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Tommygilf

Reserves 2020

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https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

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That would be throwing Salford, and others without a full academy, right under the bus. Why not have a year to transition into it and then introduce those stricter rules? We've signed up three young lads already but with our small squad and budget I imagined we would be heavily reliant on giving chances to local amateur players. It is typical that they haven't ironed this out until the last minute.

Edited by LR23
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17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

So if they DR with Doncaster, it seems they will be taking players from Doncaster to make up their reserve side.Not much benefit to Doncaster in that.Maybe I'm missing something.

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Not sure what Saints are doing with dual reg this year but we've given out some contracts for the reserves.

Looks like a mix of academy products not quite ready for the first team, some ex-academy products who dropped into the lower leagues, and Paul Crook from Oldham as player coach.

With 31 in the first team squad there's potentially 14 available there each week too so I don't think we'll be short on numbers barring a serious injury crisis.

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2019/11/29/introducing-your-saints-reserve-team-for-2020/

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Newcastle Thunder have got 6 of their reserve games forming double headers with the first team, and at the start of March even have a tripple header scheduled with the Academy and Reserves both playing Hull KR before the first team play Workington.

The best piece of planning though is that the night before magic weekend, as well as the Thunder playing Doncaster, the reserves will also be playing against Leeds. With the Rhinos playing on the Saturday that should hopefull help to add to a bumper night at Kingston Park on the Friday.

https://www.thunderrugby.co.uk/on-field/reserve-grade-opens-away-to-wolves/

 

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

The latter points around amateurs and uni players would explain why Fev, Keighley and latterly Halifax were excluded/withdrew. I understand there are also issues around contracting on a "pay as you play" basis. 


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31 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

The latter points around amateurs and uni players would explain why Fev, Keighley and latterly Halifax were excluded/withdrew. I understand there are also issues around contracting on a "pay as you play" basis. 

Did the club come out with any official reason as to why not? 

If Featherstone knew this would be an issue months ago - then why is only be discussed now? Seems a bit funny.


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4 hours ago, gittinsfan said:

So if they DR with Doncaster, it seems they will be taking players from Doncaster to make up their reserve side.Not much benefit to Doncaster in that.Maybe I'm missing something.

When did this happen. Our dual reg with Hull has ended and good riddance. Club Doncaster are now Richard Horne's sole employer.

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1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

Did the club come out with any official reason as to why not? 

If Featherstone knew this would be an issue months ago - then why is only be discussed now? Seems a bit funny.

As I'm sure you're aware, Fev have never made an official statement as to why they did not continue. Why this is, I do not know, however I'd suggest it is fairy routine in terms of how and when the club currently chooses to communicate. Keighley and Halifax both did make statements at the time.

As to why it is only being discussed now, who knows. I'd suggest it's likely because it's only being realised by clubs as they start to recruit and also because it is unlikely to have been clearly communicated by the RFL. That's only my opinion however, not fact.


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5 minutes ago, Rob Nash said:

When did this happen. Our dual reg with Hull has ended and good riddance. Club Doncaster are now Richard Horne's sole employer.

I said " if ".

 

6 minutes ago, Rob Nash said:

When did this happen. Our dual reg with Hull has ended and good riddance. Club Doncaster are now Richard Horne's sole employer.

 

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3 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

It’s going to be a proper **** show and I can’t wait for people to turn on it within a month or so. 

I see you have managed to get a hard start and turn on it before it has started.

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I recall going to a Salford v Swinton reserve match back in the 80s, when season ticket holders were admitted free, and there were still fewer than 50 at The Willows.

Edited by Bleep1673

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2 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

I recall going to a Salford v Swinton reserve match back in the 80s, when season ticket holders were admitted free, and there were still fewer than 50 at The Willows.

I remember Swinton playing Leeds reserves in a cup final in the 80's at Headingley and Swinton won!

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3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

I recall going to a Salford v Swinton reserve match back in the 80s, when season ticket holders were admitted free, and there were still fewer than 50 at The Willows.

Ahhh the golden era.  A period adored and harked back to by many on TotalRL.  "The Good Old days".


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10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-fc-dual-reg-reserves-3608720

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list.

Interestingly the Hull Daily Mail article (and another one directly quoting Lee Radford) seems to think that certain regs around Reserves are going to make it difficult for some clubs. Limited to 2 amateurs and 2 University players apparently. 

Not sure what my thoughts are on this tbh.

The regulations need to be signed off by the  RFL Full Council but have been agreed I believe  for quite some time now with the various stakeholders.

The reserve competition is  to be compulsory for the English based SL clubs , who in turn need to be running approved U 18 Academies. They  have up to 75 players  that can be contracted . If any SL clubs  can't do that to turn out 3 sides they need to perhaps consider their positions......

2 amateurs and 2 students can be added . Terms and conditions players are to be abolished. Dual registration will continue but clearly SL clubs are likely to look more carefully at those arrangements as they seek to compete in the Reserve Competition. That competition should be stronger than most Championship matches and certainly much stronger than League 1 ones.

To bring in some balance Championship clubs can have up to 5 amateurs  and League 1 clubs up to 10 . The position will be monitored as the RFL have no intention of letting these proposals dominate squad selections to the extent that some clubs remain / become  ' Pro '  in name only. TV contract and  ongoing central  financial support ( or not ) have been factored in to the thinking....

Amateur players will remain on their community club registers and match payments will be prohibited .  Players will be able to choose if necessary on a weekly basis which club they  make themselves available to play for - it's their game after all !

That's roughly how I believe it's all supposed to pan out though of course I could be well off the mark............

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On 06/12/2019 at 20:04, Dunbar said:

I see you have managed to get a hard start and turn on it before it has started.

Reserves have for years been built up as some panacea to developing players, everyone forgot the reasons we scrapped it in the first place and starting remembering through sepia tones things it didnt do. 

Now it's going to come back, people will start remembering the reasons it was scrapped in the first place, it wont do the things people remembered it doing because it never did them in the first place. 

Rather than admit it doesnt work it will be dismissed as poor planning and organisation by the RFL and no investment from the clubs. 

The reality is, it's a bad idea, we will remember it's a bad idea and it will be scrapped within 5 years. 

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Reserves have for years been built up as some panacea to developing players, everyone forgot the reasons we scrapped it in the first place and starting remembering through sepia tones things it didnt do. 

Now it's going to come back, people will start remembering the reasons it was scrapped in the first place, it wont do the things people remembered it doing because it never did them in the first place. 

Rather than admit it doesnt work it will be dismissed as poor planning and organisation by the RFL and no investment from the clubs. 

The reality is, it's a bad idea, we will remember it's a bad idea and it will be scrapped within 5 years. 

Reserves were never a bad idea and it was a poor decision to scrap it.

Clubs were short sighted and scrapping it was a quick win to saving a few quid. Hetherington then persuaded his idiot friends in the RFL that DR was the answer to all their problems and both he and the RFL hierarchy 'sold' it to the rest of the clubs. If you want to talk about disaster then DR is what you are looking for !

Reserves provides a good pathway for players to remain with their parent clubs beyond the age limits of the junior ranks and there's no reason why a properly run and fully participated in reserves competition can't grow to be a very strong competition. It will have teams essentially made up of SL players who miss out on the 1st team 17 plus players not quite ready for regular 1st team action. Given most of these players will all be full time its likely to be a higher standard than the Championship before long.

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I am in agreement with Saint Toppy.  We have not seen an open age reserve team structure since 1997 and in that time the professionalism and output of the Academy programmes have increased dramatically. 

Teams like Saints, Wigan and Leeds et al are producing squads of 20/25 talented youngsters every year or two... the Saints kids going to Australia and defeating their NRL junior opponents proving their talent.

At the moment these junior players have a pathway of Super League for their clubs (one or two a year) or DR if they want to stay with their parent club or a move away to find a club.

Now, many more of these players can stay with their parent club into their early 20's.  The reserve league plus the production line of the academies has the potential to significantly improve the player pool in our game.

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Huddersfield, Halifax and Hunslet pooling resources for the reserves next year. It sounds quite well thought out and looks like a sensible decision that will see players from all three clubs getting game time. 

 

'Sensible'  - Really?

I think it sounds pretty embarassing.

A professional club having to join up with 2 separate teams of local part timers in order to provide a  second team? 

Absolutely bizarre.

Edited by Celt

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Just now, Celt said:

'Sensible'  - Really?

I think it sounds pretty embarassing.

2 profeesional clubs having to join up for a second team.  (And inexplicably add in a local part time team).  Absolutely bizarre.

Are Halifax full-time? The narrative aroun their cup run this year was that this was a team made up of part-time players that were working on the Friday and then playing Saints on the Saturday. 

Halifax can continue to run their reserve side and to continue to have players on their books whilst getting them games at a decent enough standard, be it at Reserve level alongside and against largely full-time opposition or at Hunslet in League One. 

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Just now, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Are Halifax full-time? The narrative aroun their cup run this year was that this was a team made up of part-time players that were working on the Friday and then playing Saints on the Saturday. 

Halifax can continue to run their reserve side and to continue to have players on their books whilst getting them games at a decent enough standard, be it at Reserve level alongside and against largely full-time opposition or at Hunslet in League One. 

apologies - i was typing the edit as you posted this.  I had somehow read 'Hull KR' instead of Halifax.  


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48 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Reserves were never a bad idea and it was a poor decision to scrap it.

Clubs were short sighted and scrapping it was a quick win to saving a few quid. Hetherington then persuaded his idiot friends in the RFL that DR was the answer to all their problems and both he and the RFL hierarchy 'sold' it to the rest of the clubs. If you want to talk about disaster then DR is what you are looking for !

Reserves provides a good pathway for players to remain with their parent clubs beyond the age limits of the junior ranks and there's no reason why a properly run and fully participated in reserves competition can't grow to be a very strong competition. It will have teams essentially made up of SL players who miss out on the 1st team 17 plus players not quite ready for regular 1st team action. Given most of these players will all be full time its likely to be a higher standard than the Championship before long.

There is a reason that the reserves wont grow to be a very strong competition. Money. 

20,21,22,23 year olds wont earn enough to stay on as reserve team players.

They would earn more as championship players, they would earn more working in a call centre. 

That's why we are talking about drafting in university players and amateurs on an ad hoc basis to pad out squads. 

It's incredible that a game where the lower leagues cant put out full matchday squad is now setting up a reserves tier. 

What's an Alex Sutcliffe going to learn playing in a sub NCL level competition? Going from the championship to the reserves is a huge step down and for some reason we are pretending it will develop them better.

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