Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, daz39 said:

I'm sure the sport as a whole will be more happy to concentrate on the positives Meast mentioned, having 40,000, 4,000 or 400 fans doesn't take away from the real positive stuff Huddersfield offer to the sport, clearly to some people on social media forums though they aren't as important as how many seats are filled. 

Not even how many seats are filled, it’s the percentage of seats that are filled that concerns some people. If you look at many if not most Serie A or La Liga games there are swathes of empty seats, I doubt they hand wring about that. 

[daz39]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

I’m sure HG are more concerned than anyone. How would you propose that Huddersfield increase their attendances though? Meast and Daz have explained why they are low, so what would you do about it? 

yes, do enlighten us, I will of course pass your ideas onto Ken Davy and Richard Thewlis who I would imagine will be delighted to know you have the answers they have spent millions of pounds and many years trying to find. 

*that comment was aimed at bitterbull not you  Eddie. 

[idrewthehaggis]

On 10/08/2022 at 12:55, Scubby said:

The Leeds-Salford crowd was interesting. Was the first clash when both clubs were on form - circa 14,660 was a great crowd

Shows that really competitive fixtures will get crowds. Wigan hosting Toulouse for a second time however is an absolute crowd killer. What is the point of spending weeks marketing a novel fixture like Toulouse, getting 14.5k and then just playing them again randomly in a loop fixture a few weeks later. We have to figure this out. Scarcity creates demand in my book!

You would think they would play the loop fixtures first off in a season. Then the regular 22 round robin afterwards. But that assumes a level of sensibility and thought for the SL.

[M j M]

37 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

You would think they would play the loop fixtures first off in a season. Then the regular 22 round robin afterwards. But that assumes a level of sensibility and thought for the RFL.

It's SL who set the fixtures, not the RFL.

[idrewthehaggis]

Corrected then. 

Still would make better sense to play them first. 

Interesting to see what the table would be without those loop fixtures?

[Wholly Trinity]

1 hour ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Corrected then. 

Still would make better sense to play them first. 

Interesting to see what the table would be without those loop fixtures?

How do you know which are the loop fixtures? (other than magic, which is fixed)

As an example, Wakefield's loop fixtures this year were against those who finished in even places in 2021.

Location and round

Saints A3 H20 A26

Wigan A9 H17 H23

Hull KR A10 A19 H25

Hull FC H1 H14 A24

Toulouse H5 A12 N18

So, other than Toulouse, and perhaps Wigan swapping because of stadium availability, the loop fixtures could be seen as in the first part of the season. In fact, the last fixtures against the Hull sides could not be the loop fixtures as they're unique.

[meast]

12 hours ago, NW10LDN said:

Their attendances are still poor but Huddersfield aren't the only club with that problem.

Poor as in loads of empty seats it poor as in very few supporters?

If the former, then every club has that problem

If the latter then criticism should be aimed at most clubs for 'poor attendances '

[meast]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Not even how many seats are filled, it’s the percentage of seats that are filled that concerns some people. If you look at many if not most Serie A or La Liga games there are swathes of empty seats, I doubt they hand wring about that. 

You only have to watch any NRL game and see shots of empty seats but I doubt anyone would call for the likes of Sydney Roosters or Penrith Panthers to be dropped because of the empty seats.

I don't see many football fans claiming clubs shouldn't be allowed in a certain division because of how many empty seats there are.

I doubt Sky, the BBC or C4 give a ###### how many empty seats there are to be honest.

Rugby league fans are a strange bunch sometimes.

[Toby Chopra]

3 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

You would think they would play the loop fixtures first off in a season. Then the regular 22 round robin afterwards. But that assumes a level of sensibility and thought for the SL.

Stretched out over a whole season, people don't really have any sense about whether the are in the "loop fixtures zone" or not - the games don't come with any special labels, they're just games. They do, however, have a sense of if they're playing a team for a third time, whenever that occurs, or for a second time at home. So if we're going to have loop games, whether they're at the beginning, the end or randomly sprinkled thoughout the year, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Wholly Trinity]

11 minutes ago, meast said:

Poor as in loads of empty seats it poor as in very few supporters?

If the former, then every club has that problem

If the latter then criticism should be aimed at most clubs for 'poor attendances '

What matters in the real world is matchday revenue.

It was stated recently by the CEO at Wakefield that although the game against Wigan had higher attendance, the revenue was lower. (promotional tickets available for the last game before the demolition of the east stand)

As an accountant, the relatively high ticket price is set to maximise revenue. The new stand will allow a previously unavailable market of premium tickets and hospitality = increased revenue. 

The previous regime had a sell 'em cheap and stack 'em high philosophy which almost ended in administration. 

[Josef K]

6,100 at Cas tonight. I don’t know how many was on at HKR but it looked a decent turnout and both sets of fans were very vocal. 

[Ragingbull]

8 hours ago, meast said:

You only have to watch any NRL game and see shots of empty seats but I doubt anyone would call for the likes of Sydney Roosters or Penrith Panthers to be dropped because of the empty seats.

I don't see many football fans claiming clubs shouldn't be allowed in a certain division because of how many empty seats there are.

I doubt Sky, the BBC or C4 give a ###### how many empty seats there are to be honest.

Rugby league fans are a strange bunch sometimes.

Cant have seen many Penrith home games over the last few years.   RL is booming at the foot of the mountains. 

[Ragingbull]

1 hour ago, Josef K said:

6,100 at Cas tonight. I don’t know how many was on at HKR but it looked a decent turnout and both sets of fans were very vocal. 

Always a tough sell when its Catalan unless clubs put some sort of ticket offer on.  Great to see Warrington doing quid a kid for their game against Toulouse.  Certainly helped boost what would have been a poor crowd otherwise. 

 

Hopefully good numers for Cas for the remainder of the year.  They are playing well and have some big games yet. Great place to be when its bouncing.

[RayCee]

Below I'm comparing averages in SL for 2022 against a full 2019 season. With crowd disruptions in the intervening years, it was the last season with a comparable season of open attendances. Toulouse doesn't count as it was in the Championship but numbers in 2022 are up 87% on that season. The poor Catalan figure is due to a match taken to Barcelona in 2019 which distorted it's average for that season. Take that game out of the equation and it was down 7%. 

Toulouse	4,620	n/a
Salford	4,540	30%
Huddersfield	5,781	13%
Magic w/e	62,154	9%
Castleford	7,690	3%
Leeds	12,844	1%
St Helens	12,274	0%
Wigan	11,581	-2%
Average	8,169	-3%
Hull KR	7,810	-5%
Wakefield	4,673	-13%
Hull FC	9,922	-16%
Warrington	8,915	-20%
Catalans	7,996	-25%

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

I've really enjoyed last 2 SL on Sky- having decent crowds at each helped 

Can I confess to not liking new set up at leeds- the large block of North stand seats is not attractive 

Hull fc should open up whole East Stand as that looks ridiculous on tv 

Good on tv- saints, cas, Warrington, Hull kr, 

OK on tv- hull fc, leeds, wigan, Wakefield, catalans 

Bad on tv- hudd, salford, tolouse, 

[Eddie]

22 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

I've really enjoyed last 2 SL on Sky- having decent crowds at each helped 

Can I confess to not liking new set up at leeds- the large block of North stand seats is not attractive 

Hull fc should open up whole East Stand as that looks ridiculous on tv 

Good on tv- saints, cas, Warrington, Hull kr, 

OK on tv- hull fc, leeds, wigan, Wakefield, catalans 

Bad on tv- hudd, salford, tolouse, 

If your bad on tv classifications is based on the ground looking empty I’d add Wigan and Hull to the list. Warrington have moved from good to ok this season also. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

Below I'm comparing averages in SL for 2022 against a full 2019 season. With crowd disruptions in the intervening years, it was the last season with a comparable season of open attendances. Toulouse doesn't count as it was in the Championship but numbers in 2022 are up 87% on that season. The poor Catalan figure is due to a match taken to Barcelona in 2019 which distorted it's average for that season. Take that game out of the equation and it was down 7%. 

Toulouse	4,620	n/a
Salford	4,540	30%
Huddersfield	5,781	13%
Magic w/e	62,154	9%
Castleford	7,690	3%
Leeds	12,844	1%
St Helens	12,274	0%
Wigan	11,581	-2%
Average	8,169	-3%
Hull KR	7,810	-5%
Wakefield	4,673	-13%
Hull FC	9,922	-16%
Warrington	8,915	-20%
Catalans	7,996	-25%

Thanks for this Ray. For the last few years I’ve been happy that we’ve got five clubs who consistently average in five figures, so it’s really worrying that there are only three this year. Admittedly Wire’s attendances are suffering from their atrocious form on the pitch and hopefully will be back when their team improves. 

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

I've really enjoyed last 2 SL on Sky- having decent crowds at each helped 

Can I confess to not liking new set up at leeds- the large block of North stand seats is not attractive 

Hull fc should open up whole East Stand as that looks ridiculous on tv 

Good on tv- saints, cas, Warrington, Hull kr, 

OK on tv- hull fc, leeds, wigan, Wakefield, catalans 

Bad on tv- hudd, salford, tolouse, 

How does Saints get to 'good' on tv when they are the worst of the Big Three (clubs with their own stadia) for having empty seats facing the camera?

[Ragingbull]

1 hour ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

I've really enjoyed last 2 SL on Sky- having decent crowds at each helped 

Can I confess to not liking new set up at leeds- the large block of North stand seats is not attractive 

Hull fc should open up whole East Stand as that looks ridiculous on tv 

Good on tv- saints, cas, Warrington, Hull kr, 

OK on tv- hull fc, leeds, wigan, Wakefield, catalans 

Bad on tv- hudd, salford, tolouse, 

O gosh you have started something now.   This will get everyones back up!  Heres comes everyone to defend their own club / take a shot at their rivals. 

Queue the "what do you mean XXXX (insert name of the team the poster supports) looks bad on on tv.  We look better than XXXXX" 

 

[Dave T]

So, my regular complaints about my club, here goes this week's edition! 

The club made a good effort with families the other night, they got 9.3k in and the atmosphere was great. Whilst having lunch in town last week I was handed 4 free tickets by Wolfie so we went into this family stand for a change. 

The experience was horrible. 

Queues to get in, fine, but families were basically having over-aggressive searches and a young family with kids with faces painted etc were having their first experience of the evening being of having to stand at the side of the turnstile drinking their drinks before they went in, in 30 degree heat. When I had tickets for the Women's Euros recently, they used the app to tell us that rules had relaxed because of the weather and we could take in bottles of water due to the weather. 

Once in, the concourses were packed and like a sauna. There were two kiosks, both had around 100 to 150 people in the queue. It was so hot that everyone wanted a drink, many just left it and watched the game without drinks in uncomfortable heat. 

I went down after 20 mins as we needed drinks, and missed 15 minutes of the game. The stadium used to have TVs in the concourses to at least show the game when queueing. Service was slow, disorganised and not up to the standard you 3zpect at a stadium. 

In the bowl, it was fine, the view from what is usually the away end shows what a lovely facility we have, it really is a great view from there. But if I was interested in what was going on, tough - the speakers couldn't be heard other than muffled music, the screen is small and half of it used for sponsors meaning you just can't see replays or what is going on. 

Once again, the whole thing felt cheap, tired and dated. Fortunately the game was good and tight, the atmosphere was great and people did seem to enkoy themselves, but it is a massive bugbear of mine when we don't make things easy for people. The organised stuff wasn't great for families the other night and it matches my experiences throughout the year. I can see a lot of people not rushing back, despite having a nice enough time. 

[fighting irish]

54 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So, my regular complaints about my club, here goes this week's edition! 

The club made a good effort with families the other night, they got 9.3k in and the atmosphere was great. Whilst having lunch in town last week I was handed 4 free tickets by Wolfie so we went into this family stand for a change. 

The experience was horrible. 

Queues to get in, fine, but families were basically having over-aggressive searches and a young family with kids with faces painted etc were having their first experience of the evening being of having to stand at the side of the turnstile drinking their drinks before they went in, in 30 degree heat. When I had tickets for the Women's Euros recently, they used the app to tell us that rules had relaxed because of the weather and we could take in bottles of water due to the weather. 

Once in, the concourses were packed and like a sauna. There were two kiosks, both had around 100 to 150 people in the queue. It was so hot that everyone wanted a drink, many just left it and watched the game without drinks in uncomfortable heat. 

I went down after 20 mins as we needed drinks, and missed 15 minutes of the game. The stadium used to have TVs in the concourses to at least show the game when queueing. Service was slow, disorganised and not up to the standard you 3zpect at a stadium. 

In the bowl, it was fine, the view from what is usually the away end shows what a lovely facility we have, it really is a great view from there. But if I was interested in what was going on, tough - the speakers couldn't be heard other than muffled music, the screen is small and half of it used for sponsors meaning you just can't see replays or what is going on. 

Once again, the whole thing felt cheap, tired and dated. Fortunately the game was good and tight, the atmosphere was great and people did seem to enkoy themselves, but it is a massive bugbear of mine when we don't make things easy for people. The organised stuff wasn't great for families the other night and it matches my experiences throughout the year. I can see a lot of people not rushing back, despite having a nice enough time. 

I think you've highlighted a number of things here which (must) mar the experience for all the paying customers. Additionally, they aren't that difficult to improve. I know you are a Warrington fan through and through but are you in touch with anyone at the club who has the authority (and cares enough) to put these issues right?

As an aside, my first cousin is Bobby Wanbon who signed for Saints but moved to Warrington and spent the rest of his playing career with them. Do you know our Bobby? 

[Dave T]

38 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I think you've highlighted a number of things here which (must) mar the experience for all the paying customers. Additionally, they aren't that difficult to improve. I know you are a Warrington fan through and through but are you in touch with anyone at the club who has the authority (and cares enough) to put these issues right?

As an aside, my first cousin is Bobby Wanbon who signed for Saints but moved to Warrington and spent the rest of his playing career with them. Do you know our Bobby? 

I don't know anyone who works at the club, having lived and worked out of town for well over a decade. I have written to them in the past, but tbh, they don't seem to care - the things I refer to are simple things, and in many cases they are things that have been done in the past. 

Now, that may lead one to suggest the ROI wasn't good enough to keep on with them, but for me, the drops we are seeing are evidence of the poor experience - even before it became evident we were a poor team this year, crowds were down. 

On your cousin, I'm afraid he was before my time, but just had a quick luck at his career on wiki. I think RL is a far poorer game now we no longer get the Welsh RU players converting to RL. I note he played at Wembley in our 70s appearances, so know my Mum and Dad would have been aware of him. 

[soulboy]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I think you've highlighted a number of things here which (must) mar the experience for all the paying customers. Additionally, they aren't that difficult to improve. I know you are a Warrington fan through and through but are you in touch with anyone at the club who has the authority (and cares enough) to put these issues right?

As an aside, my first cousin is Bobby Wanbon who signed for Saints but moved to Warrington and spent the rest of his playing career with them. Do you know our Bobby? 

I remember Bobby Wanbon playing for Warrington.

He played in CC final against Featherstone Rovers In 74 and against Widnes in 75 .

He was also the landlord of The Old Ball Pub in Warrington . The pub has been demolished and is now a car wash . 

If the pub was still open , it would have been about 50 yards away from The Halliwell Jones , IKEA flat pack stadium .

[Dallas Mead]

1 hour ago, soulboy said:

I remember Bobby Wanbon playing for Warrington.

He played in CC final against Featherstone Rovers In 74 and against Widnes in 75 .

He was also the landlord of The Old Ball Pub in Warrington . The pub has been demolished and is now a car wash . 

If the pub was still open , it would have been about 50 yards away from The Halliwell Jones , IKEA flat pack stadium .

I’m pretty sure it was the Red Lion in Stockton Heath he was the landlord of mate.

[soulboy]

4 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

I’m pretty sure it was the Red Lion in Stockton Heath he was the landlord of mate.

From the Warrington Guardian.

From 1977 until 1999 he was behind the bar at various watering holes, starting at The Prince of Wales, moving on to the Old Ball, The Howley, the King and Queen before finishing at the Red Lion in Stockton Heath.