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Toronto Affect Still to be felt

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Do you want to try again in English ?

I just want to know when we can kick out toulouse, toronto and catalans. I want my insular northern union league. 

New york and ottawa total nonsense. 

Kind regards parky 

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4 hours ago, TheReaper said:

They represent the city of Toronto, by playing for the team and bringing victory to the city. Same as all the players of *whatever* nationalities that play for the Leafs, raptors and blue Jays. Just like all the non-english players playing for Man U or whoever. 

That how pro sports work, I fail to see how nationality is relevant. Ditto for the owners. A team's identity is based on where they play and who they represent.  

Besides, 50% of the city of Toronto wasn't born in Canada,  so I'd say people from other countries representing them is especially apt.

"A team's identity is based on where it plays" - TOWolfpack have played mostly in the UK?

"50% of the city of Toronto wasn't born in Canada,  so I'd say people from other countries representing them is especially apt". - Fair enough, but if you had 50% Canadian Players that would be a good thing, right?

 

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15 minutes ago, Hemel Stag said:

"A team's identity is based on where it plays" - TOWolfpack have played mostly in the UK?

"50% of the city of Toronto wasn't born in Canada,  so I'd say people from other countries representing them is especially apt". - Fair enough, but if you had 50% Canadian Players that would be a good thing, right?

 

There not canadian then they don't live there. Well thats a joke kick them out. 

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You Canadian fella's shouldn't get involved in all this bowlocks. You're arguing with people who can't see outside their little bubble because they've been looking inwards for over a hundred years.

They can't even imagine how a club might be grown in a new area (or a new country) and have even given up trying to develop their own sport in their own areas (hotbeds!). They are small minded and probably don't even know the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire. They call our game the greatest game, but they don't really believe it. Deep down they think there's something wrong with it, (blaming the game for their failure to grow it), which means new people simply can't be attracted to it, so any attempt to do so is simply a waste of money. They think anyone investing in the development of new clubs in new areas is a fool. They can't afford to give financial support, but they won't even give you people encouragement!

They'll make up any old rubbish about North American clubs having to use home grown players, when, since day-one, they've scoured the Pacific, Africa and (pre 1995) all the Union playing nations, to fill their home town teams with cheap talent rather than invest in the amateur game. They completely ignore the fact that the football (soccer) clubs on their doorsteps are awash with foreign players and almost all big time professional sports clubs are the same, the world over.

What they are desperately trying to disguise (but failing miserably) is the fact that they are afraid. Afraid of being exposed to real competition. Competition in a BIG wide world, that would embrace Rugby League wholeheartedly if it was promoted by people who know what they are doing and have the courage of their convictions to put their money where their mouths are and for once, do it right.

We've had stories recently about salt of the earth fans, who stay away if they think their team are going to get beaten, or boycott a Toronto game in their home town, because they are envious of Toronto's pizzaz. With fans like these, its no wonder our game is struggling. These kind of fans are the reason we need new ones.

I eagerly await the decision on these new clubs. Hopefully Elstone et al will see the potential in what they have to offer and not be hamstrung by the kind of attitudes that have stifled the growth of the greatest game, for over a hundred years. We need new blood, the best the old guard can offer is to eke out a few more years before we are totally eclipsed by the ugly black shadow of RaRa. 

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29 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

You Canadian fella's shouldn't get involved in all this bowlocks. You're arguing with people who can't see outside their little bubble because they've been looking inwards for over a hundred years.

They can't even imagine how a club might be grown in a new area (or a new country) and have even given up trying to develop their own sport in their own areas (hotbeds!). They are small minded and probably don't even know the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire. They call our game the greatest game, but they don't really believe it. Deep down they think there's something wrong with it, (blaming the game for their failure to grow it), which means new people simply can't be attracted to it, so any attempt to do so is simply a waste of money. They think anyone investing in the development of new clubs in new areas is a fool. They can't afford to give financial support, but they won't even give you people encouragement!

They'll make up any old rubbish about North American clubs having to use home grown players, when, since day-one, they've scoured the Pacific, Africa and (pre 1995) all the Union playing nations, to fill their home town teams with cheap talent rather than invest in the amateur game. They completely ignore the fact that the football (soccer) clubs on their doorsteps are awash with foreign players and almost all big time professional sports clubs are the same, the world over.

What they are desperately trying to disguise (but failing miserably) is the fact that they are afraid. Afraid of being exposed to real competition. Competition in a BIG wide world, that would embrace Rugby League wholeheartedly if it was promoted by people who know what they are doing and have the courage of their convictions to put their money where their mouths are and for once, do it right.

We've had stories recently about salt of the earth fans, who stay away if they think their team are going to get beaten, or boycott a Toronto game in their home town, because they are envious of Toronto's pizzaz. With fans like these, its no wonder our game is struggling. These kind of fans are the reason we need new ones.

I eagerly await the decision on these new clubs. Hopefully Elstone et al will see the potential in what they have to offer and not be hamstrung by the kind of attitudes that have stifled the growth of the greatest game, for over a hundred years. We need new blood, the best the old guard can offer is to eke out a few more years before we are totally eclipsed by the ugly black shadow of RaRa. 

Great post, there's just one problem with what you said.

Trying to graft these new and glamorous teams onto the existing small time setup isn't likely to attract the required new fans in the UK, because they can't overcome the game's image of being a small northern sport for northerners that way.  They could in a whole new setup which doesn't include the small time away fan-dependent traditional clubs, but only then.

Edited by Big Picture

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Great post, there's one problem with what you said.

Trying to graft these new and glamorous teams onto the existing small time setup isn't likely to attract the required new fans in the UK, because they can't overcome the game's image of being a small northern sport for northerners that way.  They could in a whole new setup which doesn't include the small time away fan-dependent traditional clubs, but only then.

Has Scotchy asked you about how Leeds,Wigan and Saints will remain in your big new RL world ?

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49 minutes ago, Hemel Stag said:

"A team's identity is based on where it plays" - TOWolfpack have played mostly in the UK?

Meaning Lamport Stadium...  IE where they serve their fans.

Edited by TheReaper

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5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Has Scotchy asked you about how Leeds,Wigan and Saints will remain in your big new RL world ?

They'd remain right where they are, playing the same opponents as always in the same league as always.

Edited by Big Picture

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Just now, Big Picture said:

They're remain right where they are, playing the same opponents as always in the same league as always.

Well next time you bump into Scotchy on here , tell him will you 

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31 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Great post, there's just one problem with what you said.

Trying to graft these new and glamorous teams onto the existing small time setup isn't likely to attract the required new fans in the UK, because they can't overcome the game's image of being a small northern sport for northerners that way.  They could in a whole new setup which doesn't include the small time away fan-dependent traditional clubs, but only then.

Hey buddy! If it wasn't for the M62  corridor you wouldn't have a team. When you are in a position to start dictating what should be,I'll let you know.

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But we have Wolfpack Beer!

Wolfpack beer!.jpg

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They love the Northern Union, they don't even know they do.......they hate the North of England with a passion 'small time this........small town that'.......'Can't afford this.....xenophobia that'...we know who'll get the blame when it all goes pair shaped......not the oh so glamourous teams with the millionaire / billionaire (don't know the difference, that's why us working class broke away from Yawnion in the 1st Place  probably) owners, it'll be us fans (who need replacing anyway, apparently) 

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6 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Hey buddy! If it wasn't for the M62  corridor you wouldn't have a team. When you are in a position to start dictating what should be,I'll let you know.

Exactly now when will widnes and leigh be back in top flight kick catalans out bring nothing to comp.  i prefer my northern union comp any day if week.

Just not sure when leigh and widnes will go broke.

 

Kind regards parky 

 

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3 minutes ago, winnyason said:

Exactly now when will widnes and leigh be back in top flight kick catalans out bring nothing to comp.  i prefer my northern union comp any day if week.

Just not sure when leigh and widnes will go broke.

 

Kind regards parky 

 

They won't.

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1 minute ago, SL17 said:

They won't.

Thats great .. i really hate this pie in the sky usa stuff too. I can't wait til widnes fans online bully martin offiah to donate again very professional. 

I hate the glamorous dragons running around will all these imports playing in spain they bring nothing. When will they see they light. 

Kind regards parky 

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1 minute ago, winnyason said:

Thats great .. i really hate this pie in the sky usa stuff too. I can't wait til widnes fans online bully martin offiah to donate again very professional. 

I hate the glamorous dragons running around will all these imports playing in spain they bring nothing. When will they see they light. 

Kind regards parky 

They nearly didn't at one point,hence the parachute payment put in place by SL clubs for, just in case. So that clearly should have sent a message out to you.

The game is a different scenario now. If TWP are accepted by SL, then good luck to them. But I doubt that will ever happen.

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15 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

North American financial investment in the game could actually be found through a variety of ways. TV as you say is the obvious - but Sponsorship & Direct investment - rich people sometimes like to have a toy to splash their money on, football and RU certainly have it, in that world RL is relatively cheap. 

Sorry Tommy but your changing the goalposts as everyone does to get around the reality. The criteria for bringing extra money into the game as a whole is develop more pro-players to stock more teams and sell those extra pro teams to TV for more money. Then put that money in the pool for all to share.

It isn’t overseas owners personal  “sponsorship”, it isn’t “just rich people wanting a toy” we need. If it was, all Argylle or any rich person has to do is sponsor Superleague for £11,000,000 a season or better still just offer the 11 other clubs £1Million each for the purchase of a place in Superleague. Then they get to play with their toy without having to do the hard work and develop any players or TV deals.

You’ll end up with a total farce. And the rejection of North American clubs is exactly that – to stop a load of alleged rich playboys coming in, offering nothing of substance, then swanning off when they get bored. 

6 hours ago, TheReaper said:

They represent the city of Toronto, by playing for the team and bringing victory to the city. Same as all the players of *whatever* nationalities that play for the Leafs, raptors and blue Jays. Just like all the non-english players playing for Man U or whoever. That how pro sports work, I fail to see how.................

Of course you conveniently fail to see that the pro-sports you quote do not have a problem with a lack of quality players. Like Tommy above you see only what you want to see and not reality. What players we have are just enough to support the game here. You lot leach off the game here you'll suck the blood out of it mate.

3 hours ago, RobertAM said:

who cares about all this claptrap..I just want to enjoy the game of Rugby League and watch it spread across the world. 

Now that is the claptrap that has spoiled this forum for years now.

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I eagerly await the decision on these new clubs. Hopefully Elstone et al will see the potential in what they have to offer. We need new blood.......... 

In 2019 Penrith will field a staggering 9000 junior players across a record 580 teams, including 54 female sides”. As I understand it TWP’s junior development programme still stands at zero players in their third year, but worse than that they haven't signed to Canada RL to even start any development. So no "new blood" at all in Toronto now or in the future eh? What an offer that is!!

Edited by The Parksider
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4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's you guy's in Canada who want to join us in England, I can't recall the invitation ever being given!

Don't recall you fellas ever complaining in WW1 and WW2.

You just don't get it Harry...Canada is a child of England...all growed up and coming back home as an adult after making our way in the New World...its our home as well as our Mothers...and we are coming flush with cash Ma...flush with the green stuff! 

You are like the grumpy Old Man who is mad we left the sharecropper farm in the first place and doesn't properly welcome a good Son home.

WHAT DO YA WANT MA?..WHAT CAN I GET YA MA?

cash.jpg

Edited by Kayakman
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10 minutes ago, SL17 said:

They nearly didn't at one point,hence the parachute payment put in place by SL clubs for, just in case. So that clearly should have sent a message out to you.

The game is a different scenario now. If TWP are accepted by SL, then good luck to them. But I doubt that will ever happen.

Yeah we see. Away from parody remarks. I can see the fear by many with the usa expansion thoughts. I suppose my way of looking can we not embrace both expansion and tradition.

Look at the way castleford recovered both on and off the field. From yo yoing from superleague to champ. To making gf fews years ago.

Imo a 2nd french side in superleague has more merit than any of this. Purely for reach of toulouse and stadiums they have access to. England need a decent side to play on there doorstep and i believe this won't happen til toulouse play sl its a waste even having matches until then. 

The usa/canada thing - look great on the surface but my way if there all these other sides lining up philly, hamiton along with new york, Ottawa and existing wp. Why don't they simply look at they own league. As a code lets bring them in BUT there needs to be plan for there own pro league. 

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53 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

They love the Northern Union, they don't even know they do.......they hate the North of England with a passion 'small time this........small town that'.......'Can't afford this.....xenophobia that'...we know who'll get the blame when it all goes pair shaped......not the oh so glamourous teams with the millionaire / billionaire (don't know the difference, that's why us working class broke away from Yawnion in the 1st Place  probably) owners, it'll be us fans (who need replacing anyway, apparently) 

People over here like England...especially the North.  Many people (including myself) have deep historical roots there...I think you are not properly dealing with many other issues exposed in your post, unrelated to the Wolfpack or Canada at all.

You've got to get a grip on this inferiority complex you are displaying....Come to Toronto for a game!...relax in the famous beer garden!..watch the Pack run and then kill!....its a nice way to pass the time and it will make you relax a bit!

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1 hour ago, RobertAM said:

But we have Wolfpack Beer!

Wolfpack beer!.jpg

Not fair! We only have milk.

 

023A5163-2496-4C0C-8202-BA992CD02B3C.jpeg

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43 minutes ago, winnyason said:

Yeah we see. Away from parody remarks. I can see the fear by many with the usa expansion thoughts. I suppose my way of looking can we not embrace both expansion and tradition.

Look at the way castleford recovered both on and off the field. From yo yoing from superleague to champ. To making gf fews years ago.

Imo a 2nd french side in superleague has more merit than any of this. Purely for reach of toulouse and stadiums they have access to. England need a decent side to play on there doorstep and i believe this won't happen til toulouse play sl its a waste even having matches until then. 

The usa/canada thing - look great on the surface but my way if there all these other sides lining up philly, hamiton along with new york, Ottawa and existing wp. Why don't they simply look at they own league. As a code lets bring them in BUT there needs to be plan for there own pro league. 

All fair comments and I respect them all. The biggest question being the player pool? We are still guilty of not producing players in quantity and that is based on many factors that have been dictated too, by the way the sport decided to go.

It is time for change. Is the answer NA,US? At present, no! But its all the game has to go on.

If it looks right,it probably is right...

 

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33 minutes ago, SL17 said:

All fair comments and I respect them all. The biggest question being the player pool? We are still guilty of not producing players in quantity and that is based on many factors that have been dictated too, by the way the sport decided to go.

It is time for change. Is the answer NA,US? At present, no! But its all the game has to go on.

If it looks right,it probably is right...

 

The code biggest opportunity for expanding pro player pool is pacific but you would not say there 100 pro players waiting at the airport.

France while starting to produce geniune stars in gigot and fages hav been slow to develop and really not enough. 

The main issue with wolfpack and 2 other usa expansions. Is there simply little or no development happening behind the scenes nor in canada is it being planned. Wolfpack aligning themselves with rugby union. For instance if dragons or toulouse went back to elite or the famed super xiii was started, there still a line of juniors and around 80 to 90 clubs. 

Canada and the wolfpack needs to start to with credibilty develop a strong local league. Jamacia has alot more domestic happening. If wolfpack where to fall over the fans would simply walk away or switch to watch the national rugby u side. 

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2 hours ago, winnyason said:

Yeah we see. Away from parody remarks. I can see the fear by many with the usa expansion thoughts. I suppose my way of looking can we not embrace both expansion and tradition.

Look at the way castleford recovered both on and off the field. From yo yoing from superleague to champ. To making gf fews years ago.

Imo a 2nd french side in superleague has more merit than any of this. Purely for reach of toulouse and stadiums they have access to. England need a decent side to play on there doorstep and i believe this won't happen til toulouse play sl its a waste even having matches until then. 

The usa/canada thing - look great on the surface but my way if there all these other sides lining up philly, hamiton along with new york, Ottawa and existing wp. Why don't they simply look at they own league. As a code lets bring them in BUT there needs to be plan for there own pro league. 

I agree with you, they should look at their own league because the likes of Toronto and New York playing in the UK structure is a mix of oil and water in so many ways.

Understand though, that because their whole marketing approach is based on the transatlantic aspect of things that league would have to be transatlantic too.  It would need teams in places like London and other big cities over there to go along with the Torontos and New Yorks and attract the kind of TV and sponsorship money needed to underwrite it.

Edited by Big Picture

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