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Robthegasman

Swinton Lions rebrand,and what are other clubs outside Super League doing in anticipation of 2021?

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7 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

A lot has been said here and elsewhere about the rebrand that is happening at Swinton Lions to be known as Manchester Lions on the field in anticipation of the potential loss of funding for clubs outside Super League,and there are certainly some robust opinions on that given what it is.

But what is going on elsewhere at other clubs?are some other clubs looking at rebranding on the field in an attempt to gain a wider audience and new sponsors?are some clubs meeting in secret on a regular basis to discuss mergers be it 2,3 or more way ones?or are some clubs just happy to sit back until the last moment and potentially see themselves either die or become amateur clubs?Of course some may well survive in their current format.

And let’s be frank,it has been suggested that potentially Super League itself could be reduced to 10 clubs depending on the money available(and we all know they will grab it)and it has I believe been suggested that the only division below Super League will be 16 clubs.That therefore means we could see 11 clubs disappear altogether from the competition.

So what is going on with the rest of the clubs then?

And is it a case that Swinton Lions and the Chairman Andy Mazey are the first club to come out and set out their plans,and as such take the bricks that are being thrown at them?

 

If this is a troll RTGM then it is a very detailed one.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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9 minutes ago, Tim Streets tache said:

As a Swinton fan, i have followed all this closely. The board had a secret meeting with "select fans" - mainly Mazeys brownnosing mates. Suddenly this gets leaked in The Sun.

Being a member of numerous fan sites and seeing the chairmans reaction on twiiter and answers to any sort of compromise (Mancherster SL) being one, i think its pretty much a given that the club willl be Manchester Lions next season.

This may not mean much to fans of other clubs, but i think you can understand the frustration of current fans who after nearly 3 decades of not playing in the town, the name Swinton - being the only identity left to the club/town. Their/Our club/town. 

i'm from Sheffield so yes seen my club go on its little travels and disappear up to Huddersfield and out of existence... however, if it needed to change its name to South Yorkshire to give it a better shot I wouldn't care one iota as I would rather do that than the club just die.. 

yes you may have a vested interest etc but you have to look at this realistically too, your post was saying that you hadnt seen anything change.. of course it hasnt as nothing will change until the announcement is official (no matter whether it is a foregone conclusion or not), it also not going to be a flash in the pan solution it is going to take time. 

if you want to push a product then the product needs to be well placed in a market and the name is very important all the marketing in the world can be done but if the name is wrong then it will have no traction.. Manchester could be the difference between the money being pumped in working and it being basically pumped down a drain. 

 

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the decision for someone like Swinton seems stark.. do something to get more people through the doors to pay the bills or slowly die in the next few years (or quickly die depending on the next funding cycle).. it does seem strange to me that fans of a club would prefer that fate to a name change that may (and i stress may) see them survive and perhaps prosper.

(Eagles are very much in the boat of not enough people through the door to potentially be viable so we could easily be told to sling our hook as well in the next year or so, i am not one of those looking from a high and lofty perch thinking "well its not going to happen to us")

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13 minutes ago, RP London said:

the decision for someone like Swinton seems stark.. do something to get more people through the doors to pay the bills or slowly die in the next few years (or quickly die depending on the next funding cycle).. it does seem strange to me that fans of a club would prefer that fate to a name change that may (and i stress may) see them survive and perhaps prosper.

(Eagles are very much in the boat of not enough people through the door to potentially be viable so we could easily be told to sling our hook as well in the next year or so, i am not one of those looking from a high and lofty perch thinking "well its not going to happen to us")

Go on let's be controversial ....

Let the Super League have their 14 clubs and let the rest return to playing in winter ... if nothing else we will have Rugby League 12 months of the year and supporters of any club who are in their own close-season can go and watch matches elsewhere, thus increasing attendances all round.

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Swinton sadly have very low Crowds and fan base. I am guessing that selling "Swinton" to people is difficult, especially as the Club plays and functions in an area not really near to the Swinton area. I can understand the frustration/anger of Swinton fans on the name change. But is it better to have the Club survive under another name or risk the Club completely disappearing in a year or two? ALL Championship Clubs need to make some harsh decisions in the coming years, as they will receive less money from the RFL etc. Mr Mazey will no doubt feel he is doing the best to make the Swinton Club survive in some form. Whether that actually happens is to be seen. Maybe if Swinton had some more people on its board with money then Mr Mazey would feel different about the name change. But least he seems to have a plan for the future unlike others in the Championship. That has to be a positive for me.

 

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32 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Go on let's be controversial ....

Let the Super League have their 14 clubs and let the rest return to playing in winter ... if nothing else we will have Rugby League 12 months of the year and supporters of any club who are in their own close-season can go and watch matches elsewhere, thus increasing attendances all round.

Wouldnt go to winter personally.. 

I have no issue with clubs finding and settling to where they are able to be. wherever that may be. but if any have an ambition to grow then they are going to have to do certain things to either get to that level or stay at a level.. its the same with football (which is why clubs go bust) and any other sport.. 

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37 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Go on let's be controversial ....

Let the Super League have their 14 clubs and let the rest return to playing in winter ... if nothing else we will have Rugby League 12 months of the year and supporters of any club who are in their own close-season can go and watch matches elsewhere, thus increasing attendances all round.

gets my vote - but that counts for nothing - I think its the Championship as a whole that needs to take control of its future and do the rebranding at that level - sponsorship, media exposure and yes even a move away from summer rugby. As all Championship club supporters know - all the publicity is focussed on Super League - so how do Championship Clubs generate interest if people outside rugby league only know about Super League ? So its then just the local communities so straight away options are limited in terms of supporter base and sponsorship...…..the same situation exists in the lower divisions of the EFL and club then get acquired by dubious business men as has happened at Bury …………..so as a Swinton supporter (who lives in Manchester) I will still support the team regardless of the name change and wait and see what transpires...…….

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Go on let's be controversial ....

Let the Super League have their 14 clubs and let the rest return to playing in winter ... if nothing else we will have Rugby League 12 months of the year and supporters of any club who are in their own close-season can go and watch matches elsewhere, thus increasing attendances all round.

I understand your sentiment but how would you have promotion and relegation without the top three divisions all playing at the same time? If they all played in summer and everyone else in winter it might work, non-league (for want of a better expression) players / staff could go to watch professional games in summer and in winter fans of professional teams might go to watch NCL games etc - everyone’s a winner. 

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45 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I understand your sentiment but how would you have promotion and relegation without the top three divisions all playing at the same time? If they all played in summer and everyone else in winter it might work, non-league (for want of a better expression) players / staff could go to watch professional games in summer and in winter fans of professional teams might go to watch NCL games etc - everyone’s a winner. 

The idea was just an "off the cuff" suggestion but, yes, promotion/relegation would be an issue. Yet, who might it effect more if there was none ?

In the 24 years of Super League a total of 22 clubs have played in it; 11 of whom have been involved for 15 years or more (that's 10 of the current teams - apart from Catalan and Hull KR - but plus Bradford) while 8 clubs were involved for less than 5 years (of which 3 of those have since folded - Crusaders, Gateshead and Paris).  (See table below which shows up to the end of 2017)

So although, yes, the lower clubs want to strive for the top, is there really much hope of prolonged success when getting there and might those that do then find themselves out of their depth and then start on the far more rocky road down ? Therefore, which might be better for them ... "small fish in big pond" or "big fish in small pond" ?

Yet if the Super League was just left to its own devices then would no automatic relegation be a success or would supporters get fed up of playing the same teams over and over again ? So could it be that the Super League might want those below more than the opposite way round ?  Everyone will have an opinion but until it happens, who really knows ?

All Time Super League table[edit]

Pos. Club Seasons Playoffs P W D L PF PA PD Pts Champions Relegated Challenge Cups
1 Wigancolours.svg Wigan 22 18 599 422 24 184 18,102 11,363 6,739 862 22   19
2 Saintscolours.svg St. Helens 22 20 599 416 15 168 18,214 11,940 6,274 845 13   12
3 Rhinoscolours.svg Leeds 22 19 592 383 15 194 17,025 12,579 4,446 781 11   13
4 Wolvescolours.svg Warrington 22 10 592 311 12 269 15,483 14,178 1,305 634 3   8
5 Bullscolours.svg Bradford 19 11 509 308 17 184 14620 11253 3367 617 6 1 5
6 Hullcolours.svg Hull F.C. 20 12 555 276 21 258 12,991 12,531 460 571 6   5
7 Castleford colours.svg Castleford 21 6 544 237 19 281 12,577 14,054 −1,477 493   2 4
8 Giantscolours.svg Huddersfield 19 8 520 224 13 283 12,049 12,669 620 461 7 1 6
9 Broncoscolours.png London 19 2 509 185 20 304 10793 14229 −3436 390   1  
10 Wcatscolours.svg Wakefield 19 3 524 189 6 329 10,842 14,059 −3,217 346 2   5
11 Redscolours.svg Salford 19 1 508 166 8 334 9,371 13,890 −4,519 332 6 1 1
12 Catalanscolours.svg Catalans 12 6 327 148 10 169 7,671 8,294 −623 306     1
13 HKRcolours.svg Hull KR 10 4 262 114 9 138 5,579 6,040 −461 237 5   1
14 Widnes colours.svg Widnes 10 1 269 94 8 166 5068 7,224 −2,156 196 3 1 7
15 Faxcolours.svg Halifax 8 1 209 76 4 129 4646 5908 −1262 154 4 1 5
16 Sheffeagles colours.svg Sheffield 4 0 97 37 3 57 2027 2663 −636 77   1 1
17 Gthundercolours.svg Gateshead § 1 0 30 19 1 10 775 576 199 39      
18 Cruscolours.svg Crusaders* § 3 1 81 21 0 60 1431 2463 −1032 38      
19 Oldhamcolours.svg Oldham 2 0 44 13 2 29 934 1312 −378 28 4 1 3
20 France colours.svg Paris § 2 0 44 9 1 34 760 1367 −607 19   1  
21 Leigh colours.svg Leigh 2 0 45 8 1 42 954 1144 −190 17 2 2 2
22 Workingtoncolours.svg Workington 1 0 22 2 1 19 325 1021 −696 5 1 1 1

 

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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2 hours ago, Tim Streets tache said:

Perhaps it would of been all different if Bury FC changed to "Manchester Shakers" last year

People in Bury don’t have Manc accents, and it is outside the Manchester ring road (the M60), as is Oldham, Sale, Stockport, Ashton-Under-Lyne etc

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4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Everton have c.50% of the fan base in Liverpool without being called Liverpool, and same with Aston Villa - Swinton can still get fans from elsewhere while being called Swinton. 

Evertons fan base was built over a hundred years ago , and has matured over decades since mostly through family ties , do they still draw in New fans from families with no allegiance to any football club ? 

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2 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Go on let's be controversial ....

Let the Super League have their 14 clubs and let the rest return to playing in winter ... if nothing else we will have Rugby League 12 months of the year and supporters of any club who are in their own close-season can go and watch matches elsewhere, thus increasing attendances all round.

The original SL ' Dream ' 

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2 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Go on let's be controversial ....

Let the Super League have their 14 clubs and let the rest return to playing in winter ... if nothing else we will have Rugby League 12 months of the year and supporters of any club who are in their own close-season can go and watch matches elsewhere, thus increasing attendances all round.

Good idea, except where would you get the players from?

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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40 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

People in Bury don’t have Manc accents, and it is outside the Manchester ring road (the M60), as is Oldham, Sale, Stockport, Ashton-Under-Lyne etc

And they also still play in Bury 

Swinton haven't played in Swinton for how many years ?

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44 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

The idea was just an "off the cuff" suggestion but, yes, promotion/relegation would be an issue. Yet, who might it effect more if there was none ?

In the 24 years of Super League a total of 22 clubs have played in it; 11 of whom have been involved for 15 years or more (that's 10 of the current teams - apart from Catalan and Hull KR - but plus Bradford) while 8 clubs were involved for less than 5 years (of which 3 of those have since folded - Crusaders, Gateshead and Paris).  (See table below which shows up to the end of 2017)

So although, yes, the lower clubs want to strive for the top, is there really much hope of prolonged success when getting there and might those that do then find themselves out of their depth and then start on the far more rocky road down ? Therefore, which might be better for them ... "small fish in big pond" or "big fish in small pond" ?

Yet if the Super League was just left to its own devices then would no automatic relegation be a success or would supporters get fed up of playing the same teams over and over again ? So could it be that the Super League might want those below more than the opposite way round ?  Everyone will have an opinion but until it happens, who really knows ?

All Time Super League table[edit]

Pos. Club Seasons Playoffs P W D L PF PA PD Pts Champions Relegated Challenge Cups
1 Wigancolours.svg Wigan 22 18 599 422 24 184 18,102 11,363 6,739 862 22   19
2 Saintscolours.svg St. Helens 22 20 599 416 15 168 18,214 11,940 6,274 845 13   12
3 Rhinoscolours.svg Leeds 22 19 592 383 15 194 17,025 12,579 4,446 781 11   13
4 Wolvescolours.svg Warrington 22 10 592 311 12 269 15,483 14,178 1,305 634 3   8
5 Bullscolours.svg Bradford 19 11 509 308 17 184 14620 11253 3367 617 6 1 5
6 Hullcolours.svg Hull F.C. 20 12 555 276 21 258 12,991 12,531 460 571 6   5
7 Castleford colours.svg Castleford 21 6 544 237 19 281 12,577 14,054 −1,477 493   2 4
8 Giantscolours.svg Huddersfield 19 8 520 224 13 283 12,049 12,669 620 461 7 1 6
9 Broncoscolours.png London 19 2 509 185 20 304 10793 14229 −3436 390   1  
10 Wcatscolours.svg Wakefield 19 3 524 189 6 329 10,842 14,059 −3,217 346 2   5
11 Redscolours.svg Salford 19 1 508 166 8 334 9,371 13,890 −4,519 332 6 1 1
12 Catalanscolours.svg Catalans 12 6 327 148 10 169 7,671 8,294 −623 306     1
13 HKRcolours.svg Hull KR 10 4 262 114 9 138 5,579 6,040 −461 237 5   1
14 Widnes colours.svg Widnes 10 1 269 94 8 166 5068 7,224 −2,156 196 3 1 7
15 Faxcolours.svg Halifax 8 1 209 76 4 129 4646 5908 −1262 154 4 1 5
16 Sheffeagles colours.svg Sheffield 4 0 97 37 3 57 2027 2663 −636 77   1 1
17 Gthundercolours.svg Gateshead § 1 0 30 19 1 10 775 576 199 39      
18 Cruscolours.svg Crusaders* § 3 1 81 21 0 60 1431 2463 −1032 38      
19 Oldhamcolours.svg Oldham 2 0 44 13 2 29 934 1312 −378 28 4 1 3
20 France colours.svg Paris § 2 0 44 9 1 34 760 1367 −607 19   1  
21 Leigh colours.svg Leigh 2 0 45 8 1 42 954 1144 −190 17 2 2 2
22 Workingtoncolours.svg Workington 1 0 22 2 1 19 325 1021 −696 5 1 1 1

 

I think the GD for Leigh is wrong 

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26 minutes ago, Robthegasman said:

No certainly no troll,I am just wondering what other clubs are doing in anticipation of these changes.

Do you mean the non SL clubs specifically ?

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Do you mean the non SL clubs specifically ?

Here’s a clue from the thread title...

Swinton Lions rebrand,and what are other clubs outside Super League doing in anticipation of 2021?”

 

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- Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga -

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7 minutes ago, Manx RL said:

Here’s a clue from the thread title...

Swinton Lions rebrand,and what are other clubs outside Super League doing in anticipation of 2021?”

 

Manx is getting catty !!! 🐱  .... but he has "no tail" to tell.

 

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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Me as an Oldham fan, I don't know what the future holds at our club beyond these new sky talks. Our club hasn't to my knowledge said anything. I expect it to go bump without central funding and me to support Saddleworth rangers, an Oldham club in the ncl. What I would like know is why would people flock to watch Swinton when it's name is changed to Manchester. The lack of fans may be just down to not as many people being interested in rugby league as they once was. The profile of the game is rubbish and it isn't promoted enough. If things carry on like this the game will die. That's my thoughts anyway. 

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