for office, and that was before she was even elected leader.

I find him repulsive.

Many people on this forum disagree with your views profoundly.  And we say so.  What happened to "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it?" (Voltaire)

[ckn]

As noted earlier, Brexiters do want to remember what people said in the past so a vote for Farage’s Brexit Party is a direct vote for someone who defended the Warrington bomb.  (Just to save the argument, it is a direct vote as she’s number 1 on the party list therefore if Farage’s party wins one seat in the area then she gets it.)

[Saintslass]

50 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

That’s a very strong word to use... what’s he done to justify that other than disagree with your political stance? Tend to use that for the likes of Robinson/Farage who stoke hatred and racism...; not something you’d associate with a supposed liberal.

Remember I've been a Tory supporter for a long time.  Politics and the honing of my political and other views existed well before Brexit and indeed even before I was aware of Farage (or Robinson come to think of it - I hadn't even heard of Robinson until about a year ago).  Heseltine has always been smarmy and I have been reminded of it since the media began rolling him out to make his melodramatic statements.  I simply now find his smarminess repulsive.  Nothing to do with his political views, which I don't generally share and never have.  My repulsion is everything to do with his persona.