Jump to content

League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)


Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

That's down to clubs being poorly run, nothing to do with a shortage of players. There is plenty of great talent coming through and plenty of players outside SL that could play at that level 

Loads of players available, clubs wish to run a tight ship so don't have large squads.

Maybe the return of the reserves will help this?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Id still agree that there is a shortage of players coming through the ranks at amateur level as participation numbers continue to drop. I only have to look at my own area where last week probably historically the 2nd or 3rd biggest club shut their doors and will not run teams at any level. Maybe this is down to Siddal's dominance in the area but its probably more down to a lack of interest in the game as a whole. The fact that most schools in this area still play Rugby Union rather than League does little to help but in that respect there is a clear proven pathways for them rather than Leagues move the goal posts every two minutes approach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Id still agree that there is a shortage of players coming through the ranks at amateur level as participation numbers continue to drop. I only have to look at my own area where last week probably historically the 2nd or 3rd biggest club shut their doors and will not run teams at any level. Maybe this is down to Siddal's dominance in the area but its probably more down to a lack of interest in the game as a whole. The fact that most schools in this area still play Rugby Union rather than League does little to help but in that respect there is a clear proven pathways for them rather than Leagues move the goal posts every two minutes approach.

This is why there has to be lots of different pathways for players. That could be the university game, going through conference leagues, picked up by league 1 or championship. Not everyone has access to a SL academy. The more clubs we lose both at amateur and semi pro levels the less pathways there will be 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Loads of players available, clubs wish to run a tight ship so don't have large squads.

Maybe the return of the reserves will help this?

Possibly though not all clubs had reserves and I would argue that young players are better playing first team rugby in Champ/league1 than in a reserves league 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Possibly though not all clubs had reserves and I would argue that young players are better playing first team rugby in Champ/league1 than in a reserves league 

Some would agree and some wouldn't, I prefer reserves as it's their own systems and not as much intensity

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Griff said:

So it's their fault that there's a player shortage.  Is that what you're saying ?

I never said there was a player shortage - that's what said by SL supporters on here.

There is a broken link however with the amateur and pro game caused by RFL stopping everyone having "A" teams, so that SL teams can hoover up all the amateur juniors for their acadamies

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

A player shortage? When did that happen? 

Amateur clubs develop players and then they move through different pathways. Not everyone goes to a Superleague academy. And as we found out last season, despite the massive backlash that a few of these academies are not fit for purpose. 

Well Said

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Loads of players available, clubs wish to run a tight ship so don't have large squads.

Maybe the return of the reserves will help this?

Correct - but SL wont like that if all teams have "A" teams - SL wont have anywhere to send their excess squad and will thankfully be the end of the awful dual reg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

5 hours ago, steve oates said:

 

...from 1999 to 2009 Championship clubs went without any SKY money with no great detriment...

 

5 hours ago, steve oates said:

 

...When Bramley folded I felt that hard...

 

Bramley folded after the 1999 season (and Chorley in 2004).

I'm sure it can't all be blamed on the lack of central funding and perhaps we didn't have enough fans for the loss to be seen as a 'great detriment', but didn't the existence of Bramley (and other former clubs) contribute anything of value to the game?

Each of the lost clubs might only have attracted hundreds or a thousand fans each week, but those numbers add up.

The game gets less of my money now (adjusted for inflation!) than it did when Bramley were playing. I no longer have a club that are 'my team' so I'm not going to buy any merchandise, I'll go to a few matches at Leeds, Bradford or Hunslet each season, but I'm not buying tickets in the numbers I would at Bramley.

Each person/family lost due to championship or league 1 clubs folding means they and future generations of those families are lost to the game, or at least won't be engaged in it with the same passion. If enough clubs are put at risk, this can be a great detriment to the game.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

 

 

Bramley folded after the 1999 season (and Chorley in 2004).

I'm sure it can't all be blamed on the lack of central funding and perhaps we didn't have enough fans for the loss to be seen as a 'great detriment', but didn't the existence of Bramley (and other former clubs) contribute anything of value to the game?

Each of the lost clubs might only have attracted hundreds or a thousand fans each week, but those numbers add up.

The game gets less of my money now (adjusted for inflation!) than it did when Bramley were playing. I no longer have a club that are 'my team' so I'm not going to buy any merchandise, I'll go to a few matches at Leeds, Bradford or Hunslet each season, but I'm not buying tickets in the numbers I would at Bramley.

Each person/family lost due to championship or league 1 clubs folding means they and future generations of those families are lost to the game, or at least won't be engaged in it with the same passion. If enough clubs are put at risk, this can be a great detriment to the game.

Well said

-but you will get no sympathy from the SL fans because they are the "elite"

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

That's down to clubs being poorly run, nothing to do with a shortage of players. There is plenty of great talent coming through and plenty of players outside SL that could play at that level 

If you say so.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

Because of the RFL stopping of A teams

I wouldn't disagree with that, simplistic though it is.

Not so many years ago, clubs without A teams and Academy teams were looked down on as not doing their bit.

Now you need the RFL's permission to run one.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Have you got some salt and vinegar for that chip on your shoulder?

It's interesting (to me) Tommy and I'm only just beginning to appreciate the extent, of the resentment that exists, towards Super League clubs amongst fans of other (championship and league 1) clubs.

The animosity (maybe) runs deeper than ever I imagined and perhaps accounts (for example) for the decline in ticket sales, at the challenge cup final in Wembley.

I sense deep divisions (wounds) in the game (perhaps) brought about by ''political'' decisions favouring some clubs over others, based on geographical location or population size resulting in the favoured few (nouvelle elite) getting the lions share, of the cash ever since.

I'd be very wary of cutting loose, some of the poorer clubs in the next ''re-structuring''.

There could be very harmful, unintended (and unexpected) consequences of such a self-centred, short term, cannibalistic policy.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It's interesting (to me) Tommy and I'm only just beginning to appreciate the extent, of the resentment that exists, towards Super League clubs amongst fans of other (championship and league 1) clubs.

The animosity (maybe) runs deeper than ever I imagined and perhaps accounts (for example) for the decline in ticket sales, at the challenge cup final in Wembley.

I sense deep divisions (wounds) in the game (perhaps) brought about by ''political'' decisions favouring some clubs over others, based on geographical location or population size resulting in the favoured few (nouvelle elite) getting the lions share, of the cash ever since.

I'd be very wary of cutting loose, some of the poorer clubs in the next ''re-structuring''.

There could be very harmful, unintended (and unexpected) consequences of such a self-centred, short term, cannibalistic policy.

Of course, but its all a bit bald men fighting over a comb sadly.

Edited by Tommygilf
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Derwent Parker said:

B**locks its the amateur teams that develop the players

Your reply is just plain rude and ignorant.

All Superleague clubs run charitable foundations that benefit the local community and help and encourage kids into Rugby League. SKY paid/pay money for clubs to do this.

At Leeds Jamie Jones Buchanan did great charitable work alongside development work in which he would visit schools and encourage kids into Rugby League. This included kids coaching sessions and the half time kids games at Headingley where those with an interest could be directed to and welcomed by local amateur clubs.

The biggest in West Leeds, where Bramley used to play js JJB's old club Stanningley. This club has turned out a number of top professionals and  working with the Rhinos professional foundation and academy a solid supply of young players into the game has been created.......

So an apology would be welcome.........

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard as well as devastating funding cuts for league 1 clubs there will also be no travel grant. This obviously will hit clubs outside the M62 corridor hardest. A cynical person might see this as another way to reduce the number of clubs outside the heartlands 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

Bramley folded after the 1999 season 

I'm sure it can't all be blamed on the lack of central funding and perhaps we didn't have enough fans for the loss to be seen as a 'great detriment', but didn't the existence of Bramley (and other former clubs) contribute anything of value to the game?

Each of the lost clubs might only have attracted hundreds or a thousand fans each week, but those numbers add up.

Each person/family lost due to championship or league 1 clubs folding means they and future generations of those families are lost to the game, or at least won't be engaged in it with the same passion. If enough clubs are put at risk, this can be a great detriment to the game.

Your logic is completely flawed, apologies, but it is........

Bramley use to get gates of 1,000 when Leeds got 9,000.  These two clubs were close to each other. North Leeds players played at Bramley and West Leeds players played at Leeds.

When Superleague came along Bramley sank lower, but Leeds grew. Bramley used to be on 1000 fans and Leeds 9000.  By the year 2000 Bramley were gone and Leeds were on 12,000 fans, that's fans gained not lost and Stanningley, the big west Leeds amateur club were producing some fantastic players. 

Very few people were lost to the game, in fact post Bramley RL there were more fans and more players been produced. They just went to Leeds, because the big clubs attract fans and players......

No clubs are "ring fenced" It may be argued if Batley  went that would be a blow with less players produced and fans lost. Doesn't anyone remember when the Bulls were pulling massive crowds, Batley were moaning that Bradford Bulls were selling hundreds of season tickets in Batley before the start of each season. But these people wanted to watch Superleague and the players at Batley Boys wanted to become professionals at Bradford.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Your logic is completely flawed, apologies, but it is........

Bramley use to get gates of 1,000 when Leeds got 9,000.  These two clubs were close to each other. North Leeds players played at Bramley and West Leeds players played at Leeds.

When Superleague came along Bramley sank lower, but Leeds grew. Bramley used to be on 1000 fans and Leeds 9000.  By the year 2000 Bramley were gone and Leeds were on 12,000 fans, that's fans gained not lost and Stanningley, the big west Leeds amateur club were producing some fantastic players. 

Very few people were lost to the game, in fact post Bramley RL there were more fans and more players been produced. They just went to Leeds, because the big clubs attract fans and players......

No clubs are "ring fenced" It may be argued if Batley  went that would be a blow with less players produced and fans lost. Doesn't anyone remember when the Bulls were pulling massive crowds, Batley were moaning that Bradford Bulls were selling hundreds of season tickets in Batley before the start of each season. But these people wanted to watch Superleague and the players at Batley Boys wanted to become professionals at Bradford.

From my experience it is not necessarily the 1,000 who used to watch Bramley who make up the extra numbers at Leeds.

Sure, some will have started watching other clubs regularly, many (like me) became disillusioned with the sport for a number of years - I rarely went to a live game for 7 or 8 years after 1999. Even now, I will only go to around 5 to 7 live matches each year (picking and choosing matches as a neutral across a few local clubs if I notice a match I fancy seeing) rather than going most weeks to watch my team. Many people I know take a similar approach. It doesn't seem to be a natural thing to do to change loyalties, even when your club no longer exists.

Leeds' crowds grew during that period roughly in line with growing crowds across the whole sport. I have no evidence for it, but I suspect most were new fans (or existing Leeds fans attending more matches) and only a few were former Bramley fans.

I have no doubt that losing clubs loses fans and volunteers/administrators and (even if they are replaced) that is to the detriment of the sport.

Edited by Barley Mow
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leeds crowds have barely moved over the past three decades so this is a doubtful discussion. They bumped a bit when we first won a Grand Final but up to covid it's been broadly 12k to 15k since the late 80s with one outlier in 1996 when crowds dipped for a variety of reasons on and off the pitch and also as a legacy of the Super League battles.

Only someone with a disinterest in what makes Rugby League fans tick would think the Bramley fan base moved en masse over to watching Leeds. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, M j M said:

Only someone with a disinterest in what makes Rugby League fans tick would think the Bramley fan base moved en masse over to watching Leeds. 

Only someone who wants to push an argument would make up the idea Bramley fans moved en masse to Leeds.

That wasn't my point at all, never said it, my point was in line with the conversation about  losing clubs being heavily damaging to the game. I don't believe Bramley's loss was damaging to the game and the same can got for Hunslet if they finally give up. As the years pass the go to club for south Leeds RL fans has been increasingly to Headingley.

In short the way things have gone over the decades is the bigger clubs have got bigger and increased their reach whereas the small clubs have got smaller. Losing such tiny clubs is of course sad but the game itself loses nothing. Leeds will continue to have many fans in south Leeds and will continue to sign players from Hunslet Warriors and Hunslet Parkside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have we reached the end of SL as we know it?

Will we be having a dartsesque split with a new, cashed up governing body embracing change with applications invited to join it - muted to be a TV funded two tens with £2m per club in tier1 and £1.5m in tier 2, containing on the road fixtures in the States and Canada plus Eastern Europe, 9's events and 'Magic' type weekends??

Leaving what is currently SL on 'our league' app or between DIY shows on Dave?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • John Drake changed the title to League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...