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https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

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That would be throwing Salford, and others without a full academy, right under the bus. Why not have a year to transition into it and then introduce those stricter rules? We've signed up three young lads already but with our small squad and budget I imagined we would be heavily reliant on giving chances to local amateur players. It is typical that they haven't ironed this out until the last minute.

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17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

So if they DR with Doncaster, it seems they will be taking players from Doncaster to make up their reserve side.Not much benefit to Doncaster in that.Maybe I'm missing something.

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Not sure what Saints are doing with dual reg this year but we've given out some contracts for the reserves.

Looks like a mix of academy products not quite ready for the first team, some ex-academy products who dropped into the lower leagues, and Paul Crook from Oldham as player coach.

With 31 in the first team squad there's potentially 14 available there each week too so I don't think we'll be short on numbers barring a serious injury crisis.

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/11/29/introducing-your-saints-reserve-team-for-2020/

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Newcastle Thunder have got 6 of their reserve games forming double headers with the first team, and at the start of March even have a tripple header scheduled with the Academy and Reserves both playing Hull KR before the first team play Workington.

The best piece of planning though is that the night before magic weekend, as well as the Thunder playing Doncaster, the reserves will also be playing against Leeds. With the Rhinos playing on the Saturday that should hopefull help to add to a bumper night at Kingston Park on the Friday.

https://www.thunderrugby.co.uk/on-field/reserve-grade-opens-away-to-wolves/

 

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  • Tommygilf changed the title to Reserves 2020
3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

The latter points around amateurs and uni players would explain why Fev, Keighley and latterly Halifax were excluded/withdrew. I understand there are also issues around contracting on a "pay as you play" basis. 

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31 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

The latter points around amateurs and uni players would explain why Fev, Keighley and latterly Halifax were excluded/withdrew. I understand there are also issues around contracting on a "pay as you play" basis. 

Did the club come out with any official reason as to why not? 

If Featherstone knew this would be an issue months ago - then why is only be discussed now? Seems a bit funny.

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4 hours ago, gittinsfan said:

So if they DR with Doncaster, it seems they will be taking players from Doncaster to make up their reserve side.Not much benefit to Doncaster in that.Maybe I'm missing something.

When did this happen. Our dual reg with Hull has ended and good riddance. Club Doncaster are now Richard Horne's sole employer.

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1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

Did the club come out with any official reason as to why not? 

If Featherstone knew this would be an issue months ago - then why is only be discussed now? Seems a bit funny.

As I'm sure you're aware, Fev have never made an official statement as to why they did not continue. Why this is, I do not know, however I'd suggest it is fairy routine in terms of how and when the club currently chooses to communicate. Keighley and Halifax both did make statements at the time.

As to why it is only being discussed now, who knows. I'd suggest it's likely because it's only being realised by clubs as they start to recruit and also because it is unlikely to have been clearly communicated by the RFL. That's only my opinion however, not fact.

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5 minutes ago, Rob Nash said:

When did this happen. Our dual reg with Hull has ended and good riddance. Club Doncaster are now Richard Horne's sole employer.

I said " if ".

 

6 minutes ago, Rob Nash said:

When did this happen. Our dual reg with Hull has ended and good riddance. Club Doncaster are now Richard Horne's sole employer.

 

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3 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

It’s going to be a proper **** show and I can’t wait for people to turn on it within a month or so. 

I see you have managed to get a hard start and turn on it before it has started.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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2 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

I recall going to a Salford v Swinton reserve match back in the 80s, when season ticket holders were admitted free, and there were still fewer than 50 at The Willows.

I remember Swinton playing Leeds reserves in a cup final in the 80's at Headingley and Swinton won!

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10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

The regulations need to be signed off by the  RFL Full Council but have been agreed I believe  for quite some time now with the various stakeholders.

The reserve competition is  to be compulsory for the English based SL clubs , who in turn need to be running approved U 18 Academies. They  have up to 75 players  that can be contracted . If any SL clubs  can't do that to turn out 3 sides they need to perhaps consider their positions......

2 amateurs and 2 students can be added . Terms and conditions players are to be abolished. Dual registration will continue but clearly SL clubs are likely to look more carefully at those arrangements as they seek to compete in the Reserve Competition. That competition should be stronger than most Championship matches and certainly much stronger than League 1 ones.

To bring in some balance Championship clubs can have up to 5 amateurs  and League 1 clubs up to 10 . The position will be monitored as the RFL have no intention of letting these proposals dominate squad selections to the extent that some clubs remain / become  ' Pro '  in name only. TV contract and  ongoing central  financial support ( or not ) have been factored in to the thinking....

Amateur players will remain on their community club registers and match payments will be prohibited .  Players will be able to choose if necessary on a weekly basis which club they  make themselves available to play for - it's their game after all !

That's roughly how I believe it's all supposed to pan out though of course I could be well off the mark............

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Reserves have for years been built up as some panacea to developing players, everyone forgot the reasons we scrapped it in the first place and starting remembering through sepia tones things it didnt do. 

Now it's going to come back, people will start remembering the reasons it was scrapped in the first place, it wont do the things people remembered it doing because it never did them in the first place. 

Rather than admit it doesnt work it will be dismissed as poor planning and organisation by the RFL and no investment from the clubs. 

The reality is, it's a bad idea, we will remember it's a bad idea and it will be scrapped within 5 years. 

Reserves were never a bad idea and it was a poor decision to scrap it.

Clubs were short sighted and scrapping it was a quick win to saving a few quid. Hetherington then persuaded his idiot friends in the RFL that DR was the answer to all their problems and both he and the RFL hierarchy 'sold' it to the rest of the clubs. If you want to talk about disaster then DR is what you are looking for !

Reserves provides a good pathway for players to remain with their parent clubs beyond the age limits of the junior ranks and there's no reason why a properly run and fully participated in reserves competition can't grow to be a very strong competition. It will have teams essentially made up of SL players who miss out on the 1st team 17 plus players not quite ready for regular 1st team action. Given most of these players will all be full time its likely to be a higher standard than the Championship before long.

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I am in agreement with Saint Toppy.  We have not seen an open age reserve team structure since 1997 and in that time the professionalism and output of the Academy programmes have increased dramatically. 

Teams like Saints, Wigan and Leeds et al are producing squads of 20/25 talented youngsters every year or two... the Saints kids going to Australia and defeating their NRL junior opponents proving their talent.

At the moment these junior players have a pathway of Super League for their clubs (one or two a year) or DR if they want to stay with their parent club or a move away to find a club.

Now, many more of these players can stay with their parent club into their early 20's.  The reserve league plus the production line of the academies has the potential to significantly improve the player pool in our game.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Just now, Celt said:

'Sensible'  - Really?

I think it sounds pretty embarassing.

2 profeesional clubs having to join up for a second team.  (And inexplicably add in a local part time team).  Absolutely bizarre.

Are Halifax full-time? The narrative aroun their cup run this year was that this was a team made up of part-time players that were working on the Friday and then playing Saints on the Saturday. 

Halifax can continue to run their reserve side and to continue to have players on their books whilst getting them games at a decent enough standard, be it at Reserve level alongside and against largely full-time opposition or at Hunslet in League One. 

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6 hours ago, Celt said:

Devil's Advocate here, but I guess part of the thinking is that if the lower leagues' clubs are so shambolically organised that they can't field full squads, then get the best youngsters all under the pro clubs umbrella asap?

I mean the last place the RFL should want their promising young players is with some 'League 1' club who cannot even field a full side.

What an Alex Sutcliffe (or whoever) might gain is a proper training/coaching environment, alongside good quality professional players, with proper analysis, proper S&C, proper recovery, proper medical etc etc..... in short, all the normal pillars of a performance environment.  These are clearly not going to be available at clubs who send out teams with a 2 man bench. . . 

To play devils advocate on you, Super League players can get all of that professionalism at their contracted clubs whilst training and playing a couple of times a week for a Championship side. 

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The player that I think about in these conversations is Harry Smith. An outstanding Academy player who put in the most dominant display I have seen from a junior half back in the last series against the Australian Schoolboys. 

He is  now reaching an age where he cannot play Academy rugby and he has already been on DR at Swinton and a game at London Skolars.

The question is would a player like Smith develop better as a player on DR with a Championship/League 1 side or with Wigan in their reserves. 

The problem I have with DR is the assumption that all a player needs to improve is game time.  I would argue that what they really need is high quality coaching, professional surroundings and an understanding of what you need to do to be a top quality professional Rugby player.

My view is if Wigan (and others) get the reserve system right Smith would be exposed to better coaches and surrounded by better players than at a DR club... the playing standard is of course part of the equation but only a part.

I am optimistic about what the reserve League could offer our game.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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