Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[ShropshireBull]

Meanwhile, 2500 at Barrow. Absolutely smashing it and seem to be fully established now at Champ level. All the more impressive as Barrow made Football League and hasnt stopped them growing. 

[NW10LDN]

4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Or have the team that represents the city actually play in the event, that might help... 

I don't think a part-time Thunder would have helped. They need to work out getting good crowds at Kingston Park first.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is an attendances thread so it is fair to ask what can be done to get more people in.

You’ve said yourself that Magic has essentially become a beer soaked weekend with some rugby attached.

It's also fair to suggest that a par average can just be appreciated for what it is. 

 

[Josef K]

How much profit do the clubs make out of a MW. 

[ShropshireBull]

28 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

I don't think a part-time Thunder would have helped. They need to work out getting good crowds at Kingston Park 

Well they are full time so point is nit valid and besides, Geordies wouldnt know or care about Newcastle ft pt status.  You give clubs like Newcastle the big stage to raise awareness in their home city to help them grow regular crowds, not the other way around. 

[M j M]

5 hours ago, Josef K said:

How much profit do the clubs make out of a MW. 

It's inherent to the Sky contract plus the staging fee paid by the city to SL, which has never been confirmed as far as I know but is presumably in the £100ks++

[GUBRATS]

11 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is an attendances thread so it is fair to ask what can be done to get more people in.

You’ve said yourself that Magic has essentially become a beer soaked weekend with some rugby attached.

Works for the darts and cricket  

And indeed the Union Internationals 

Edited July 11, 2022 by GUBRATS

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Works for the darts and cricket  

And indeed the Union Internationals 

Darts - well, if you like the way they cover up the empty spaces, they're doing amazing

Cricket - nope

Union internationals - no idea

But thanks for playing.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Darts - well, if you like the way they cover up the empty spaces, they're doing amazing

Cricket - nope

Union internationals - no idea

But thanks for playing.

Take away the booze and all 3 would be half empty at best , the point being is that booze and sporting ' events ' go together 

Did you go yesterday ? 

[GUBRATS]

11 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

How is it great stuff?  Pretty much zero growth for the last 5…6…7….8 years?  30,000 seats unsold, need to advertise more and get more locals and neutrals to give it a go.

Did you go ? 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, M j M said:

It's inherent to the Sky contract plus the staging fee paid by the city to SL, which has never been confirmed as far as I know but is presumably in the £100ks++

Is it inherent in the Sky contract? Sky buy a set number of games a year.

SL didn't introduce Magic for Sky and as far as I'm aware Sky have never paid a premium for it.

No one knows how much value Magic has or how much cities pay. I presume its far less than the figure you cite. I think the benefits are severely overegged by those that seek to justify it.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Take away the booze and all 3 would be half empty at best , the point being is that booze and sporting ' events ' go together 

Did you go yesterday ? 

No, but I am going to a couple of women's Euros and some international cricket games later. No booze expected. It's a long way to Newcastle but Brighton and Southampton are do-able.

We've done this before but I'll repeat it because some people seem to assume that only their way of going to an event is the one that matters: what cricket has done very well, and (after some failures this season in particular seems to be trying to work through again), is make the same event suitable for completely different audiences. Some will be there to drink all day in the sun, the majority will want a drink or two at points, some will be avoiding alcohol for cultural and/or family reasons. What rugby league does at its events is appeal to a narrow group and hope some others might tag along.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Damien said:

Is it inherent in the Sky contract? Sky buy a set number of games a year.

SL didn't introduce Magic for Sky and as far as I'm aware Sky have never paid a premium for it.

No one knows how much value Magic has or how much cities pay. I presume its far less than the figure you cite. I think the benefits are severely overegged by those that seek to justify it.

It started because Cardiff paid for it and then moved because other bids were more valuable - but I'm not sure there's been anything about receiving money from places for a long time.

Was there any Newcastle/Gateshead promotional stuff going on over the weekend? If yes, then chances are there is some kind of deal. If no, then chances are it's an SL event rental.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

No, but I am going to a couple of women's Euros and some international cricket games later. No booze expected. It's a long way to Newcastle but Brighton and Southampton are do-able.

We've done this before but I'll repeat it because some people seem to assume that only their way of going to an event is the one that matters: what cricket has done very well, and (after some failures this season in particular seems to be trying to work through again), is make the same event suitable for completely different audiences. Some will be there to drink all day in the sun, the majority will want a drink or two at points, some will be avoiding alcohol for cultural and/or family reasons. What rugby league does at its events is appeal to a narrow group and hope some others might tag along.

I've seen a rather surprising number of old friends on social media taking their kids to the Euros, very usually a daughter or daughters and sons. Normally it is associated with them saying they are taking their family to a football match, or any sports event, for the first time.

It shows to me there is a market for sporting events that are different and more family orientated. Also dare I say it, and without wishing to get into a completely different debate, for girls to want to watch women's sport and have female role models.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Damien

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Darts - well, if you like the way they cover up the empty spaces, they're doing amazing

Cricket - nope

Union internationals - no idea

But thanks for playing.

Its certainly a big part of the day(s) at Magic Weekend and one we shouldn't ignore. The Sunday attendances are always lower pretty much regardless of who is playing because of the same reasons pubs aren't as busy Sunday afternoons/evenings as they are on Saturdays.

What other events/sports seem to do a bit better is that they cater more specifically when they know that a booze up is a big part of the event. Take Cricket at Headingley, the Western Terrace and 1865 Enclosure are the home of beer snakes and fancy dress etc. They also have family stands and alcohol free sections. Do we do similar at Magic?

There's no shame in advertising Magic as a fun day out in summer with some Rugby attached. I'm flying home from Austria today where the F1 was a festival with some Racing going on. As long as it is stewarded and organised well with a range of activities and catering to non-drinking spectators (which yesterday I was one of), everyone should be able to have fun in their own way.

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It started because Cardiff paid for it and then moved because other bids were more valuable - but I'm not sure there's been anything about receiving money from places for a long time.

Was there any Newcastle/Gateshead promotional stuff going on over the weekend? If yes, then chances are there is some kind of deal. If no, then chances are it's an SL event rental.

Yes when it started a big song and dance was made about that. Since then, nothing, nada. There has never been mention of the financials. There are always a lot of myths used to try and justify it, and why we have to have it, but little hard evidence to back it up.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I've seen a rather surprising number of old friends on social media taking their kids to the Euros, very usually a daughter or daughters and sons. Normally it is associated with aoost saying they are taking their family to a football match, or any sports event, for the first time.

It shows to me there is a market for sporting events that are different and more familiar orienated. Also dare I say it, and without wishing to get into a completely different debate, for girls to want to watch women's sport and have female role models.

I said to a friend that Women's football crowds are far closer to Rugby than mens football in demographic, specifically in the positive atmosphere around the event and the lack of underlying aggression inherent in the support. Its nice.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Yes when it started a big song and dance was made about that. Since then, nothing, nada. There has never been mention of the financials. There are always a lot of myths used to try and justify it, and why we have to have it, but little hard evidence to back it up.

Every team gets on TV without losing a precious home crowd?

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No, but I am going to a couple of women's Euros and some international cricket games later. No booze expected. It's a long way to Newcastle but Brighton and Southampton are do-able.

We've done this before but I'll repeat it because some people seem to assume that only their way of going to an event is the one that matters: what cricket has done very well, and (after some failures this season in particular seems to be trying to work through again), is make the same event suitable for completely different audiences. Some will be there to drink all day in the sun, the majority will want a drink or two at points, some will be avoiding alcohol for cultural and/or family reasons. What rugby league does at its events is appeal to a narrow group and hope some others might tag along.

Who. Mentioned the football ? 

So they won't be selling booze at the cricket ? , I'm amazed 

In what way is the magic weekend not suitable for families or those who culturally don't drink ? 

Ok , so just the darts and union Internationals then 

Pretty poor argument you're making , is that just because it's me ? , Because you seem to argue anything and everything I post 

Bit of advice , reply to the post , not the poster 

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Every team gets on TV without losing a precious home crowd?

I don't mean to be dismissive of your point, as I'm sure it's a consideration, but such a point seems awfully small time when we are talking about a full time professional sport and what is already a bolted on loop fixture.

[cookey]

It's monday morning, so people are desperately trying to find something to complain about.

[Tommygilf]

55 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't mean to be dismissive of your point, as I'm sure it's a consideration, but such a point seems awfully small time when we are talking about a full time professional sport and what is already a bolted on loop fixture.

I appreciate it is incredibly small time, but sadly that doesn't make it less likely imo.

[Toby Chopra]

Could attendances at Magic be better? Sure, and they have been in recent years. But by and large the numbers seem to be driven by how many existing fans of the participating clubs want to go. Some years it's higher than others. 

I'm not sure we ever going to get a huge neutrals crowd in Newcastle - it really is a long way from where the bulk of the UK population is - midlands and south - and I think neutrals there have easier options to see top class rugby league. I don't go to Newcastle Magics for just that reason. And the local market just isnt that big - the entire Northeast from the border to Middlesbrough is smaller than Greater Manchester. So I'd say it is what it is - largely an away day for existing northern fans and a nice event for Sky. Both aspects have value, but probably aren't going to grow much from there, unless the sport as a whole grows. 

(As an aside, I AM going to Newcastle for a weekend this year to watch multiple games of league - for the opening weekend of the World Cup! So worth it for a once in a generation game like that, but for me Magic's not special enough to make the trek from the south on an annual basis, when I can attend other big games more easily.)

EDIT: On reflection, I think the World Cup will have an impact on all sorts of attendances this year as people have already comitted to tickets, hotels etc. The net result will be positive for the game, so I don't think we should sweat it too hard if Magic or the GF are a bit down this year. Let's see where all the big event crowds are at in 2023.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Toby Chopra
Extra

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

What other events/sports seem to do a bit better is that they cater more specifically when they know that a booze up is a big part of the event. Take Cricket at Headingley, the Western Terrace and 1865 Enclosure are the home of beer snakes and fancy dress etc. They also have family stands and alcohol free sections. Do we do similar at Magic?

Pretty much what I mean.

When I go to the cricket, I book the guaranteed alcohol free section (and such sections are about 1/10 of the ground) because I know I'll be driving home. In the family stands you can have a beer but you can't be drunk.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I've seen a rather surprising number of old friends on social media taking their kids to the Euros, very usually a daughter or daughters and sons. Normally it is associated with aoost saying they are taking their family to a football match, or any sports event, for the first time.

It shows to me there is a market for sporting events that are different and more familiar orienated. Also dare I say it, and without wishing to get into a completely different debate, for girls to want to watch women's sport and have female role models.

As part of my ongoing German learning, I was listening to German radio yesterday and they had a report from a woman who'd attended their game in Brentford the evening before. She was absolutely buzzing about how nice it was to be in an English crowd who were behaving positively towards both teams.

It's not for everyone but, to link to the wider point about triple headers and our meat raffle approach to 'value', it does show that there are different audiences attending women's football than might go to men's. We could have some of that for rugby league if we didn't keep wrapping up our women's events as curtain raisers.