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Small time SL reaction to the prospect of having Toulouse in their league


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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Ignoring the point that away fans are worth more to some SL clubs than commercial sponsors.  We're talking about SL here. 

I meant Fev or Toulouse as that has been the prompt, but in reality I'm taking 750 fans versus 0.

But if a club gets 1k average away fans that could easily be £260k income per year. Could be more, could be less. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Of course they should budget for away fans. 

It's an income stream. Why ignore it? That's just weird. 

It is likely a bigger income stream than their main sponsorship deal for some clubs. 

They have to Dave as you say. It is basic economics. 

At Batley they need to know the estimate of how many fans are expected. For instance home games against Dewsbury Bradford, Fev, Leigh will generate more income as they bring a lot of support. Knowing this will allow the club to maybe look at signing an extra or better player. 

If the four mentioned clubs were in a different division then there would be no extra money.

This principle applies regardless of home support except for the Man utd's who can sell out every game.

That's why for the FA cup and challenge cup most teams want a home draw against a well supported team. It means extra money to build a better team. 

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1 hour ago, lucky 7 said:

How can they budget for away fans when they don't know how many away fans will turn up on a certain day?

The same as you can't budget for Challenge cup crowds for the same reason

Good question.

You "profile" and estimate each month usually. The away fans figures are calculated using guides from previous years, averages etc taking into account the day and date played. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I meant Fev or Toulouse as that has been the prompt, but in reality I'm taking 750 fans versus 0.

But if a club gets 1k average away fans that could easily be £260k income per year. Could be more, could be less. 

But what is more in Wakefields control,  growing their own crowds by 1000, putting a 3g pitch down so they have a constant facility and new stand to increase commercial income or praying for the right promotion?

Just like England begging Australia as an International RL strategy, clubs have to look to what they can do first.  Wakefield could be and should be looking to match the 7000 of Cas in a modern stadium. 

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What is surely the obvious point here is that some clubs in Super League operate on fundamentally different fiscal outlooks. We're not talking smaller versions of bigger outfits, we're talking about entirely different business models. To put it in perspective, this isn't Co-Op or Aldi vs Asda or Tesco, its local corner shop vs Supermarket.

That is totally understandable for some clubs to operate that way. It makes very valid sense for them to do so. It sounds a bit tin pot because it is, but the clubs themselves shouldn't be criticised for that as they are effectively being asked to operate at a level way beyond their means and they are protecting that status.

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Why is there this assumption that it's Wakey and Carter who made these comments? I'd have thought there are other candidates for this sort of tripe from clubs that are less well run that Wakefield.

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42 minutes ago, Niels said:

They have to Dave as you say. It is basic economics. 

At Batley they need to know the estimate of how many fans are expected. For instance home games against Dewsbury Bradford, Fev, Leigh will generate more income as they bring a lot of support. Knowing this will allow the club to maybe look at signing an extra or better player. 

If the four mentioned clubs were in a different division then there would be no extra money.

This principle applies regardless of home support except for the Man utd's who can sell out every game.

That's why for the FA cup and challenge cup most teams want a home draw against a well supported team. It means extra money to build a better team. 

Again, we were talking about SL teams here not Batley. But taking your fa cup cc point, noone sensible would 'budget' (expect) that income,  merely a lucky bonus. Rivalries are great but clubs cannot be looking to other clubs fans to make up their commercial shortfalls.

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I wouldn’t minded seeing some passionate West Yorkshire derbies between Featherstone, Wakefield and Castleford (I’m guessing).

Must admit I found myself rooting for them as the underdog in the Championship Grand Final.

But Toulouse won and it’s vital that Super League chairman take advantage of their potential and not just see this as a threat, but an opportunity.

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56 minutes ago, M j M said:

Why is there this assumption that it's Wakey and Carter who made these comments? I'd have thought there are other candidates for this sort of tripe from clubs that are less well run that Wakefield.

To be fair he's usually one of the more vocal ones but your right, nothing has been confirmed. I just posted what most were probably thinking. 

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1 hour ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

To be fair he's usually one of the more vocal ones but your right, nothing has been confirmed. I just posted what most were probably thinking. 

That's my thoughts. The remarks are somewhat "on brand" for him, although he isn't the only candidate. 

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2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

But what is more in Wakefields control,  growing their own crowds by 1000, putting a 3g pitch down so they have a constant facility and new stand to increase commercial income or praying for the right promotion?

Just like England begging Australia as an International RL strategy, clubs have to look to what they can do first.  Wakefield could be and should be looking to match the 7000 of Cas in a modern stadium. 

Always nice to see these things turning into Wakefield bashing sessions, however the club is trying to do exactly what you are proposing. Whether it comes off is another matter though! 

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3 hours ago, Niels said:

They have to Dave as you say. It is basic economics. 

At Batley they need to know the estimate of how many fans are expected. For instance home games against Dewsbury Bradford, Fev, Leigh will generate more income as they bring a lot of support. Knowing this will allow the club to maybe look at signing an extra or better player. 

If the four mentioned clubs were in a different division then there would be no extra money.

This principle applies regardless of home support except for the Man utd's who can sell out every game.

That's why for the FA cup and challenge cup most teams want a home draw against a well supported team. It means extra money to build a better team. 

Please stop talking plain common sense, there’s no place for it here!

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5 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

They shouldn't rely on away support, but they do

Some of these clubs idea of marketing is to put a poster in a shop or pub window and just hope people turn up.

The world has moved on from a meat raffle on a Friday night at the local pub or club to generate some money and some Rugby League clubs need to move on as well into the 21st century with their marketing

You are right.

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3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

But what is more in Wakefields control,  growing their own crowds by 1000, putting a 3g pitch down so they have a constant facility and new stand to increase commercial income or praying for the right promotion?

Just like England begging Australia as an International RL strategy, clubs have to look to what they can do first.  Wakefield could be and should be looking to match the 7000 of Cas in a modern stadium. 

Why do you think clubs are just praying for the right promotion? 

If only clubs had thought of actually trying to do some stuff themselves. 

These either/or views you are presenting are as Hollow as the ones you are criticising. 

We need to stop judging all of SL because of one or two loudmouth tailing nonsense. 

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3 hours ago, M j M said:

Why is there this assumption that it's Wakey and Carter who made these comments? I'd have thought there are other candidates for this sort of tripe from clubs that are less well run that Wakefield.

It could also be a Bulls supporter as the comparison is with them. Has anyone seen Gledhill recently?

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I think people take these comments too literally, they are a bit of a red herring. I think there are some people who fundamentally don't believe that SL should be an international league. As I said elsewhere (it may be on this thread) I don't have a problem with that viewpoint, it's not on I agree with, and thankfully its not one that gains any kind of majority in the game to create a problem for Catalans or Toulouse - although it was a problem for TWP as that was probably a step too far for even some of the more moderate clubs.

But let's look at the actual grumble - away fans. At the moment it wouldn't be unusual for say 3 or 400 fans from a weak SL club going to a game as away fans. What kind of income is that driving - let's be generous and put it at £30 per head - that may be £9-12k income - for clubs that have income of between £4.5 to £10m. Its miniscule. Its a red herring. What this person means is that they don't believe it should be an international league and French teams shouldn't be in it. 

If you were going to be a real hard-nosed penny-pincher, you could make an argument that crowds of 45k and 50k for our major finals are disasters, no money is tipped into the pot from French deals, and now with 2 teams the central funding going to France over England is c£3m per annum. Thankfully the game isn't run by people so short-sighted (despite fans keep telling us it is) and French teams are being embedded into the UK pyramid. 

The issue comes when those given air time are those who provide the best click-bait. It is no coincidence that the article wasn't positioned as Hetherington celebrates the promotion of Toulouse, but was all about an anonymous naysayer. Why would that be? 

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's my thoughts. The remarks are somewhat "on brand" for him, although he isn't the only candidate. 

If I had to put money on anyone, it would be Carter, although we have seen him and Hudgell have consistent views, Pearson likes sounding off an DB is obviously someone with a real chip on his shoulder regarding TO.

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19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If I had to put money on anyone, it would be Carter, although we have seen him and Hudgell have consistent views, Pearson likes sounding off an DB is obviously someone with a real chip on his shoulder regarding TO.

Those would be my four candidates although Hudgell isn't really the voice of HKR any more. Davey might think it but wouldn't say it (probably). Lenagan who knows, the state of his club he might be reliant on those fans.

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6 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

Too true.... there is never enough distance twixt me and suggy and the rest of the barm pots with him!!🤣🤣🤣

I called into the Fev pub in Blackpool for a chat " he's swanning round France " was the reply " Tart " I replied , " who'd rather be in France than Blackpool " ?

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50 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think people take these comments too literally, they are a bit of a red herring. I think there are some people who fundamentally don't believe that SL should be an international league. As I said elsewhere (it may be on this thread) I don't have a problem with that viewpoint, it's not on I agree with, and thankfully its not one that gains any kind of majority in the game to create a problem for Catalans or Toulouse - although it was a problem for TWP as that was probably a step too far for even some of the more moderate clubs.

But let's look at the actual grumble - away fans. At the moment it wouldn't be unusual for say 3 or 400 fans from a weak SL club going to a game as away fans. What kind of income is that driving - let's be generous and put it at £30 per head - that may be £9-12k income - for clubs that have income of between £4.5 to £10m. Its miniscule. Its a red herring. What this person means is that they don't believe it should be an international league and French teams shouldn't be in it. 

If you were going to be a real hard-nosed penny-pincher, you could make an argument that crowds of 45k and 50k for our major finals are disasters, no money is tipped into the pot from French deals, and now with 2 teams the central funding going to France over England is c£3m per annum. Thankfully the game isn't run by people so short-sighted (despite fans keep telling us it is) and French teams are being embedded into the UK pyramid. 

The issue comes when those given air time are those who provide the best click-bait. It is no coincidence that the article wasn't positioned as Hetherington celebrates the promotion of Toulouse, but was all about an anonymous naysayer. Why would that be? 

They even added Karl Fitzpatrick to the article as a later addition yet still went with the single anonymous voice angle despite having three named SL sources.

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6 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

How can they budget for away fans when they don't know how many away fans will turn up on a certain day?

The same as you can't budget for Challenge cup crowds for the same reason

They don't know how many home fans are going to turn up either 

They use historical attendances from previous years to ' guess ' roughly how many fans will attend any given fixture , then budget accordingly 

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45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If I had to put money on anyone, it would be Carter, although we have seen him and Hudgell have consistent views, Pearson likes sounding off an DB is obviously someone with a real chip on his shoulder regarding TO.

To be honest I can't see it being Derek Beaumont. Why would he not want his name attributed to the comments given he's already threatened legal action? It would also be the most coherent thing DB has said so we can probably rule him out.

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4 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

But what is more in Wakefields control,  growing their own crowds by 1000, putting a 3g pitch down so they have a constant facility and new stand to increase commercial income or praying for the right promotion?

Just like England begging Australia as an International RL strategy, clubs have to look to what they can do first.  Wakefield could be and should be looking to match the 7000 of Cas in a modern stadium. 

They are 

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9 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

To be honest I can't see it being Derek Beaumont. Why would he not want his name attributed to the comments given he's already threatened legal action? It would also be the most coherent thing DB has said so we can probably rule him out.

Plus Derek Trump is not in Super League anymore so….

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