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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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7 hours ago, Total Rugby League said:

League Express has spoken to Cornwall RLFC Commercial Director Rob Butland about the prospects for Rugby League’s newest semi-professional club, which will join Betfred League 1 next season.

https://www.totalrl.com/q-a-all-you-need-to-know-about-cornwall-rlfc/

 

Can't say this fills me with tonnes of confidence. They hope Cornwall will embrace both codes. They hope there are enough local athletes who would like to play RL and/or that people from the heartlands will move to the SW - even though the anticipation is that this will be a PT team. They hope local media will be interested and the RL fans living locally will connect*.

I really want RL to expand but I am not confident that developing a club so far away from a solid base at the level proposed will work - - but I truly hope I am wrong.

*I have met a fair few away fans at Skolars some of whom live in London. If you are a London based Workington fan, say, you are not automatically going to start watching another club. In saying that how many RL fans are there in Cornwall?

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1 hour ago, newbe said:

I wonder if they cant get enough players, they will they base themselves in the heartlands, and play there games in  Cornwall, little like Hemel did when they trained in Dewsbury then bus the players in on match days.

What time do you propose for kick-offs?

Minimum 7 hours on a coach, then play a game?

May not be a crowd puller.

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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26 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

Can't say this fills me with tonnes of confidence. They hope Cornwall will embrace both codes. They hope there are enough local athletes who would like to play RL and/or that people from the heartlands will move to the SW - even though the anticipation is that this will be a PT team. They hope local media will be interested and the RL fans living locally will connect*.

I really want RL to expand but I am not confident that developing a club so far away from a solid base at the level proposed will work - - but I truly hope I am wrong.

*I have met a fair few away fans at Skolars some of whom live in London. If you are a London based Workington fan, say, you are not automatically going to start watching another club. In saying that how many RL fans are there in Cornwall?

I think the best way to grow rugby league is to expand the amatuer game. Broncos went from a few thousand fans down to a few hundred. They didn't adapt to changing demographics. Back in the 90s you could count on their being a lot of Northerners. Seemed like half the folks working with my father were from Yorkshire. Not so much anymore or at least they may be more inclined to go and see another sport.

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12 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

What time do you propose for kick-offs?

Minimum 7 hours on a coach, then play a game?

May not be a crowd puller.

As part of the Cornwall RL survey some time ago (which TotalRL members were encouraged to complete and a great many did), various options for preferred days-of-week and afternoon/evening were offered for opinion.

This important question was also asked in a separate survey for Cornwall residents.

I am confident that the findings will inform the organisers to the benefit of all.

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12 hours ago, EssexRL said:

Can't say this fills me with tonnes of confidence. They hope Cornwall will embrace both codes. They hope there are enough local athletes who would like to play RL and/or that people from the heartlands will move to the SW - even though the anticipation is that this will be a PT team. They hope local media will be interested and the RL fans living locally will connect*.

I really want RL to expand but I am not confident that developing a club so far away from a solid base at the level proposed will work - - but I truly hope I am wrong.

*I have met a fair few away fans at Skolars some of whom live in London. If you are a London based Workington fan, say, you are not automatically going to start watching another club. In saying that how many RL fans are there in Cornwall?

I don't think it was the most inspiring interview tbh. 

He was saying there are players already there. With respect there aren't. Rugby Union players are not RL players. He may feel the talent is there and they can create RL players, but there aren't the players there right now for an L1 team. 

He then says about players moving down to Cornwall, but will be offering part time jobs. I know that can work, and we see players going to France but that will be a challenge. If they house players etc. then I can see the appeal, but that will increase costs substantially. 

There was also the avoidance of naming the directors and management team. I know we know some details, but why didn't he answer that direct question? Is this another secretive Perez approach? 

His comparison of Newcastle to West Wales bring the same as Swinton to Cornwall was weird. 

Edited by Dave T
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21 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

A very good union player gets hammered by an average league player when both play RL.

Being fitter / faster / stronger does not make up for the lack of experience. You put 5 union guys in a 17 at L1 level and they’ll get thrashed every week. 

Understanding the game and bringing skills and speed up a few levels are the main requirements but there could be players down there who can adapt.  

If I was going down there to coach, I would be confident they exist, it’s just finding them.  

When I’ve watched WWR or St Gaudens, they always have opportunities to score but some players just lack the skills and decision making necessary right now.  Without those and some ‘bought in’ experience, Cornwall have the same challenges and they aren’t a quick fix but just because they’re RU players doesn’t right them off.

 

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7 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't think it was the most inspiring interview tbh. 

He was saying there are players already there. With respect there aren't. Rugby Union players are not RL players. He may feel the talent is there and they can create RL players, but there aren't the players there right now for an L1 team. 

He then says about players moving down to Cornwall, but will be offering part time jobs. I know that can work, and we see players going to France but that will be a challenge. If they house players etc. then I can see the appeal, but that will increase costs substantially. 

There was also the avoidance of naming the directors and management team. I know we know some details, but why didn't he answer that direct question? Is this another secretive Perez approach? 

His comparison of Newcastle to West Wales bring the same as Swinton to Cornwall was weird. 

There must be quite a few Aussies who would do the usual surfing trail to Newquay and St Ives might be tempted to stay the summer, work part time and play some footy? Can't see it working, it would need a core of RL players but others could learn quickly. They will be battling with West Wales and Skolars for the bottom spot. Good luck to them but they need to dig good roots and promote like hell. Cornwall is one of the few places in England where football is not big and rugby union is the main sport.  Teams may need to stay over night so that will be a real problem for LG1 teams with no cash. I think Perez has missed a trick and should have set up in Bristol. 

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I read the interview and it didn't fill me with any confidence. All the right words, but little of substance and the tricky questions were neatly side-stepped.

I'm desperately hoping that this is just marketing fluff and there is some realism behind the scenes. A good first indication would the appointment of an experienced coach - and by experienced, I mean, at this level - not some 'name' who is appointed on potential alone.

As for the traveling the best option for me would be to play games on Saturday evenings like Toronto did. Make a deal with the local University, who have a campus in Penryn I believe, for the visiting team to bunk there overnight.

That would make it a nice weekend for the teams - leave mid-morning and drive to Cornwall, play the game, have a good night in Penryn with food and booze, sleep if off overnight, have breakfast and then drive back, arriving back home by teatime. Even the most parochially-minded Northern teams surely couldn't moan about that?

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20 hours ago, EssexRL said:

Can't say this fills me with tonnes of confidence. They hope Cornwall will embrace both codes. They hope there are enough local athletes who would like to play RL and/or that people from the heartlands will move to the SW - even though the anticipation is that this will be a PT team. They hope local media will be interested and the RL fans living locally will connect*.

I really want RL to expand but I am not confident that developing a club so far away from a solid base at the level proposed will work - - but I truly hope I am wrong.

*I have met a fair few away fans at Skolars some of whom live in London. If you are a London based Workington fan, say, you are not automatically going to start watching another club. In saying that how many RL fans are there in Cornwall?

There aren't actually all that many Union fans either. Cornish Pirates owner puts in £1million a year and they get £140,000 from the RFU. Their average attendance is 1,700.

Redruth have had the biggest attendance in RFU's tier 4 this season - 950. At tier 7 where Penryn play, there are grounds with capacities of 500.

If you want a comparison with football, Truro City (owned by the Cornish Pirates) are the highest ranked football club in Cornwall. They average about 150. They had one attendance of 102 this season.

It just doesn't feel like a sporting hotbed.

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57 minutes ago, Quinskolar said:

I think Perez has missed a trick and should have set up in Bristol. 

Hmm, not convinced by Bristol. Neither of the football clubs is very good but it's a bit like Manchester or Liverpool in that everyone supports one or the other. The RU club's owned by a billionaire, and with the Bristol Combination, it's the only one of the old list A clubs that could recruit a top flight team without having to leave the confines of the county borough - ridiculous number of RU sides for a relatively small city. Then there's county cricket. Bristol looks good on paper but in reality would take a lot of work because it's a mature sports market. 

I would have been looking at any of Portsmouth, Reading, Norwich, Stoke, Derby - appreciate it's all pins in maps but I wouldn't start with Bristol or Cornwall.

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5 minutes ago, Billy King's Boots said:

There aren't actually all that many Union fans either. Cornish Pirates owner puts in £1million a year and they get £140,000 from the RFU. Their average attendance is 1,700.

Redruth have had the biggest attendance in RFU's tier 4 this season - 950. At tier 7 where Penryn play, there are grounds with capacities of 500.

If you want a comparison with football, Truro City (owned by the Cornish Pirates) are the highest ranked football club in Cornwall. They average about 150. They had one attendance of 102 this season.

It just doesn't feel like a sporting hotbed.

RU is a funny one though - that's one of the best attendances in the Championship at 1700... Premiership rugby is worth another 5-6k.

But I agree - and said earlier in this thread, sport in Cornwall is hyper local - rugby, rowing and wrestling, village v village. Tbh the bit that I agreed with in the launch release was that they genuinely have found the place most like the M62 in the rest of England*, but my take from that, unlike theirs, is that's precisely why it won't work.

The real Cornwall is a bit more Wycliffe than Doc Martin.

 

Edited by iffleyox
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5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

What is actually the level of player/squad required to be competitive in L1? 

from my time watching Oxford, I'd have said to not get tonked every week you need 7 if not 8 of your starting thirteen to be established league 1 players who know what they're doing, and everyone else to be a fast learner. Ideally I'd want a whole squad from the heartlands in year 1, because the one thing that Oxford did right in its first season was compete and win matches, which meant the curious locals came back to the next match. The Oxford board knew what it was about.

Getting smashed every week from day 1 is a daft idea. 

Edited by iffleyox
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3 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

from my time watching Oxford, I'd have said to not get tonked every week you need 7 if not 8 of your starting thirteen to be established league 1 players who know what they're doing, and everyone else to be a fast learner. Ideally I'd want a whole squad from the heartlands in year 1, because the one thing that Oxford did right in its first season was compete and win matches, which meant the curious locals came back to the next match. The Oxford board knew what it was about.

Getting smashed every week from day 1 is a daft idea. 

Thats always my problem when people say just find locals or grow naturally.  There is no growth getting pumped every week.  You need a serious investment when you launch and a top end League 1 budget to get momentum. Thats what 150,000 - 200,000 if you were close to heartlands you can at double that for Cornwall. 

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The bit in the interview about distances from 'Rochdale to Cornwall' is, I think, willfully disingenuous. If you're travelling from Rochdale, Bristol is pretty much half-way - but it's mostly motorway to Bristol. After that it's the South West's gridlocked summer A roads. And the Newcastle to London example is also a misdirection. In this case, Ealing is 70 miles fewer - and the vast majority is on faster roads, so it's almost two hours quicker. (timings below). We've done Skolars lots of times by train - dead easy. But it takes 2 hours 5 minutes to go from Newquay to Penryn by train - the same as Manchester to Euston!

Will I go? Yeah, probably. But people deserve a fair comparison.
 

Rochdale to Penryn
6 hr 45 min (353.1 mi) 

Rochdale to Bristol
3 hr 34 min (184.8 mi) 

Bristol to Penryn
3 hr 20 min (176.0 mi)

Newcastle to Ealing
4 hr 54 min (281.0 mi)
 

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6 minutes ago, Billy King's Boots said:

The bit in the interview about distances from 'Rochdale to Cornwall' is, I think, willfully disingenuous. If you're travelling from Rochdale, Bristol is pretty much half-way - but it's mostly motorway to Bristol. After that it's the South West's gridlocked summer A roads. And the Newcastle to London example is also a misdirection. In this case, Ealing is 70 miles fewer - and the vast majority is on faster roads, so it's almost two hours quicker. (timings below). We've done Skolars lots of times by train - dead easy. But it takes 2 hours 5 minutes to go from Newquay to Penryn by train - the same as Manchester to Euston!

Will I go? Yeah, probably. But people deserve a fair comparison.
 

Rochdale to Penryn
6 hr 45 min (353.1 mi) 

Rochdale to Bristol
3 hr 34 min (184.8 mi) 

Bristol to Penryn
3 hr 20 min (176.0 mi)

Newcastle to Ealing
4 hr 54 min (281.0 mi)
 

to be strictly fair it's motorway for another hour south of Bristol - to Exeter, then it depends where you're going as to how long you can stay on the Devon Expressway...

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11 minutes ago, Billy King's Boots said:

Interestingly, the entire population of Cornwall is about 500,000!

Spread across the county rather than in one city. Anyway, parachuting a team into Manchester isn't a good idea. Better to focus on growing the community game and developing established clubs in the area.

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1 minute ago, NW10LDN said:

Spread across the county rather than in one city. Anyway, parachuting a team into Manchester isn't a good idea. Better to focus on growing the community game and developing established clubs in the area.

Cornish Pirates invest £1,140,000 a year and attract 0.3% of the Cornish population (1,700). That's the equivalent of Oldham or Rochdale Hornets attracting a crowd of 750 (0.3% of their town's populations).

Cornwall RL are going to have to promote very hard to pull in good crowds - but the interview with Rob Butland dodges the question on what good looks like.

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