Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[GeordieSaint]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The NRL clubs only have jurisdiction over the Aus/NZ teams. The RLWC needs to stand firm and either go with 14 or invite Serbia and the USA. The Australians and NZ 100% need to feel left out and the likes of Tedesco and Papali'i can jump ship to existing countries.

I actually agree. But I think the misinformation piece is in here... what the likes of Abdo and the clubs are saying to the players.  

[Scubby]

The announcement we need is all players on board from the RLPA. Players have agreed to use the 2-week quarantine as part of their 6 weeks standard NRL leave. All other 14 nations have reaffirmed their commitment to the signed participation agreements.

[DoubleD]

52 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I`m sorry but as an Australian I also think it is wrong, the vast majority of `Daily Telegraph` reading Rugby League supporters, and that is by far and away the League demographic, take very little notice of afl, they have their club and they have SOO.

They used to follow International Rugby League, but apart from the occasional upset, we knew exactly who was going to win. I know people will trot out stats about the Kiwis in the 2000`s and England in Melbourne, but at the end of the day Oz won most of the time, always started winning again and are always red-hot favourites. It`s too predictable.

If Oz got knocked off its` perch for a couple of years and then start to get challenged year in, year out, then people will flock back to international League, like they did pre-1990`s. Until then they will stick to club football and SOO as long as that remains competitive.

But they do get challenged..........NZ and England nearly always give them a good game. And Tonga beat them recently. I just don't get this behaviour, it's so 'rugby league'. The All Blacks are serial winners but that doesn't people turning out in their droves to watch them and appreciate good rugby. 

 

8 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

If this drags out beyond the next few days without a resolution, I imagine we will see the tounament cancelled.

You can't dismiss the impact that being serial winners, often very easily, has on a fan's view of a competition.

I want us the play France more as I think it's the right thing to do but if I'm being completely honest, I have no real burning desire to watch the game in light of all the mind numbingly boring easy victories against them in the recent past.

I don't blame Oz RL fans for being disinterested - yes there is the odd exception but by and large, International RL has been a bit of a walk in the park and has been less interesting than Origin and the NRL.

That's slightly different because the French rarely give us a close game unfortunately. Australian games vs England and NZ have nearly always been a contest

[The Rocket]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Why do Aussies keep ignoring all the times their legends have bottled tournaments in the recent past? 

I mean with the legends the Aussies have, failing in Tri/Four Nations finals and a World Cup Final, and peaking with a loss to Tonga a couple of years back would surely get the fans interested? 

Or maybe that isn't a real reason. 

I`ll tell you right now mate, it`s going to take more than that, it`s going to take probably another 10 years to rebuild the credibility of international League. It`s going to take sustained competitiveness, it`s going to take Oz consistently losing series.

I think the problem here is that we are coming at this from different angles, you`re coming from it from the point of view maybe we will beat them this time, your average mug-punter Australian League fan is here we go again, compounded by the fact that they think how good is this SOO, international League is second rate.

Any way I`m not going to get into an argument with you, that, as an fervid fan of international League is how I  see it and I long for the day when we can have the by and large lottery of results they have in other international codes.

[fighting irish]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I`ll tell you right now mate, it`s going to take more than that, it`s going to take probably another 10 years to rebuild the credibility of international League. It`s going to take sustained competitiveness, it`s going to take Oz consistently losing series.

I think the problem here is that we are coming at this from different angles, you`re coming from it from the point of view maybe we will beat them this time, your average mug-punter Australian League fan is here we go again, compounded by the fact that they think how good is this SOO, international League is second rate.

Any way I`m not going to get into an argument with you, that, as an fervid fan of international League is how I  see it and I long for the day when we can have the by and large lottery of results they have in other international codes.

I accept that the fall from grace of international rugby league in the minds of the Australian fans is real.

It's also real in the minds of English fans regarding games against (uncompetitive) France, Wales etc.

This is a kind of catch 22 for International Rugby League, so here's my take on it.

The IRL should focus (all) its efforts on creating International competition amongst the ''other'' nations, developing the game and establishing regular matches (which can be sold) between roughly equivalent, competitive National teams.

Perhaps, the winners of said competitions could then challenge England in the NH and Australia/NZ in the SH at the end of the comp in a one off, winner takes all match.

The jeopardy of such a challenge match would, I believe create a lot of interest.

Once the winners of the NH and SH International competitions begin to beat England and Australia roughly half the time, then those nations can be incorporated into the International comps.

Where there's a will there's a way mate and I'm not prepared to accept that we should do nothing.  

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I accept that the fall from grace of international rugby league in the minds of the Australian fans is real.

It's also real in the minds of English fans regarding games against (uncompetitive) France, Wales etc.

This is a kind of catch 22 for International Rugby League, so here's my take on it.

The IRL should focus (all) its efforts on creating International competition amongst the ''other'' nations, developing the game and establishing regular matches (which can be sold) between roughly equivalent, competitive National teams.

Perhaps, the winners of said competitions could then challenge England in the NH and Australia/NZ in the SH at the end of the comp in a one off, winner takes all match.

The jeopardy of such a challenge match would, I believe create a lot of interest.

Once the winners of the NH and SH International competitions begin to beat England and Australia roughly half the time, then those nations can be incorporated into the International comps.

Where there's a will there's a way mate and I'm not prepared to accept that we should do nothing.  

Just to add, I think that the world cup could still be organised on a 4 yearly cycle.

Invitations to Australia, New Zealand, England.... in fact all RL playing nations would be issued.

If those invitations are not accepted then so be it. The comp, goes on without them.

The whole idea here, is to develop the rest of the world until we have more Nations capable of defeating the big 3/4.

The IRL World Cup would, in time, become irresistible to the big 3/4 because of the size and quality of the competition.

Let's stop whining and get on with it.

[frank]

36 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

And this is where we end up every time we have this discussion, an absolute nonsense comparison.

I`m not getting dragged down some rabbit-hole of bizarre comparisons, International League was competitive up to about the 70`s, people still kept going in the 80`s and 90`s, because it was living off past glories, when it finally sunk in there was no coming back people stopped being interested.

I know I was one of them. I went to the GB tours in the 80`s for the event, I also went to the one in the early 2000`s, one of the most depressing nights of my life, I left at half time and I knew that competitive International League at that point  was dead, I don`t care what any one says I`ll bet my bottom dollar that is how the majority of League fans felt as well.

How come the the Aussie union team generally  get thrashed by the All Blacks and yet they get a full house when they play in Aussie?

[The Rocket]

9 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I accept that the fall from grace of international rugby league in the minds of the Australian fans is real.

It's also real in the minds of English fans regarding games against (uncompetitive) France, Wales etc.

Thank you Irish, I`m on a hiding to nothing trying to explain why International League has fallen out of favour in this country without sounding arrogant.

[The Rocket]

1 minute ago, frank said:

How come the the Aussie union team generally  get thrashed by the All Blacks and yet they get a full house when they play in Aussie?

More bloody drivel, THEY ###### DON`T and they haven`t for years.

[Jim from Oz]

34 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The announcement we need is all players on board from the RLPA. Players have agreed to use the 2-week quarantine as part of their 6 weeks standard NRL leave. All other 14 nations have reaffirmed their commitment to the signed participation agreements.

This is it in a nutshell … if the players can be convinced all will be okay (which I'm sure they can be), it perhaps then comes down to how much resistance from the NRL clubs will be put on those wanting to play for the Australian and NZ rebel/invitational/whatever teams …

It's a knife edge.

But whatever happens, my absolute disgust in V'landys, Gould, the clubs and the gormless coaches (bar Bennett and perhaps a few others) who caused this will remain deep ! 

[MatthewWoody]

1 hour ago, londonrlfan said:

Exactly why they should be replaced with other countries. They had their chance and disrespected the competition. The players can always switch if they want to play. 

Not all players can switch. I'd go with Aus XIII and NZ XIII (as recently happened with Tonga), with the best player available.

Normally I wouldn't want such teams in a WC, but these (pandemic, ARL and NZRL refusal, etc.) are not normal times. 

Having those invitational sides would good for the level of the games, too. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

27 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

your average mug-punter Australian League fan is here we go again, compounded by the fact that they think how good is this SOO, international League is second rate.

I think this is the real issue, because the narrative from the Australian media is that SoO is number 1, which presupposes that the Aussies must also therefore be number 1 by definition. There wasn't any lack of interest in SoO when Queensland won the series for X years on the trot. But the media tells everyone that SoO is the nuts and internationals are not as good, and people swallow it. If they'd built a narrative around England/New Zealand challenging the Aussies and maybe becoming top dogs, then that would have garnered interest IMO, but they're too keen to protect the status of SoO, as it's a cash cow for them. It's why they will reign in the development of Pacific internationals if it starts to challenge SoO as the biggest show in town.

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

Not all players can switch. I'd go with Aus XIII and NZ XIII (as recently happened with Tonga), with the best player available.

Normally I wouldn't want such teams in a WC, but these (pandemic, ARL and NZRL refusal, etc.) are not normal times. 

Having those invitational sides would good for the level of the games, too. 

It seems that the all star sides want to play but if there's a chance for an invitational XIII for each nation I'd go for that, it's just more credible as an international tournament. Plus you get to call them the Rebel 'Roos etc.

[Hela Wigmen]

7 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I think this is the real issue, because the narrative from the Australian media is that SoO is number 1, which presupposes that the Aussies must also therefore be number 1 by definition. There wasn't any lack of interest in SoO when Queensland won the series for X years on the trot. But the media tells everyone that SoO is the nuts and internationals are not as good, and people swallow it. If they'd built a narrative around England/New Zealand challenging the Aussies and maybe becoming top dogs, then that would have garnered interest IMO, but they're too keen to protect the status of SoO, as it's a cash cow for them. It's why they will reign in the development of Pacific internationals if it starts to challenge SoO as the biggest show in town.

The Australian media are going to do say that though, aren’t they? It’s just like people involved in the media here saying the Premier League is the “Best League in the World” and all of their usual spiel about that league when there’s four other top European leagues. 

Our media are pretty negative and our fans typically go on some arrogant ego trip about how it’s the greatest game, how bad football is etc. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Hela Wigmen

[londonrlfan]

9 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Thank you Irish, I`m on a hiding to nothing trying to explain why International League has fallen out of favour in this country without sounding arrogant.

Yet Queensland won ten in a row and I don't remember any Aussies saying they should get rid of Origin? 

[MatthewWoody]

8 minutes ago, frank said:

How come the the Aussie union team generally  get thrashed by the All Blacks and yet they get a full house when they play in Aussie?

They actually beat them sometimes. 

[Matterhorn]

They say the year ARL & Super League went head to head it will be forever remembered with an asterisk.

Well if this years World Cup winner has an asterisk beside there name then so be it.

I'd also love to have a footnote at the bottom that reads:

"Australia/New Zealand decided not to participate even though 75% of there players wanted to go."

[londonrlfan]

7 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Not all players can switch. I'd go with Aus XIII and NZ XIII (as recently happened with Tonga), with the best player available.

Normally I wouldn't want such teams in a WC, but these (pandemic, ARL and NZRL refusal, etc.) are not normal times. 

Having those invitational sides would good for the level of the games, too. 

If that's the case, just call them Aus/NZ. But if they're not bothering to enter, why would they send an invitational team?

RL needs to grow some balls and stand up to them. Plus it would be great to have a new Champion. 

[GeordieSaint]

Interesting how reporting over the past week has alluded to the Aussies (and NZ?) being fed up of heritage teams. Is this the result of Tonga/Samoa taking some of their players and challenging the status quo? 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Yet Queensland won ten in a row and I don't remember any Aussies saying they should get rid of Origin? 

Them being the underdogs helped somewhat. If that was flipped and NSW had such dominance I think the effect on Origin would have been much greater.

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 minute ago, londonrlfan said:

If that's the case, just call them Aus/NZ. But if they're not bothering to enter, why would they send an invitational team?

RL needs to grow some balls and stand up to them. Plus it would be great to have a new Champion. 

Invitational teams are invitational and not sanctioned by the governing body. They won't be sending anyone it will be the players taking it upon themselves if it happens.

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

They actually beat them sometimes. 

Yet the All Blacks have a higher win percentage than the Kangaroos.

[MatthewWoody]

Just now, londonrlfan said:

If that's the case, just call them Aus/NZ. But if they're not bothering to enter, why would they send an invitational team?

RL needs to grow some balls and stand up to them. Plus it would be great to have a new Champion. 

But it would be good having interesting and actually watchable games. 

I'd go with Aus and NZ XIII (if players do want to partecipate). 

[fighting irish]

6 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Yet Queensland won ten in a row and I don't remember any Aussies saying they should get rid of Origin? 

They've got no option but to keep on playing it.

[londonrlfan]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I`m sorry but as an Australian I also think it is wrong, the vast majority of `Daily Telegraph` reading Rugby League supporters, and that is by far and away the League demographic, take very little notice of afl, they have their club and they have SOO.

They used to follow International Rugby League, but apart from the occasional upset, we knew exactly who was going to win. I know people will trot out stats about the Kiwis in the 2000`s and England in Melbourne, but at the end of the day Oz won most of the time, always started winning again and are always red-hot favourites. It`s too predictable.

If Oz got knocked off its` perch for a couple of years and then start to get challenged year in, year out, then people will flock back to international League, like they did pre-1990`s. Until then they will stick to club football and SOO as long as that remains competitive.

It's not a foregone conclusion. The fear of losing to Tonga is there. If it was a foregone conclusion, you can bet the Aussies would turn up.

Edited July 29, 2021 by londonrlfan