Peterborough By Election

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

17 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Under May they have definitely been more New Labour than Tory, which is very unfortunate and I hope that drift comes to an end under the next leader (although at the moment I am not too hopeful).

Most Tory MPs are indeed pro-remain.  The membership is largely pro-leave.  The voters of late have been mainly pro-leave.  May's lies and irresponsibility have led to the very split in the leave vote I mentioned in the post you referred to, a split which was reflected in the Peterborough by-election and which let in Labour by the back door, something I would not want to see at a general election which is why I would vote Tory in a GE now that May has gone (although if her replacement was as bad or worse then I reserve the right to change my mind on that!) even if it meant holding my nose because the drift to the left continued.

You must be the only person I know that thinks the Tory Party is moving leftward. Even the dogs in the street can see that the reality of the situation is the complete opposite. How many of the candidates for PM could be said to be even slightly left of centre ? The recent moves to de-select well known centre left Tories like Dominic Grieve etc proves to me that the lurch to the right started over 40 years ago is just continuing. 

[Niels]

4 hours ago, Just Browny said:

I can see her name on the list, next to the number 1.

This article explains the difference between the closed and open voting system. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-48198648

[shaun mc]

On 08/06/2019 at 11:15, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You must be the only person I know that thinks the Tory Party is moving leftward. Even the dogs in the street can see that the reality of the situation is the complete opposite. How many of the candidates for PM could be said to be even slightly left of centre ? The recent moves to de-select well known centre left Tories like Dominic Grieve etc proves to me that the lurch to the right started over 40 years ago is just continuing. 

Some of the stuff about the Tories going leftwards is pure comedy gold. Look at the posts towards a true Tory such as Ken Clarke on here. He's a decent man with a conscience and he's villified. Rory Stewart has the same social concerns, and he'll only pass round 1.Hancick has also stated about claiming the centre ground and he has the same chance as Stewart. The darlings are JRM the victorian mill owner caricature who must be on extended gardening leave. Why hasn't a true no deal remainer played his card in the election and gone ahead with what the small number of 57year old white males want to hear? The gradual drift to the right began with austerity, gathered pace with racist pieces by Johnson and continues with JRG and the Tories voting for a right wing fascist such as Farage but are ok going back to mater at GE time. Then there's Mark Francois after he's had a beer or 6....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Yeah Francois polished his drinking skills in the TA Catering Corps. 

[gingerjon]

Raising the higher rate tax threshold from 50k for 80k for no reason other than to raise the higher rate tax threshold.

That is, apparently, what the Brexit dividend (I know) is going to pay for.

[ckn]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Raising the higher rate tax threshold from 50k for 80k for no reason other than to raise the higher rate tax threshold.

That is, apparently, what the Brexit dividend (I know) is going to pay for.

That’s £6000 a year of a tax cut for anyone earning £80k. £0 for anyone earning under £50k. Compassionate conservatism. 

And if it raises all the thresholds above it by the same then that’ll be even greater tax cuts for those earning over £100k. 

By the rich, for the wealthy and seal-clapped by the poor who vote Tory. 

[tim2]

10 hours ago, ckn said:

That’s £6000 a year of a tax cut for anyone earning £80k. £0 for anyone earning under £50k. Compassionate conservatism. 

And if it raises all the thresholds above it by the same then that’ll be even greater tax cuts for those earning over £100k. 

By the rich, for the wealthy and seal-clapped by the poor who vote Tory. 

Boris is going straight from the Trump playbook. Lying? Doesn't matter. Racist? Doesn't matter. Womaniser in the party of "family values"? Doesn't matter. Hypocrite? Doesn't matter. Saying you're the voice of the people while cutting taxes for the rich? No problem. 

It worked for Trump but are there enough Tory MPs to stop him before the vote goes to the blue rinse/Bufton Tufton brigade who lap his rhetoric up?

[Griff9of13]

3 minutes ago, tim2 said:

Boris is going straight from the Trump playbook. Lying? Doesn't matter. Racist? Doesn't matter. Womaniser in the party of "family values"? Doesn't matter. Hypocrite? Doesn't matter. Saying you're the voice of the people while cutting taxes for the rich? No problem. 

This is the bit I find it hard to get my head around. All those things you list; lying, cheating, womanising, drug taking, violence (he once tried to get a journalist beaten up) all of them go directly against what would be once considered core Tory values and yet here he is touted to be the next party leader. What has happened to the Tory party that it has shifted so far away from those values? It is now looking to out UKIP UKIP.

[Mister Ting]

19 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

This is the bit I find it hard to get my head around. All those things you list; lying, cheating, womanising, drug taking, violence (he once tried to get a journalist beaten up) all of them go directly against what would be once considered core Tory values and yet here he is touted to be the next party leader. What has happened to the Tory party that it has shifted so far away from those values? It is now looking to out UKIP UKIP.

Hasn't that always been the raison d'etre of the tory party?

[shrek]

14 hours ago, ckn said:

That’s £6000 a year of a tax cut for anyone earning £80k.

Unless your live in Scotland!

[Saintslass]

4 hours ago, tim2 said:

Boris is going straight from the Trump playbook. Lying? Doesn't matter. Racist? Doesn't matter. Womaniser in the party of "family values"? Doesn't matter. Hypocrite? Doesn't matter. Saying you're the voice of the people while cutting taxes for the rich? No problem. 

It worked for Trump but are there enough Tory MPs to stop him before the vote goes to the blue rinse/Bufton Tufton brigade who lap his rhetoric up?

Such a silly post but I'll try to take it seriously.

First of all, from the POV of a member of the Tory party, which I am at present, I can assure you that there is no lapping up going on.  Granted, some folk have consistently wanted Johnson as PM regardless of his weaknesses (to put it nicely) but mostly, based on wide-ranging discussions I've had with fellow members of the Tory party as well as other interested people, what this all boils down to is who could challenge both Corbyn and Farage simultaneously in a political street fight.  

Personally, while I think Boris is the best campaigner the Tories have and while I think he can be very entertaining and good to listen to, I cringe to think that the Tories are even considering him or pretty much any of the people who have put themselves forward.  On the one hand there is the renegade Johnson and on the other the establishment manager Hunt.  There's a right hodge podge in the middle.

The days of the Tories being the party of family values, etc, etc have long gone because they've vanished in the country as a whole.  Everything is now relative and the narrative is all about identity, not wholesome stuff like running through wheat and family values.  

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Such a silly post but I'll try to take it seriously.

First of all, from the POV of a member of the Tory party, which I am at present, I can assure you that there is no lapping up going on.  Granted, some folk have consistently wanted Johnson as PM regardless of his weaknesses (to put it nicely) but mostly, based on wide-ranging discussions I've had with fellow members of the Tory party as well as other interested people, what this all boils down to is who could challenge both Corbyn and Farage simultaneously in a political street fight.  

Personally, while I think Boris is the best campaigner the Tories have and while I think he can be very entertaining and good to listen to, I cringe to think that the Tories are even considering him or pretty much any of the people who have put themselves forward.  On the one hand there is the renegade Johnson and on the other the establishment manager Hunt.  There's a right hodge podge in the middle.

The days of the Tories being the party of family values, etc, etc have long gone because they've vanished in the country as a whole.  Everything is now relative and the narrative is all about identity, not wholesome stuff like running through wheat and family values.  

Ok I’ll just address your last point, the tories are the main reason for the decline of family values, how are working class family values meant to survive a vicious and deliberate onslaught of austerity and the tory philosophies of “no such thing as society” and “me me me”? 

[Just Browny]

7 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Such a silly post but I'll try to take it seriously.

First of all, from the POV of a member of the Tory party, which I am at present, I can assure you that there is no lapping up going on.  Granted, some folk have consistently wanted Johnson as PM regardless of his weaknesses (to put it nicely) but mostly, based on wide-ranging discussions I've had with fellow members of the Tory party as well as other interested people, what this all boils down to is who could challenge both Corbyn and Farage simultaneously in a political street fight.  

Personally, while I think Boris is the best campaigner the Tories have and while I think he can be very entertaining and good to listen to, I cringe to think that the Tories are even considering him or pretty much any of the people who have put themselves forward.  On the one hand there is the renegade Johnson and on the other the establishment manager Hunt.  There's a right hodge podge in the middle.

The days of the Tories being the party of family values, etc, etc have long gone because they've vanished in the country as a whole.  Everything is now relative and the narrative is all about identity, not wholesome stuff like running through wheat and family values.  

Despite personally finding Johnson about as entertaining as a three-hour Rob Andrew career highlights video, there is actually a lot in there that makes sense.

[tim2]

10 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Such a silly post but I'll try to take it seriously.

First of all, from the POV of a member of the Tory party, which I am at present, I can assure you that there is no lapping up going on.  Granted, some folk have consistently wanted Johnson as PM regardless of his weaknesses (to put it nicely) but mostly, based on wide-ranging discussions I've had with fellow members of the Tory party as well as other interested people, what this all boils down to is who could challenge both Corbyn and Farage simultaneously in a political street fight.  

Personally, while I think Boris is the best campaigner the Tories have and while I think he can be very entertaining and good to listen to, I cringe to think that the Tories are even considering him or pretty much any of the people who have put themselves forward.  On the one hand there is the renegade Johnson and on the other the establishment manager Hunt.  There's a right hodge podge in the middle.

The days of the Tories being the party of family values, etc, etc have long gone because they've vanished in the country as a whole.  Everything is now relative and the narrative is all about identity, not wholesome stuff like running through wheat and family values.  

You are clearly, except perhaps in age that I am guessing based on reading a lot of your posts, not an average or typical member of the Conservative party. Boris is the clear favourite to win if it goes to the members. According to a long and vicious article by Matthew Parris in The Times last week many MPs are considering backing Boris as all his faults have already been "factored in" and he is the guy who can beat Corbyn and probably do a deal with Farage.

We, as a nation, should be appalled that a man like him gets anywhere near the highest office in the land. He has no capacity for detail, is an international joke and cannot be trusted.

And by the way, the Tories still play the "values" card when it suits them.