Thur 10th Mar: SL: Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC KO 8pm (Sky)

[redjonn]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The difference between Leeds and Saints is how well they shift their youngers players on if they are not going to make top level players. They have been good at that and when you see players like Richards, Swift and Richardson etc kicking around at other clubs you do realise they weren't that great just in a great system.

Leeds do seem to be more sticky with this. You do see players floating around in the 17 and you think it's been years now, these guys are no where near the hype they were given when they first arrived.

Newman and Gannon I think are the exception. I hope the former can really get a run of games as he looks class.

Yep, hard to disagree. Over the last number of years/last 10 years I've listened to many Leeds officials/staff and fans suggesting a great future given the calibre of youngsters coming through. Yet few have become the outstanding players expected.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The difference between Leeds and Saints is how well they shift their youngers players on if they are not going to make top level players. They have been good at that and when you see players like Richards, Swift and Richardson etc kicking around at other clubs you do realise they weren't that great just in a great system.

Leeds do seem to be more sticky with this. You do see players floating around in the 17 and you think it's been years now, these guys are no where near the hype they were given when they first arrived.

Newman and Gannon I think are the exception. I hope the former can really get a run of games as he looks class.

Newman is all class, both in attitude and ability, it’s no coincidence that the only decent 50 minutes they have played this year is when he’s been on the field.

Gannon is the real deal aswell IMO

Although im not quite sure what point you are making with regards to Leeds youngsters, there aren’t hardly any getting near the 17, a lot of Leeds fans think that’s actually the issue!

[Saint Toppy]

22 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I can see why but ive already mentioned different styles of coaches.  I know which style gets the best out of players and Bennett has proved that over and again.  

Not for a long time he hasn't. His last major trophy win was in 2010 with Newcastle. He's lauded as a 'super coach' but to be honest I just don't see it anymore, that title is very much based on past glories, primarily in his first stint at Brisbane.

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Yep, hard to disagree. Over the last number of years/last 10 years I've listened to many Leeds officials/staff and fans suggesting a great future given the calibre of youngsters coming through. Yet few have become the outstanding players expected.

I think it’s only over the last year or so that I’ve actually heard of our up and coming youngsters to be outstanding and to be fair we do seem to have a few coming through. Its how they are integrated that’s the key.

The problem Leeds have now is any you gsters are being automatically compared to the ‘golden generation’ when in reality that amount of quality all coming through together will probably not happen again in mine or your lifetime 

[Scubby]

Just now, Saint Toppy said:

Not for a long time he hasn't. His last major trophy win was in 2010 with Newcastle. He's lauded as a 'super coach' but to be honest I just don't see it anymore, that title is very much based on past glories, primarily in his first stint at Brisbane.

He came in at a few weeks notice and won the State of Origin with Queensland in 2020. They should not have got anywhere near that NSW team - even had to pick Brenko Lee, Edrick Lee and Dunamis Lui.

[Scubby]

8 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Newman is all class, both in attitude and ability, it’s no coincidence that the only decent 50 minutes they have played this year is when he’s been on the field.

Gannon is the real deal aswell IMO

Although im not quite sure what point you are making with regards to Leeds youngsters, there aren’t hardly any getting near the 17, a lot of Leeds fans think that’s actually the issue!

There is also no way a group of home grown players like that would stick together again under a miserly salary cap. It's obvious some amazing players took unders to stick in that environment. Completely unique.

[Ant]

I wonder if Leeds, while having a huge pool of youth talent to draw on, aren't really good at developing it? 

Because they have so many young players, an new wunderkind will be along soon and the old one, who never kicked on, is shipped off.

Just a thought. 

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

There is also no way a group of home grown players like that would stick together again under a miserly salary cap. It's obvious some amazing players took unders to stick in that environment. Completely unique.

And I bet theres a few that did leave to take more cash now regret that as they didn’t achieve anything of note after leaving!

players like Mathers and Lee Smith for example, although having said that we brought Brent Webb in for him, and Leeds would fans would give their back teeth to get a quality player like that in now.

Leeds fans were utterly blessed in the 00’s and we probably took it a little for Granted, look at the players we had in that time

Brent Webb

Danny Mcguire

Kevin Sinfield

Rob Burrow

Gareth Ellis

Jamie Peacock

Ali Lauititi

Danny Buderus

Ryan Hall

Keith Senior

David Furner

Kylie Leului

 

mix that with some workhorses and some homegrown players with talent like, JJB, Ablett (under rated imo) ryan Bailey, Matt Diskin, Lee Smith etc

its not hard to see why we’ve dropped off so rapidly

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

The game in Friday is huge for Leeds for a number of reasons.

If they don’t have a change in attitude Agars gone (if he hasn’t gone before)

if they don’t put in s good performance what should be a great occasion in the Saints home game which is in the preferred time-slot of Friday night will be a total fizzer.

If they don’t pick up a win, I think the season’s done for us.

 

Basically the team, coaching staff and management all should be taking a good  look at themselves and asking themselves what they are wanting to achieve at Leeds Rhinos. The fans and sponsors who have stuck by them deserve a lot better than they are getting at the moment both on and off the pitch.

How many have already deserted though Chris, I saw the attendance last night was 11,000 and something, how many Hull fans made the trip? usually for a big game a couple of thousand black and whites follow them, if so that will be 9000 and something loiners, isn't that a big reduction for such a game of only a few season's ago?

It is just an observation, nothing else.

[Mattrhino]

48 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Yep, hard to disagree. Over the last number of years/last 10 years I've listened to many Leeds officials/staff and fans suggesting a great future given the calibre of youngsters coming through. Yet few have become the outstanding players expected.

Yep, we still have players who are supposedly "up and coming" yet are like 25-26 years old.

[Mattrhino]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How many have already deserted though Chris, I saw the attendance last night was 11,000 and something, how many Hull fans made the trip? usually for a big game a couple of thousand black and whites follow them, if so that will be 9000 and something loiners, isn't that a big reduction for such a game of only a few season's ago?

It is just an observation, nothing else.

TBF there was a big Leeds United game on too. Probably took a bit off the attendance.

[Harry Stottle]

43 minutes ago, Scubby said:

There is also no way a group of home grown players like that would stick together again under a miserly salary cap. It's obvious some amazing players took unders to stick in that environment. Completely unique.

I remember Sinfield being interviewed when he said, most of this squad could earn more elsewhere, but we choose to stick together.

[Chrispmartha]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How many have already deserted though Chris, I saw the attendance last night was 11,000 and something, how many Hull fans made the trip? usually for a big game a couple of thousand black and whites follow them, if so that will be 9000 and something loiners, isn't that a big reduction for such a game of only a few season's ago?

It is just an observation, nothing else.

Im struggling to find attendance figures for either the 2016 or 2017 fixtures which are the only comparable ones as the one in 2019 was a sell out double header so can’t be compared.

i would imagine its about 2 thousand down though?

[Chrispmartha]

8 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Yep, we still have players who are supposedly "up and coming" yet are like 25-26 years old.

Who?

 

i can only think of Handley and I don’t think he’s described  as up and coming is he? Hes co captain and has been in and around international selection for a while.

[Lowdesert]

57 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Not for a long time he hasn't. His last major trophy win was in 2010 with Newcastle. He's lauded as a 'super coach' but to be honest I just don't see it anymore, that title is very much based on past glories, primarily in his first stint at Brisbane.

Just think a bit before you write anything Toppy.  

[Scubby]

17 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Im struggling to find attendance figures for either the 2016 or 2017 fixtures which are the only comparable ones as the one in 2019 was a sell out double header so can’t be compared.

i would imagine its about 2 thousand down though?

Leeds first 5 home games 2017

• Salford R2 14,575
• Catalans R4 13,208
• Wakefield R5 14,411
• Wigan R7 17,030
• Widnes R10 (Easter Mon) 15,408

Average 14,926

[Old Frightful]

37 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

How many have already deserted though Chris, I saw the attendance last night was 11,000 and something, how many Hull fans made the trip? usually for a big game a couple of thousand black and whites follow them, if so that will be 9000 and something loiners, isn't that a big reduction for such a game of only a few season's ago?

It is just an observation, nothing else.

To be fair, not as many as normally might. Short turnaround for the speccies as well as the players and with a disappointing run out at Cas four days previous, the game covered live on Sky, I imagine a fair few probably stayed away. I would hazard a guess at about 1200 ish compared to the 2000+ we usually fill the Western terrace with.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, jacksy said:

So have quite a few others. Should everybody who has been sent off this season due to the clampdown be discarded?

Shome mishtake shurely. This is about Connor brain farts. Evidence of several. Its not a whataboutwhataboutwhatabout opportunity.

[Karen]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

Im struggling to find attendance figures for either the 2016 or 2017 fixtures which are the only comparable ones as the one in 2019 was a sell out double header so can’t be compared.

i would imagine its about 2 thousand down though?

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/Custom/NDEtLS0tLS0tLS0tLTM0LS1uLS0tLS0tLS0=

[FearTheVee]

I don't think Leeds are a tough team.  I think they (and Hull to be fair) are a bit soft.

The recent Out Of Your League podcast with Morgan Knowles had a quote from him is his younger days when he said: "I had to be good at the mental side.  I've never been the most talented but will do the things others won't - when games are tough I never look for an easy way out.  Other people will break before I do".

I think when you watch Saints they have fostered this sort of attitude.  The coach has it in bucketloads.  They are intense, tough, enjoy the hard parts of the game and take pride in them.

I think Leeds are poorly coached and a bit soft.

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, FearTheVee said:

I don't think Leeds are a tough team.  I think they (and Hull to be fair) are a bit soft.

The recent Out Of Your League podcast with Morgan Knowles had a quote from him is his younger days when he said: "I had to be good at the mental side.  I've never been the most talented but will do the things others won't - when games are tough I never look for an easy way out.  Other people will break before I do".

I think when you watch Saints they have fostered this sort of attitude.  The coach has it in bucketloads.  They are intense, tough, enjoy the hard parts of the game and take pride in them.

I think Leeds are poorly coached and a bit soft.

Leeds are everything that 2015 treble winning leeds team werent

[MZH]

18 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

I don't think Leeds are a tough team.  I think they (and Hull to be fair) are a bit soft.

The recent Out Of Your League podcast with Morgan Knowles had a quote from him is his younger days when he said: "I had to be good at the mental side.  I've never been the most talented but will do the things others won't - when games are tough I never look for an easy way out.  Other people will break before I do".

I think when you watch Saints they have fostered this sort of attitude.  The coach has it in bucketloads.  They are intense, tough, enjoy the hard parts of the game and take pride in them.

I think Leeds are poorly coached and a bit soft.

I think this is something that Hodgson has really had to battle with since he joined Hull. Radford's Hull were mentally weak in a way I've rarely seen in professional sport. I lost count of the times I saw their heads drop and they started feeling sorry for themselves. It's something that Hodgson is working hard to address. It's so frustrating because when things are going well we are more than a match for anyone. But we don't deal well with adversity.

[Chrispmartha]

7 minutes ago, MZH said:

I think this is something that Hodgson has really had to battle with since he joined Hull. Radford's Hull were mentally weak in a way I've rarely seen in professional sport. I lost count of the times I saw their heads drop and they started feeling sorry for themselves. It's something that Hodgson is working hard to address. It's so frustrating because when things are going well we are more than a match for anyone. But we don't deal well with adversity.

Hodgson will turn out into a great coach for Hull FC IMO

[rhinos78]

34 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

I don't think Leeds are a tough team.  I think they (and Hull to be fair) are a bit soft.

The recent Out Of Your League podcast with Morgan Knowles had a quote from him is his younger days when he said: "I had to be good at the mental side.  I've never been the most talented but will do the things others won't - when games are tough I never look for an easy way out.  Other people will break before I do".

I think when you watch Saints they have fostered this sort of attitude.  The coach has it in bucketloads.  They are intense, tough, enjoy the hard parts of the game and take pride in them.

I think Leeds are poorly coached and a bit soft.

I would have to agree, think we lack somthing mentally.

The semi last year, whilst it was going to be a tough task regardless, we were beat before we took the field imo

[FearTheVee]

10 minutes ago, rhinos78 said:

I would have to agree, think we lack somthing mentally.

The semi last year, whilst it was going to be a tough task regardless, we were beat before we took the field imo

It can change very quickly but it needs the right coach and some leaders in the team.

I like Agar - he seems a good bloke - but I just don’t think he’s an elite coach.

I hope Hodgson is because Hull are such an underperforming club for its size. I would love Hull to be one of the top teams for a sustained period as I think it would be great for the game (sorry Rovers fans!). I’m not yet convinced though.

Leeds should have appointed Ian Watson in my opinion - maybe not the man to return them to the very top but I think he is the right sort of coach from a drains up / culture point of view and would move them on a stage or two.