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Boycotting Aussie national anthem

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43 minutes ago, Copa said:

When I lived in the US there was an American made documentary on TV about how white Australians view indigenous Australians. They did a lot of interviews with people on the street and the attitudes displayed were overtly and unashamedly racist. Actual racist terms were used by people lacking any self awareness. This was on a major tv network in the US. 

A loud minority of Australians just want indigenous people to “know their place” and to stop complaining because, the theme goes, if you give them and inch they’ll take a mile.

They used to get hysterical that they’d “steal” all of our land if they got land rights, now they get hysterical about indigenous people and sympathisers suggesting the date for the  national day should not be on the date many indigenous people think the invasion began.

This was published today by news limited in Australia... 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/origin/leave-our-aussie-anthem-alone/news-story/93ad110c3b629627ed83e62eb95574bc

the general theme of the article is that indigenous Australians are eternal complainers, should not be listened to as they’ll never be happy and that they should be ignored. The author has actually hijacked indigenous injustice and exclusion to selfishly shoehorn their own politics into the debate.... when all they should do is just genuinely listen.. 

 

 

One of the problems you have Copa was reflected in last months Election results.

People are tired of being told we are not green enough, not being politically correct enough, tired of not feeling guilty for historically wrongs that others have done.

Most people are concerned about feeding their kids, keeping their jobs and having a reasonably modest lifestyle.

The current thread in Australia is that most Men are bastards that abuse their wife's and will rape any passer by.

The average Joe that is none of the above get sick of it all.

Call out the problem people but let the rest get on with their battling lives without some sort of guilt put against them.

 


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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I agree with your post Copa...that is how I found it to be when I was there too.   These people want their voices to be heard...best to listen now and save alot of problems down the line...I don't think it is going to play out that way though.

Edited by Kayakman
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59 minutes ago, Copa said:

When I lived in the US there was an American made documentary on TV about how white Australians view indigenous Australians. They did a lot of interviews with people on the street and the attitudes displayed were overtly and unashamedly racist. Actual racist terms were used by people lacking any self awareness. This was on a major tv network in the US. 

 

The openly overt racism is what shocked me, i encountered it on many occasions and was quite taken aback....would not be acceptable in the equivalent Canadian society....simply not on.

Edited by Kayakman

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4 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

The openly overt racism is what shocked me, i encountered it on many occasions and was quite taken aback....would not be acceptable in the equivalent Canadian society....simply not on.

When was that in the 1960's?

I have seen two South African heritage employees sacked on the spot from my Company of around 100 staff for making slightly racist statements that would have been clapped on the Benny Hill Show a couple of decades ago. 

Edited by Allora

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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22 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

avoid the triumphalism and hubris

I think President Triumph has gone home, so it's probably safe to come out now.

As for Hubris, that's a very nice addition to a Greek salad, or just with dipping nibbles.

Image result for hummus

 

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22 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Billy Connolly was right.

Our anthem (UK) it's the most de-motivating I have ever heard!

 

Somebody told me the "tune" came from Germany, where it is or was used as a Funeral March. 😭

Edited by Hemel Stag
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Yes it's a dirge but more than that, any decent anthem would celebrate all that's good about the country, it's natural beauty and resources, the freedom and equality of opportunity for its people, it's commitment to steady growing prosperity for all, (much like the Aussie anthem) rather than a shamefully embarrassing and grovelling acceptance of and commitment to a medieval hierarchical, system created and foisted on its people (and an empire by force), that is the very antithesis of a modern free country.

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6 hours ago, Allora said:

When was that in the 1960's?

I have seen two South African heritage employees sacked on the spot from my Company of around 100 staff for making slightly racist statements that would have been clapped on the Benny Hill Show a couple of decades ago. 

Oh I would add roughly 40-50 years on that.

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8 hours ago, Allora said:

One of the problems you have Copa was reflected in last months Election results.

People are tired of being told we are not green enough, not being politically correct enough, tired of not feeling guilty for historically wrongs that others have done.

Most people are concerned about feeding their kids, keeping their jobs and having a reasonably modest lifestyle.

The current thread in Australia is that most Men are bastards that abuse their wife's and will rape any passer by.

The average Joe that is none of the above get sick of it all.

Call out the problem people but let the rest get on with their battling lives without some sort of guilt put against them.

 

“Politically correct” means different things to different people. 

I just think people need to be better listeners when someone says “I think we have a problem” instead of conflating it with their own issues of the day and being dismissive.

The average Joe who isn’t a nasty wife beating rapist has zero reason to be upset. I don’t feel targeted. Never have.

When growing up on the Central Coast my school mate had to flee Australia (They lived in Kincumber) because of the appalling mistreatment her family was receiving from Australians. A white family fleeing to New Zealand to escape persecution.  

The issue,  sister got HIV/AIDS from a blood transfusion. Being abused and spat at in the street wasn’t unusual. Zero support from many politicians also. The nasty stuff came on the street and in the nightly news broadcasts where people who should know better showed their bad side.

NZ welcomed them with open arms and treated them with compassion. Her name is Eve van Grafhorst. When Australians don’t understand something they can get extremely nasty.

In NZ, with the same level of knowledge about AIDS/HIV, they were treated extremely well and with compassion. NZ’s compassion compared to Australia’s nastiness was international news.

Anyway, I digress. I guess I’m trying to say, there’s a real angry nasty streak in parts of Australian society. I’ve seen it. Society is changing though to be better for women, gays (just a few decades ago you could throw gay people off cliffs in Sydney and the police would do little about it) and other people but it’s not going to be easy.

People feel defensive, angry, unjustly targeted (sometimes that’s just in their head) or that change it too much to handle.

Indigenous recognition and inclusion is gonna be one of the harder ones to improve. 

Edited by Copa

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On ‎05‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 15:24, fighting irish said:

Billy Connolly was right.

Our anthem (UK) it's the most de-motivating I have ever heard!

couldn't agree more, if you have to have an anthem then it should be about the country not a person,

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1 hour ago, Copa said:

“Politically correct” means different things to different people. 

I just think people need to be better listeners when someone says “I think we have a problem” instead of conflating it with their own issues of the day and being dismissive.

The average Joe who isn’t a nasty wife beating rapist has zero reason to be upset. I don’t feel targeted. Never have.

When growing up on the Central Coast my school mate had to flee Australia (They lived in Kincumber) because of the appalling mistreatment her family was receiving from Australians. A white family fleeing to New Zealand to escape persecution.  

The issue,  sister got HIV/AIDS from a blood transfusion. Being abused and spat at in the street wasn’t unusual. Zero support from many politicians also. The nasty stuff came on the street and in the nightly news broadcasts where people who should know better showed their bad side.

NZ welcomed them with open arms and treated them with compassion. Her name is Eve van Grafhorst. When Australians don’t understand something they can get extremely nasty.

In NZ, with the same level of knowledge about AIDS/HIV, they were treated extremely well and with compassion. NZ’s compassion compared to Australia’s nastiness was international news.

Anyway, I digress. I guess I’m trying to say, there’s a real angry nasty streak in parts of Australian society. I’ve seen it. Society is changing though to be better for women, gays (just a few decades ago you could throw gay people off cliffs in Sydney and the police would do little about it) and other people but it’s not going to be easy.

People feel defensive, angry, unjustly targeted (sometimes that’s just in their head) or that change it too much to handle.

Indigenous recognition and inclusion is gonna be one of the harder ones to improve. 

I can only speak from my experience and I have not come across any of what you describe.

I know the story of Eve van Grafhorst but that one incident related to fear and ignorance is not indicative of a Nations morals or the majorities outlook.

Anyway, moving on.

 

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Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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10 hours ago, Kayakman said:

The openly overt racism is what shocked me, i encountered it on many occasions and was quite taken aback....would not be acceptable in the equivalent Canadian society....simply not on.

Similar to correctness, racism can often be perceived where not intended. Your interpretation of an Australian’s racism may simply in fact be jovial banter welcome to reciprocation. This is where people predominantly mistake Australia for being racist. 

None more so than identified by The 12th Man as below video. An absolutely hilarious account of sports commentary that many these days would simply clamber for apologies and victimisation and racism.

I am not saying racism does not exist, but to call it prevalent in one of the world’s most multi-cultural countries is simply an ill informed opinion.

 

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13 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Similar to correctness, racism can often be perceived where not intended. Your interpretation of an Australian’s racism may simply in fact be jovial banter welcome to reciprocation. This is where people predominantly mistake Australia for being racist. 

None more so than identified by The 12th Man as below video. An absolutely hilarious account of sports commentary that many these days would simply clamber for apologies and victimisation and racism.

I am not saying racism does not exist, but to call it prevalent in one of the world’s most multi-cultural countries is simply an ill informed opinion.

 

I didn't listen to the whole thing but enough of it to get the idea.  This wasn't the type of racism that I was referring to and I do agree with your statement that racism can be perceived where it was not intended (happens all the time)....

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40 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Similar to correctness, racism can often be perceived where not intended. Your interpretation of an Australian’s racism may simply in fact be jovial banter welcome to reciprocation. This is where people predominantly mistake Australia for being racist. 

None more so than identified by The 12th Man as below video. An absolutely hilarious account of sports commentary that many these days would simply clamber for apologies and victimisation and racism.

I am not saying racism does not exist, but to call it prevalent in one of the world’s most multi-cultural countries is simply an ill informed opinion.

 

There’s a parallel world in Australia that the good well behaved accepting mainstream doesn’t see. They have no idea how horrible people who look and sound like them can be.

Just last week on Canberra’s new light rail an African migrant I know was traveling with their young child and someone lent across, pointed at both of them and, with the finger pointing at the small child, said “You are both pieces of sh*t”. 

At my high school reunion only a couple of non-whites turned up. I asked my friend why he didn’t want to attend and he said the racism was never ending. His sister also used to be spat at from passing school buses quite frequently and have racist abuse yelled also. They were from South America.

It’s a different world outside of certain parts of Sydney and Melbourne.

I saw and heard some bad things in rural US in the 80s when I lived there and I have seen similar in Australia.

 I work in a professional environment, people are generally fantastic with regards to attitudes to all cohorts of people except for one, indigenous Australians.

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23 hours ago, Sparse Attendance said:

I don’t mind standing up for the NZ/Oz and any other national anthem that’s played at a sporting event (bar the British one). But if they change it i then might change my mind. I’d like to hear “Nagasaki Nightmare”

Get you, with your (semi) obscure 1980 anarchist punk singles....shocking choice though, Big A Little A was far superiour! Do they owe us a living would be much better 🙂

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On 05/06/2019 at 19:42, Cheshire Setter said:

“Hey Ron, what would you like me to do next?” 😁

I appreciate this is off topic but what she and Regan did was destroy the Soviet Union and bring countries like Poland Estonia etc and other Warsaw Pact countries into the West and NATO.  Others of course helped and others frustrated this endeavour. 

As for national anthems, for the record I am happy to stand for it and will always join a toast 'to The Queen, Duke of Lancaster.'  !!

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10 hours ago, Gray1967 said:

Get you, with your (semi) obscure 1980 anarchist punk singles....shocking choice though, Big A Little A was far superiour! Do they owe us a living would be much better 🙂

Semi-obscure ! Id say very-obscure. But not in my house. No id still go with the tunes i chose, although id like to hear “heart-throb of the mortuary (live version though)played at Wembley. Or “the queen is dead - the smiths “. 

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On 07/06/2019 at 11:42, Sparse Attendance said:

Semi-obscure ! Id say very-obscure. But not in my house. No id still go with the tunes i chose, although id like to hear “heart-throb of the mortuary (live version though)played at Wembley. Or “the queen is dead - the smiths “. 

American Tune by Paul Simon would make a good anthem for the USA.

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The Scots, Irish and Welsh have been boycotting the British national anthem for years ..... at events where they are representing their individual countries instead of Great Britain then they sing their own anthems, so why do English teams still sing "God save the Queen" (the British anthem) ?

It's as though it's not acceptable to show you are proud of being English.

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Being in denial.

Blaming everyone and everything.

Coming to illogical conclusions based on false premises.

Used singly or together they're a recipe for hatred and prejudice.

"Most of Our People are Nice" is a number one song while Rome is burning.

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On 07/06/2019 at 06:51, Copa said:

I just think people need to be better listeners when someone says “I think we have a problem” instead of conflating it with their own issues of the day and being dismissive.

To bad you don't practise what you preach... You are literally doing exactly what you are decrying here.

You've had multiple other Australians come to you and say "I think we have a problem” and you've ignored all of them and effectively asserted that their problems aren't really problems, then turned the discussion towards unfalsifiable anecdotes of racism (most of which happened years ago and realistically don't represent modern Australia).

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

"Most of Our People are Nice" is a number one song while Rome is burning.

We have a chronic problem in Australia (and I know for a fact that you have the same one in the UK) of people collectivising people and then assigning guilt to people because they are part of said collective and "they are guilty because of what they are" was the number one song that was playing while tens of millions of people were butchered in Germany, the USSR, China, etc, etc, in the 20th century, and the same excuses that were used to justify said butchering are now being used in Australia to justify all sorts of things.

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

We have a chronic problem in Australia (and I know for a fact that you have the same one in the UK) of people collectivising people and then assigning guilt to people because they are part of said collective and "they are guilty because of what they are" was the number one song that was playing while tens of millions of people were butchered in Germany, the USSR, China, etc, etc, in the 20th century, and the same excuses that were used to justify said butchering are now being used in Australia to justify all sorts of things.

 

Collectivising is a good word for it the nouns may change but the sentiment never alters.

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

To bad you don't practise what you preach... You are literally doing exactly what you are decrying here.

You've had multiple other Australians come to you and say "I think we have a problem” and you've ignored all of them and effectively asserted that their problems aren't really problems, then turned the discussion towards unfalsifiable anecdotes of racism (most of which happened years ago and realistically don't represent modern Australia).

We have a chronic problem in Australia (and I know for a fact that you have the same one in the UK) of people collectivising people and then assigning guilt to people because they are part of said collective and "they are guilty because of what they are" was the number one song that was playing while tens of millions of people were butchered in Germany, the USSR, China, etc, etc, in the 20th century, and the same excuses that were used to justify said butchering are now being used in Australia to justify all sorts of things.

I’ve listened to you. I think you’re wrong.

If you think indigenous Australians shouldn’t be complaining about things not on your list of approved issues, tell them they are wrong. However, don’t whine like a privileged victim after being called out for it.

I’m a middle aged white guy. I’m not angry at all about people trying to make me feel guilty about anything because I don’t feel targeted at all. Unlike some, I don’t identify myself with the cohorts being targeted.

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Yawn . Can I go a back to the times when I could just enjoy the sport , TV adverts or a film without someone using it as a platform for their view . Just play Rugby and be happy for the opportunity .

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I think there is a whole new set of problems created (on both sides), once we start labeling people, or labeling groups of people.

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