Is it Possible ?

[The Rocket]

Is it just possible that that the NRL/ARLC and the clubs just see the RLWC as one great hassle they could do without. The obligation they have of hosting it every four years; selling it to unenthusiastic Australian public; the disruption to the NRL schedule; not seeing any worthwhile competitors north of the equator to be able to market.

The mere fact that 5 months out from the events kick-off we haven`t even heard any news of a broadcast partnership being struck down here speaks volumes about the enthusiasm broadcasters must feel about the general publics attitude towards this event.

Is the NRL just paying lip-service to the rise of the Pacific nations and their vision for the game revolves totally on expanding the NRL club competition ?

[yipyee]

12 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Is it just possible that that the NRL/ARLC and the clubs just see the RLWC as one great hassle they could do without. The obligation they have of hosting it every four years; selling it to unenthusiastic Australian public; the disruption to the NRL schedule; not seeing any worthwhile competitors north of the equator to be able to market.

The mere fact that 5 months out from the events kick-off we haven`t even heard any news of a broadcast partnership being struck down here speaks volumes about the enthusiasm broadcasters must feel about the general publics attitude towards this event.

Is the NRL just paying lip-service to the rise of the Pacific nations and their vision for the game revolves totally on expanding the NRL club competition ?

Interesting perspective, I think its more of a case of noisy neighbours and they fear loosing the crown which they very nearly did last world cup.

The administrators must see average players going to play in the NRL and being stars and be panicky..

I am not saying England are better and cause a 500 page thread just that refusing to play and making up excuses is the easier option.

Also at the moment the UK follow all rule changes by Aus however with a successfull international scene then the power shifts to the IRLF or whatever they are called..

[Man of Kent]

23 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Is the NRL just paying lip-service to the rise of the Pacific nations and their vision for the game revolves totally on expanding the NRL club competition ?

I think there's a few elements here. The NRL wants the game to grow as long as they control that growth.

I also suspect they fear the State of Origin milch cow drying up if it is no longer seen Down Under as the pinnacle (which it isn't and never was IMO).

I also think there's a bit of classic Aussie insularity stroke arrogance from living in the RL top nation, an island thousands of miles from another large nation.  

[The Rocket]

3 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Interesting perspective, I think its more of a case of noisy neighbours and they fear loosing the crown which they very nearly did last world cup.

The administrators must see average players going to play in the NRL and being stars and be panicky..

I am not saying England are better and cause a 500 page thread just that refusing to play and making up excuses is the easier option.

Also at the moment the UK follow all rule changes by Aus however with a successfull international scene then the power shifts to the IRLF or whatever they are called..

Thanks for not assuming that I`m having a dig at the state of NH Rugby League.

 I`ve no doubt if our WC reached a stage, even like Unions where it was rotated around several nations before it came back here, the NRL may be more receptive.

Is Rugby League at a stage of international development where it is better sticking to regional tournaments, 3 or 4 nations tournaments and the like. In every likelihood you will have two French teams in SL next year and we mightn`t be far off having two NZ sides, would it be better if we revisited the WC concept when perhaps both these nations are capable of hosting an event independently, it might be a much easier sell down here if it wasn`t held here so regularly.

[The Rocket]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I think there's a few elements here. The NRL wants the game to grow as long as they control that growth.

I also suspect they fear the State of Origin milch cow drying up if it is no longer seen Down Under as the pinnacle (which it isn't and never was IMO).

I also think there's a bit of classic Aussie insularity stroke arrogance from living in the RL top nation, an island thousands of miles from another large nation.  

The reality is the strength of the game currently lies in the strength of the NRL club competition, by far and away the largest amount of money that comes into our sport comes in through the NRL. Continuing to build on that strength may be their priority.

 I`m not being arrogant here, I`m just trying to lay the facts out to try and see where their decision making is coming from. Because I don`t know how else to explain their lack of enthusiasm for the WC.

In my previous response to YipYee I laid out an angle they may be coming from. In response to your post I`m approaching it from another angle that might explain their thinking. Is it possible that the number one priority of the NRL now is to grow the competition to an unassailable position in Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea and the Pacific Islands. For the meantime International League is going to take second fiddle. A cynic might even say that the whole concept of tier two nations and the Pacific Cup is just a ploy to further the advance of the NRL into that part of the world and bring those nations into the NRL feeder system if so, it hasn`t been a bad one.

 

 

 

 

[Davo5]

59 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Is it just possible that that the NRL/ARLC and the clubs just see the RLWC as one great hassle they could do without. The obligation they have of hosting it every four years; selling it to unenthusiastic Australian public; the disruption to the NRL schedule; not seeing any worthwhile competitors north of the equator to be able to market.

The mere fact that 5 months out from the events kick-off we haven`t even heard any news of a broadcast partnership being struck down here speaks volumes about the enthusiasm broadcasters must feel about the general publics attitude towards this event.

Is the NRL just paying lip-service to the rise of the Pacific nations and their vision for the game revolves totally on expanding the NRL club competition ?

Yes & Yes

I was in Australia for the last World Cup and although securing plenty of sponsorship was achieved it all seemed a bit half arsed,with the highlights being the games in NZ & PNG.

[Man of Kent]

7 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 I`m not being arrogant here, I`m just trying to lay the facts out to try and see where their decision making is coming from. Because I don`t know how else to explain their lack of enthusiasm for the WC.

Perhaps it's due to a misapprehension that State of Origin is the pinnacle of rugby league - a claim made by Australian players and pundits ad nauseam as if it's gospel truth? 

I'm not being funny but Australia can come across as a somewhat insular nation - look at the Covid response. Big on local lockdowns, small on foreign vaccines. Shades of the rabbit-proof fence!

 

[Clogiron]

If people want the W C to be taken seriously in the Southern Hemisphere it has to be competitive and profitable for them. The final last time around was close but it was also dour and whilst they were in a transitional stage team wise. It falls for them when people are into other things hence the lack of interest from TV. Until the rest of the League universe can produce a massive sea change in our game to really challenge them on the field (which I doubt) it will continue to play second fiddle.

[Farmduck]

13 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Perhaps it's due to a misapprehension that State of Origin is the pinnacle of rugby league - a claim made by Australian players and pundits ad nauseam as if it's gospel truth? 

I'm not being funny but Australia can come across as a somewhat insular nation - look at the Covid response. Big on local lockdowns, small on foreign vaccines. Shades of the rabbit-proof fence!

 

I don't care about the Origin-bashing. It's de rigeur on this forum. But Covid!!! You seriously want to compare the Covid responses in AUS and UK?

Total Covid deaths:

UK: 128K

AUS: 910

Current Covid Serious/Acute cases:

UK: 297

AUS: 1

Covid deaths in 2021:

UK: 53,903

AUS: 1

Covid deaths/1 million people

UK: 1,878

AUS: 35

 

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

I don't care about the Origin-bashing. It's de rigeur on this forum. But Covid!!! You seriously want to compare the Covid responses in AUS and UK?

Total Covid deaths:

UK: 128K

AUS: 910

Current Covid Serious/Acute cases:

UK: 297

AUS: 1

Covid deaths in 2021:

UK: 53,903

AUS: 1

Covid deaths/1 million people

UK: 1,878

AUS: 35

 

Being on a sparsely populated rock thousands of miles from anywhere does have it advantages sometimes

[Mr Frisky]

1 minute ago, Farmduck said:

I don't care about the Origin-bashing. It's de rigeur on this forum. But Covid!!! You seriously want to compare the Covid responses in AUS and UK?

Total Covid deaths:

UK: 128K

AUS: 910

Current Covid Serious/Acute cases:

UK: 297

AUS: 1

Covid deaths in 2021:

UK: 53,903

AUS: 1

Covid deaths/1 million people

UK: 1,878

AUS: 35

 

To be fair the UK is one of the 3 most visited countries in the world and London is one of the top 3 world cities in the world and a major transport hub - so the amount of peoplewho pass through the UK and the UKs location us the main factor to how Covid has affected us. Australia has 2 smallish cities and is a sparsely populated country out of the way and way off all major travel routes. Its easier to lock down Australia than it is to lockdown Watford.

Think that contributes to their outlook and brings it back full circle to how they are very insular when it comes to RL and specifically the RL world Cup.

[Dunbar]

50 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

I don't care about the Origin-bashing. It's de rigeur on this forum. But Covid!!! You seriously want to compare the Covid responses in AUS and UK?

Total Covid deaths:

UK: 128K

AUS: 910

Current Covid Serious/Acute cases:

UK: 297

AUS: 1

Covid deaths in 2021:

UK: 53,903

AUS: 1

Covid deaths/1 million people

UK: 1,878

AUS: 35

 

Without turning this into the political thread. I think Australia have done a remarkable and commendable job on restricting the spread of Covid and its impact.  But less so in looking further to the future and how to emerge without continuous lockdowns and strict quarantine.  This is where the vaccine comes in and Australia should have used the time it bought to get on the front foot on the vaccination programme. 

The UK. The mirror opposite. Not great at the initial control but we have done very well with the vaccine rollout and we are seeing the benefits.

[Damien]

I agree with what the OP says and it is what has been said on various threads over recent years. It is also becoming increasingly clear with every action.

I said previously that the only reason Australia are pushing for France in 2025 is because they can't be bothered hosting it. They couldn't care less about developing the game there and all the other rubbish they came out with.

The NRL only care about the Pacific nations so they can control and limit the international game. They don't want it to grow and compete with SOO and the NRL. They now don't even want mid season internationals. They just want to give the PI players enough crumbs to keep them happy. Give a semblance of doing something but yet restrict everything about it. Oh and it's a nice little extra product to sell with the Pacific tests

The NRL running the game is akin to the Premier League running Football in this country and dictating the international schedule. The trouble is Football is that big it couldn't happen and the world would go on regardless without them. RL is not big enough for that and it holds the entire game back.  Australia as the leading nation should be doing all it can to grow and develop the game. It has an obligation to do that. Australia need a proper governing body, like the old ARL, with the games best interest at heart, not just the NRL.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Perhaps it's due to a misapprehension that State of Origin is the pinnacle of rugby league - a claim made by Australian players and pundits ad nauseam as if it's gospel truth? 

I'm not being funny but Australia can come across as a somewhat insular nation - look at the Covid response. Big on local lockdowns, small on foreign vaccines. Shades of the rabbit-proof fence!

 

Yes.

It is a fact that Australia is moving 7cm north every year.  It used to be part of Antartica but in due course it will leave the south island of NZ behind and will run into Indonesia & Malaysia. It has already moved 1.8m since 1994, so this is serious!   

Can the NRL stop continental drift.  

[The Rocket]

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

Also at the moment the UK follow all rule changes by Aus however with a successfull international scene then the power shifts to the IRLF or whatever they are called..

 

8 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

 

I also think there's a bit of classic Aussie insularity stroke arrogance from living in the RL top nation, an island thousands of miles from another large nation.  

 

7 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Yes & Yes

I was in Australia for the last World Cup and although securing plenty of sponsorship was achieved it all seemed a bit half arsed,with the highlights being the games in NZ & PNG.

 

6 hours ago, Clogiron said:

If people want the W C to be taken seriously in the Southern Hemisphere it has to be competitive and profitable for them. The final last time around was close but it was also dour and whilst they were in a transitional stage team wise. It falls for them when people are into other things hence the lack of interest from TV. Until the rest of the League universe can produce a massive sea change in our game to really challenge them on the field (which I doubt) it will continue to play second fiddle.

 

4 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yep, if you could get one other nation in Europe to a marginal decent standard as France or England and lock a team in SL for that nations players I wouldn´t give a ###### if we only so Australia at World Cups. 

Look you all had the decency of responding to my OP therefore I am going to respond to each of you.

Do you think it possible that maybe the NRL see the best way forward for international Rugby League now would be outbound tours from the Southern Hemisphere, with maybe one of the big 6, I`m including PNG, touring your part of the world on a rotating basis. 

That would relieve them of the obligation of hosting the WC every four years, and would still keep the international game ticking over until we reached a point where WC`s are more likely to be feasible down here.

Given the success in raising sponsors you`ve had for the WC, shows there is an appetite for international League up there, would not an in-bound tour each year from a Pacific Nation, Oz or even the Kiwis serve the same purpose but every year.

Before you say yes why can`t we have that and a WC as well, the facts of the matter are the WC is a hard sell down here, especially after a long season and people have had their Rugby League fill. We saw it with Origin last year, people switch off once the GF is over.

[Alan Robertson]

7 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Without turning this into the political thread. I think Australia have done a remarkable and commendable job on restricting the spread of Covid and its impact.  But less so in looking further to the future and how to emerge without continuous lockdowns and strict quarantine.  This is where the vaccine comes in and Australia should have used the time it bought to get on the front foot on the vaccination programme. 

The UK. The mirror opposite. Not great at the initial control but we have done very well with the vaccine rollout and we are seeing the benefits.

That summarises the situation perfectly, regarding each country.

[goldcoaster]

I don't think Australians are unenthusiastic about it, crowds in the last two events hosted here show that the international game is on the rise here. the main issue stems from a general apathy towards the national team itself, the Kangaroos. It's hard for the population to get excited about a team who always win - especially when our national psyche is a nation of underdogs. People like me who enjoy the international game find ourselves cheering for whoever is playing AGANST Australia - but many others lose interest. To be honest, its the multiculturalism of Australia, particularly our Pacific Island population that help the international game grow.

I do think though that this years world cup should be postponed for 12 months. I fully understand players, officials and fans alike not wanting the event to go ahead with Australia's border situation being as tight as it is.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, goldcoaster said:

I don't think Australians are unenthusiastic about it, crowds in the last two events hosted here show that the international game is on the rise here. the main issue stems from a general apathy towards the national team itself, the Kangaroos. It's hard for the population to get excited about a team who always win - especially when our national psyche is a nation of underdogs. People like me who enjoy the international game find ourselves cheering for whoever is playing AGANST Australia - but many others lose interest. To be honest, its the multiculturalism of Australia, particularly our Pacific Island population that help the international game grow.

I do think though that this years world cup should be postponed for 12 months. I fully understand players, officials and fans alike not wanting the event to go ahead with Australia's border situation being as tight as it is.

Where was that apathy and lack of excitement when Queensland had a decade of Origin dominance?

Your obviously excluding Sydney from your crowds & enthusiasm statement.

[unapologetic pedant]

Cannot ignore the titanic symmetrical NRL/AFL code war. This was not as much a factor in the past.

Aussie Rules manages to be hugely popular and profitable on a purely domestic basis. Consequently, as its direct rival, the NRL are likely to conclude that a strong international calendar is neither strategically essential nor the best way to counter or emulate some of the AFL`s successes.

And in their asymmetrical skirmish with RU, they can observe a game which does emphasise international competition but is nonetheless going down the pan in Australia.

The other problem is that the more physically demanding RL becomes at club level, the less will its elite players be able and willing to play internationals.

[Eddie]

14 hours ago, Farmduck said:

I don't care about the Origin-bashing. It's de rigeur on this forum. But Covid!!! You seriously want to compare the Covid responses in AUS and UK?

Total Covid deaths:

UK: 128K

AUS: 910

Current Covid Serious/Acute cases:

UK: 297

AUS: 1

Covid deaths in 2021:

UK: 53,903

AUS: 1

Covid deaths/1 million people

UK: 1,878

AUS: 35

 

I don’t doubt ours is higher, but ours is massively inflated by the misleading way it’s reported (ie people not dying of covid being recorded as covid deaths). 

[Rupert Prince]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

 

 

 

Look you all had the decency of responding to my OP therefore I am going to respond to each of you.

Do you think it possible that maybe the NRL see the best way forward for international Rugby League now would be outbound tours from the Southern Hemisphere, with maybe one of the big 6, I`m including PNG, touring your part of the world on a rotating basis. 

That would relieve them of the obligation of hosting the WC every four years, and would still keep the international game ticking over until we reached a point where WC`s are more likely to be feasible down here.

Given the success in raising sponsors you`ve had for the WC, shows there is an appetite for international League up there, would not an in-bound tour each year from a Pacific Nation, Oz or even the Kiwis serve the same purpose but every year.

Before you say yes why can`t we have that and a WC as well, the facts of the matter are the WC is a hard sell down here, especially after a long season and people have had their Rugby League fill. We saw it with Origin last year, people switch off once the GF is over.

'a long season'...??

[yipyee]

17 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

 

 

 

Look you all had the decency of responding to my OP therefore I am going to respond to each of you.

Do you think it possible that maybe the NRL see the best way forward for international Rugby League now would be outbound tours from the Southern Hemisphere, with maybe one of the big 6, I`m including PNG, touring your part of the world on a rotating basis. 

That would relieve them of the obligation of hosting the WC every four years, and would still keep the international game ticking over until we reached a point where WC`s are more likely to be feasible down here.

Given the success in raising sponsors you`ve had for the WC, shows there is an appetite for international League up there, would not an in-bound tour each year from a Pacific Nation, Oz or even the Kiwis serve the same purpose but every year.

Before you say yes why can`t we have that and a WC as well, the facts of the matter are the WC is a hard sell down here, especially after a long season and people have had their Rugby League fill. We saw it with Origin last year, people switch off once the GF is over.

I think the bigger picture is that Australia fear loosing a one off game and being knocked off their perch, it happened when NZ beat them.

They probably prefer tours as its harder to loose a 3 match series (if they presume themselves superior that is)

[Dunbar]

I really don't think there is any fear of losing a game or not winning the competition here from Australia.  I would argue that they are completely ambivalent about whether they win or lose (maybe not the players but certainly the clubs, the administrators and most of the fans).

And that is because of the real underlying issue.

The administrators and clubs see no value in winning the world cup.  They wouldn't expect to get an uptick in fanbase from it as the prestige of winning our World Cup is not as high as the others. And because of that, the value isn't there for the fans as the whole thing is seen as low key compared to NRL finals, Origin etc.

That is the unattractive truth.

I don't particularly blame them.  The international game suffered from a lack of competition and it became all too predictable.  Origin filled the void.

What to do about it? Raise the bar; make the World Cup the biggest stage with the biggest stadia and with the biggest global audience. 

Make the whole thing so big and so noisy and so high profile that winning it every 4 years is the single biggest goal for Australian Rugby League. 

Ironically, the 2021 iteration could start doing exactly that if it were allowed to go ahead.

[AB90]

7 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I really don't think there is any fear of losing a game or not winning the competition here from Australia.  I would argue that they are completely ambivalent about whether they win or lose (maybe not the players but certainly the clubs, the administrators and most of the fans).

And that is because of the real underlying issue.

The administrators and clubs see no value in winning the world cup.  They wouldn't expect to get an uptick in fanbase from it as the prestige of winning our World Cup is not as high as the others. And because of that, the value isn't there for the fans as the whole thing is seen as low key compared to NRL finals, Origin etc.

That is the unattractive truth.

I don't particularly blame them.  The international game suffered from a lack of competition and it became all too predictable.  Origin filled the void.

What to do about it? Raise the bar; make the World Cup the biggest stage with the biggest stadia and with the biggest global audience. 

Make the whole thing so big and so noisy and so high profile that winning it every 4 years is the single biggest goal for Australian Rugby League. 

Ironically, the 2021 iteration could start doing exactly that if it were allowed to go ahead.

Agreed Dunbar. Reality is the appetite for international rugby just isn’t there for the majority of rugby league fans in Australia. A lot of rugby league fans in Australia wouldn’t even know that the sport is played outside of Australia/South Pacific. And barley any would be aware that there is a WC scheduled this year.

And to be honest, even though it may seem strange to brits, there’s nothing wrong with that. My second favourite sport behind rugby league is basketball. And when I say ‘basketball’ I specifically mean the ‘NBA’. I have zero interest in international basketball (like the majority of American basketball fans). I probably haven’t watched an international game in the last 10 years. Not even the US team at the Olympics.

Is that wrong of me or does that make me ‘not a real fan’….. I don’t think so personally.

[The Rocket]

7 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I really don't think there is any fear of losing a game or not winning the competition here from Australia.  I would argue that they are completely ambivalent about whether they win or lose (maybe not the players but certainly the clubs, the administrators and most of the fans).

And that is because of the real underlying issue.

The administrators and clubs see no value in winning the world cup.  They wouldn't expect to get an uptick in fanbase from it as the prestige of winning our World Cup is not as high as the others. And because of that, the value isn't there for the fans as the whole thing is seen as low key compared to NRL finals, Origin etc.

That is the unattractive truth.

I don't particularly blame them.  The international game suffered from a lack of competition and it became all too predictable.  Origin filled the void.

What to do about it? Raise the bar; make the World Cup the biggest stage with the biggest stadia and with the biggest global audience. 

Make the whole thing so big and so noisy and so high profile that winning it every 4 years is the single biggest goal for Australian Rugby League. 

Ironically, the 2021 iteration could start doing exactly that if it were allowed to go ahead.

When I started this thread more than anything I was trying to get inside the ARLC/NRL`s head and try to understand why they haven`t gone into Project Apollo mode, with its` `let`s make it happen` mindset in regard to attending the WC, like we all wanted them to.

It`s easy to get caught up in the doom and gloom mindset that sometimes prevails on these pages, I can even recall some people saying they might find other sports to watch if the WC doesn`t go ahead for what appears to be spurious reasons.

Given time to reflect we must remember there would of been a Kangaroo tour last year and a team would have been sent to the WC this year without question.

There has been suggestions that the NRL instigated push to hold the next WC in France is a reflection of a lack of enthusiasm for holding the event down here, no doubt part true, but only because it is a hard sell so close on the heels of the last one, but also, and I say this without hesitancy, the people running the game down here know until our WC becomes perceived more as a global event, held in other first world nations, it will be continue to be a hard sell when it comes back to OZ. France holding a WC event and final would definitely be a step in the right direction in this regard.

Time zone issues mean that  NH WC will never be a big rater down here, but it will make the news, and a tournament throwing up surprise results will make headlines especially towards the pointy end of the tournament. And that`s what we want and can probably deliver given the rise of our Pacific friends.

One other thing regards administrators and clubs. Union may be on its` knees down here but it is far from dead, the Western Force (W.A.`s super rugby franchise) last week tabled a formal offer to Blake Ferguson, with offers of a potential wallaby spot, there has been murmurings around Angus Chrichton as well. The NRL would well know that while the temptation of playing super rugby may not be that appealing to many League players, the temptation of playing in front of big crowds in foreign countries with practically a walk up start in a wallaby jumper could be very tempting to many. We don`t want to start losing more stars to union, it`s going to be painful enough seeing RTS being lauded in union, without seeing other young stars going over. This is another reason why I think there is a genuine desire to grow the international game, certainly from head office.

Sometimes I suppose for us who are not actually at the coal-face of organising these things it may seem like they are not doing enough or not doing it fast enough, but I think there is a commitment to make it happen, it just ain`t going to happen overnight.