EURO 2020 ('21) THREAD

[Maximus Decimus]

48 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

There was a huge overreaction to the England-Scotland game and there has been an overreaction to this too (although I think that is in part due to an outpouring of pent up emotion).

Personally I think some need to eat a bit of humble pie and credit Southgate where it’s due.

We are in a fantastic position and have a great opportunity if we remain focused.

 

I agree about the last part. This is a better position than the World Cup.

I don't think we're ready for humble pie talk yet. England still haven't played well, and a defeat to Ukraine playing the same way would put the previous games in a very different light. 

I have a younger brother who has basically stopped watching football but watched this one. He said he laughed during the first half because it was just the same England as it's always been: passing it around the back but lose it the second we try to move it forward. 

This is where I think we disagree. I'm not sure this is some grand master plan by Southgate, as it looks remarkably like many aimless England teams of the past 20 years. If he gets us to a final or even victory, I'll certainly reassess but I still think the jury is very much out. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

57 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I agree about the last part. This is a better position than the World Cup.

I don't think we're ready for humble pie talk yet. England still haven't played well, and a defeat to Ukraine playing the same way would put the previous games in a very different light. 

I have a younger brother who has basically stopped watching football but watched this one. He said he laughed during the first half because it was just the same England as it's always been: passing it around the back but lose it the second we try to move it forward. 

This is where I think we disagree. I'm not sure this is some grand master plan by Southgate, as it looks remarkably like many aimless England teams of the past 20 years. If he gets us to a final or even victory, I'll certainly reassess but I still think the jury is very much out. 

I probably didn’t make myself too clear previously but I think people got overly negative after the Scotland game and have been overly positive after this win over Germany (understandably and I mean the general national picture not necessarily folk on here) - the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I do think think we’re playing to a set routine that is both logical and coherent to the team’s strengths and weaknesses: a double pivot in midfield of holding players (Phillips and Rice) to screen the defence with a flexibility to go to three central defenders.

Despite this, I think there are warning signs from the last game against Germany that Maguire, while brilliant in the air and able to soak up sustained aerial bombardment, can be done for pace.  Phillips and Rice both picked up bookings which need to be managed.  

I thought Southgate effectively neutralised most of Germany’s threats with his tactics without dominating the possession in midfield or committing too many players into the attack.  I think that was always his plan and for that I credit him.

 

[gingerjon]

6 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I probably didn’t make myself too clear previously but I think people got overly negative after the Scotland game and have been overly positive after this win over Germany (understandably and I mean the general national picture not necessarily folk on here) - the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I do think think we’re playing to a set routine that is both logical and coherent to the team’s strengths and weaknesses: a double pivot in midfield of holding players (Phillips and Rice) to screen the defence with a flexibility to go to three central defenders.

Despite this, I think there are warning signs from the last game against Germany that Maguire, while brilliant in the air and able to soak up sustained aerial bombardment, can be done for pace.  Phillips and Rice both picked up bookings which need to be managed.  

I thought Southgate effectively neutralised most of Germany’s threats with his tactics without dominating the possession in midfield or committing too many players into the attack.  I think that was always his plan and for that I credit him.

 

Agree with this. 

Just to add: It was notable that Germany's best chance after the opening flurry came via a very poor England mistake. It highlighted to me how few actual errors England made and also how little Germany were able to create.

Obviously a lot of people are getting carried away but I'd say, right now, an equal number expect us to go out in embarrassing fashion to Ukraine. Right now there's not really enough evidence for either belief.

[Dave T]

I must say, I like Southgate and many players in this team, and I very much enjoyed the last 20 minutes the other night, but in reality it has been 20 entertaining minutes out of 360 minutes. 

I feel like there are similarities to my experiences as a Wire fan, far too often I am bored, doing something which is meant to be entertaining. 

For about an hour the other night I complained that it was boring and it is shocking how many times the outcome of attacking play or an attacking free kick ends up with us passing back to Pickford. 

Thankfully we have been good enough to get s breakthrough goal, but jeez is it uninspiring. 

But, in tournament football, results are all that matter I suppose. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I must say, I like Southgate and many players in this team, and I very much enjoyed the last 20 minutes the other night, but in reality it has been 20 entertaining minutes out of 360 minutes. 

I feel like there are similarities to my experiences as a Wire fan, far too often I am bored, doing something which is meant to be entertaining. 

For about an hour the other night I complained that it was boring and it is shocking how many times the outcome of attacking play or an attacking free kick ends up with us passing back to Pickford. 

Thankfully we have been good enough to get s breakthrough goal, but jeez is it uninspiring. 

But, in tournament football, results are all that matter I suppose. 

It is worth going back to contemporary views of the 1966 team.

They were not favourable when it came to entertainment.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It is worth going back to contemporary views of the 1966 team.

They were not favourable when it came to entertainment.

Oh aye, I've never been massively entertained by football and particularly England. It's why I will always try and make an event out of the big games, have a few people round, a few drinks and food, because if I was sat in on my own watching it I'd end up switching off. 

I enjoy the event rather than the sport. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Oh aye, I've never been massively entertained by football and particularly England. It's why I will always try and make an event out of the big games, have a few people round, a few drinks and food, because if I was sat in on my own watching it I'd end up switching off. 

I enjoy the event rather than the sport. 

Aye, it was just as well that Tiny Ginger was wanting to watch and then stayed around or else I'm sure I'd have found some cricket to stream and then switched back when/if things started to happen.

[Bleep1673]

Qualifying Group Positions:

Ukraine, 1st

England 1st

Czech 2nd

Spain 1st

Italy 1st

Switzerland 1st

Belgium 1st

Denmark 2nd

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/european-championship-qualifying/table

[Maximus Decimus]

20 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I probably didn’t make myself too clear previously but I think people got overly negative after the Scotland game and have been overly positive after this win over Germany (understandably and I mean the general national picture not necessarily folk on here) - the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I do think think we’re playing to a set routine that is both logical and coherent to the team’s strengths and weaknesses: a double pivot in midfield of holding players (Phillips and Rice) to screen the defence with a flexibility to go to three central defenders.

Despite this, I think there are warning signs from the last game against Germany that Maguire, while brilliant in the air and able to soak up sustained aerial bombardment, can be done for pace.  Phillips and Rice both picked up bookings which need to be managed.  

I thought Southgate effectively neutralised most of Germany’s threats with his tactics without dominating the possession in midfield or committing too many players into the attack.  I think that was always his plan and for that I credit him.

 

To be fair to this team, whilst it hasn't been attractive attacking football, at least that was the plan. We played 7 defensive players for a reason. There were plenty of attack minded players on the bench. 

Many of the times in the past we've looked dreadful, the team wasn't a defensive one they just played badly. 

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

Just out of curiosity, I watched the highlights of England’s 5-1 win over Germany in 2001. I had a newborn when that game was played and had been working so IIRC, fell asleep and missed most of it. 

But looking at it again, England were really good especially after going 1-0 down. Great goals from Gerrard and Owen, and overall they looked fantastic.
 

Not sure how they managed to underachieve in the end as they were a very good side. 

I saw it at the time. My girlfriend thought it must be a boring game as it was one sided. I tried to tell her people would be talking about the game for years to come.

it was a good game and England played brilliantly. That said, we went one down, then equalised with what looked offside. Then Germany missed a sitter. Had we gone in at half time down, instead of ahead, it might have been a different game. In rugby league, the better side wins. Soccer is very different.

That reflects our higher moral fibre. Obviously.

[DavidM]

That was an average period for Germany … and they still got to the WC Final the next year 

[HawkMan]

46 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

 In rugby league, the better side wins. Soccer is very different.

That reflects our higher moral fibre. Obviously.

And our lower profile.  Sorry but I really think that's true. RL is a fantastic FANTASTIC spectacle if played between evenly matched teams,  not so otherwise IMO. Talk about more international RL, expanded SL, quicker game, NO , get more jeopady into RL it has a chance. Back on topic, either Czech,  Ukraine,  Denmark or England will be in the final, that's AMAZING,  unexpected,  that's soccer.

[Bob8]

1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

Not exactly an ‘average’ period then. 

It was a bit like us getting to the semi last time. They were not great. Sometimes, you just get lucky.

[DavidM]

4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Not exactly an ‘average’ period then. 

In terms of the quality of their side relative to others . Ballack was a very dominant figure in that World Cup . The point was they still find a way 

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, DavidM said:

In terms of the quality of their side relative to others . Ballack was a very dominant figure in that World Cup . The point was they still find a way 

Bob's right it was very similar to our 2018 run but even luckier. They faced Paraguay, USA and South Korea to make the final.

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Just out of curiosity, I watched the highlights of England’s 5-1 win over Germany in 2001. I had a newborn when that game was played and had been working so IIRC, fell asleep and missed most of it. 

But looking at it again, England were really good especially after going 1-0 down. Great goals from Gerrard and Owen, and overall they looked fantastic.
 

Not sure how they managed to underachieve in the end as they were a very good side. 

Partly because, and this is my memory rather than anything else, that result really came out of nowhere and wasn't backed up either side of it.

Wasn't that the campaign where we needed a last minute goal against Greece to even qualify in the end?

[JonM]

41 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Partly because, and this is my memory rather than anything else, that result really came out of nowhere and wasn't backed up either side of it.

Wasn't that the campaign where we needed a last minute goal against Greece to even qualify in the end?

Kinda. We started the day on the same points as Germany who played Finland at the same time. They drew, we needed a last minute goal to get the draw against Greece, Beckham scored late in injury time. We won the group, Germany finished second but then got through by beating another second place team in a play-off.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, JonM said:

Kinda. We started the day on the same points as Germany who played Finland at the same time. They drew, we needed a last minute goal to get the draw against Greece, Beckham scored late in injury time. We won the group, Germany finished second but then got through by beating another second place team in a play-off.

Thanks. I could have gone to check but I figured as this was the Internet that my truth was as valid as what actually happened.

[Dave T]

12 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

To be fair to this team, whilst it hasn't been attractive attacking football, at least that was the plan. We played 7 defensive players for a reason. There were plenty of attack minded players on the bench. 

Many of the times in the past we've looked dreadful, the team wasn't a defensive one they just played badly. 

I think this is right, it feels like we are playing well based on the plan. The plan may be boring, but if it delivers results like the other night, people will be more forgiving of that. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think this is right, it feels like we are playing well based on the plan. The plan may be boring, but if it delivers results like the other night, people will be more forgiving of that. 

Quite right, I really couldn't care just how boring the football is we're playing if it gets us far in the tournament. 

[Bleep1673]

15 hours ago, DavidM said:

That was an average period for Germany … and they still got to the WC Final the next year 

I don't think they will make this year's World Cup Final though, the important one.

[DavidM]

41 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

I don't think they will make this year's World Cup Final though, the important one.

Yes it looks a rebuilding job for the new manager 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Quite right, I really couldn't care just how boring the football is we're playing if it gets us far in the tournament. 

I'm slightly split, I've been critical of my club, Wire for their negativity under Price but the Cup win over Saints was brilliant and will be a lifelong memory. 

I can live with the international football being like this a bit more as we are talking a short tournament rather than 30 weeks of the year. Similar to the England RL team, I will be OK with more boring RL if it got us a World Cup win. International sport is more about the event for me, and even slightly more boring sport can be very enjoyable. 

[jacksy]

Its results that matter. 

[graveyard johnny]

i can only imagine how intoxicated people will be at the pub by the time it kicks off at 8pm never mind by the end of the game