Saints domination - boring?

[jacksy]

I thought we would hold our own in 1997.

I was very very wrong.

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

10 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It's looking like they will walk both competitions again 

I enjoy watching them to an extent but they are just too dominant over all other teams.

For me it's bad for the game....I have no answers how to fix it by the way

 

3 confused faces for this so far. 

To clarify for those people and others I'll keep it simple.....

'I find one team winning everything dull' 

if it still seems confusing I can't help you any further

 

 

 

 

[Magic Superbeetle]

42 minutes ago, jacksy said:

Saints are a very good team among dross.

Fair play to them though because you can only beat whats in front of you.

They look like world beaters but i doubt very much they would beat the NRL champs if we ever get that match on again.

Held our own against Roosters at the start of 2020, and with a couple of bounces of the ball things might have been different. 
 

we had put everything into that game though and our league form at the time was dodgy (to the point people were calling Woolf out 6 weeks into his tenure). That being said, as others have pointed out - we have had another 2 years of training to Woolfs standards and I wouldn’t bet against us in a one off game. I hope Woolf stays and gets a shot at a WCC

[jacksy]

30 minutes ago, Magic Superbeetle said:

Held our own against Roosters at the start of 2020, and with a couple of bounces of the ball things might have been different. 
 

we had put everything into that game though and our league form at the time was dodgy (to the point people were calling Woolf out 6 weeks into his tenure). That being said, as others have pointed out - we have had another 2 years of training to Woolfs standards and I wouldn’t bet against us in a one off game. I hope Woolf stays and gets a shot at a WCC

Don't get me wrong, i would be cheering Saints on.

I just think you guys would get well beat.

 

 

[Curly perm]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

3 confused faces for this so far. 

To clarify for those people and others I'll keep it simple.....

'I find one team winning everything dull' 

if it still seems confusing I can't help you any further

 

 

 

 

It’d be boring and dull if they just bought up all the best players like a Man City but they lost Fages and Coote from their spine, replacing with academy players, and are still looking extremely strong this year (although still very early). It’s impressive, not boring. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Curly perm said:

It’d be boring and dull if they just bought up all the best players like a Man City but they lost Fages and Coote from their spine, replacing with academy players, and are still looking extremely strong this year (although still very early). It’s impressive, not boring. 

The way they have built it is not boring - I agree. 

But that is not what I've said 

I said it makes their games boring to watch and the season too predictable 

I hope the situation of them dominating so much ends soon by some means 

 

 

 

[RayCee]

5 hours ago, jacksy said:

Saints are a very good team among dross.

Fair play to them though because you can only beat whats in front of you.

They look like world beaters but i doubt very much they would beat the NRL champs if we ever get that match on again.

Er, you have to beat all the clubs in the NRL too….apparently. Even if you don’t play them. Otherwise you’re not dominating anything. 

[RayCee]

15 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It's looking like they will walk both competitions again…..

For me it's bad for the game....I have no answers how to fix it by the way

 

For me a team succeeding and winning because they are well run is something I admire. It’s not easy to do. 
 

What does bore me is a 12 team comp going for many months with loop fixtures to pad it out.

[Fevrover]

If it isn't Saints dominating it would only be another team like Wigan and Leeds in past years.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Just took a quick look at the stats for SL - Saints have won the LLS and GF 17 times. Leeds, Bradford and Wigan have each won them around half as often, and none of them show even the remotest signs of winning this year or next. Other clubs have won the LLS once. By the end of 23, Saints are likely (if they can be bothered to win the LLS) to have 21 titles to their name. Given how far they are ahead, and their trajectory, there is no end in sight even beyond that. It will be interesting to revive this thread in a couple of years, to see whether more people are sick of it by then. 

[Hughsehhh]

14 hours ago, DavidM said:

I’m interested in that view . Of course it’s all hypothetical but you think Saints are better than Roosters , Sharks , Sea Eagles , Eels and Souths ?

Of course hypothetical, but yes, I think they'd be in that mix. They're operating at a level so far above the rest currently in SL, genuine competition would only improve them further. Look how good they are defensively currently, NRL levels

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 hours ago, Fevrover said:

If it isn't Saints dominating it would only be another team like Wigan and Leeds in past years.

Wigan dominated over 25 years ago. 

 

48 minutes ago, Hughsehhh said:

Of course hypothetical, but yes, I think they'd be in that mix. They're operating at a level so far above the rest currently in SL, genuine competition would only improve them further. Look how good they are defensively currently, NRL levels

Maybe, but isn’t that a different point entirely from is their never ending dominance boring? Unless you agree it’s so uncompetitive the only useful comparison is with the NRL I suppose. Making them Bayern/PSG and the Champions League. Ironically, despite decades of success, they lack the pulling power of Leeds and Wigan and so can’t get any NRL team to play them.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

58 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Just took a quick look at the stats for SL - Saints have won the LLS and GF 17 times. Leeds, Bradford and Wigan have each won them around half as often, and none of them show even the remotest signs of winning this year or next. Other clubs have won the LLS once. By the end of 23, Saints are likely (if they can be bothered to win the LLS) to have 21 titles to their name. Given how far they are ahead, and their trajectory, there is no end in sight even beyond that. It will be interesting to revive this thread in a couple of years, to see whether more people are sick of it by then. 

We go to the GF and CC final every year.....often we find a reason to cheer one team over another for the day 

I'll be cheering extra loud this year for any team to break the hold Saints have....hopefully a team like KR who haven't won it

 

[FearTheVee]

3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Ironically, despite decades of success, they lack the pulling power of Leeds and Wigan and so can’t get any NRL team to play them.

 What claptrap.

Bless you mate.  Don’t worry, it will end and sooner than you seem to think.

[Josef K]

I find it far from boring and hope it carries on a while longer. Saints are heading for a pasting tomorrow and their second defeat of the season. 

[Saint Toppy]

16 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

penrith panthers  or melborne storm- if st helens came up against these 2 there would be 2 definitions of "dominant team" and one of something else

Saints wanted to play Penrith but they chickened out. Last time they played the most dominant team in the NRL (Roosters) a few years ago it was a pretty close game with Saints dominant for long periods and just an individual piece of brilliance from Luke Keary that won it for them.

[Exiled Wiganer]

25 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

 What claptrap.

Bless you mate.  Don’t worry, it will end and sooner than you seem to think.

If I may say, mate, you have a slightly odd patronising manner. I get that you draw a lot of your self worth from following Saints - good on you. You don’t need to project onto others, though, just get your full replica kit on and re-watch all your triumphs and you’ll feel fine.

I don’t worry in the slightest - I think it’s a shame that the winners are and will be a foregone conclusion for the foreseeable future, and I suppose that holds us back as a game. It’s still a privilege and a pleasure to watch the greatest game, even at the lower levels that everyone else plays them. Oh, and we can come back to this when Penrith again choose to play a preseason friendly in 2023 instead of coming over here. 

[Saint Toppy]

19 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I find it far from boring and hope it carries on a while longer. Saints are heading for a pasting tomorrow and their second defeat of the season. 

If Cas can't get a 30-40 point win against the team Saints are putting out tomorrow then they have no hope. Saints are without Makinson, Hopoate, Hurrell, Percival, Grace, Lomax, Dodd, Walmsley, Roby, Lees, Mata'utia, Batchelor, Sironen, Knowles & Paasi 

I'm actually looking forward to watching this game even though they're likely to get a hammering. Will get a good glimpse into the future of the club. A couple of youngsters in particular i'm hoping take their chance, Taylor Pemberton who is likely to be Lussick's understudy next year when Roby retires, Forward Lewis Baxter who had a stellar junior career before being out for a year with a serious injury, and scrum half Ellis Archer who could push for a regular 1st team spot with Dodd's season ending injury.

[Dunbar]

17 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

am not sure konrad hurrell and will hopoate (for eg)would ever get chance to to see the panthers or storm try line in a month of sundays of games never mind "dominate"

I'm just checking.  Is the Konrad Hurrell and Will Hopoate you mention here the same Konrad Hurrell and Will Hopoate that have scored 98 NRL tries between them and played opposite James Tedesco and Latrell Mitchell when Tonga beat Australia or a different Konrad Hurrell and Will Hopoate that couldn't score against an NRL team?

[Davo5]

8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I'm just checking.  Is the Konrad Hurrell and Will Hopoate you mention here the same Konrad Hurrell and Will Hopoate that have scored 98 NRL tries between them and played opposite James Tedesco and Latrell Mitchell when Tonga beat Australia or a different Konrad Hurrell and Will Hopoate that couldn't score against an NRL team?

The same 2 players who were deemed surplus to requirements at 2 poorly performing NRL teams ?

[Dave T]

I think this is a good example of a slightly negative outlook as standard in RL and our insecurities leading us to always be looking for perfection, a world full of rainbows and unicorns and the like. 

I don't mind a comp where Empires can be built and teams become dominant. I sometimes think comps where teams go from top to bottom or bottom to top overnight with the help of ott rules a little shallow, but I do understand the beuty of everyone having hope. 

I've no issue with Saints being dominant and them being favourites for everything. That gives everyone else something to aim for. 

I also don't think we need to be to harsh on the other clubs, this is sport, things don't always work. Leeds were tipped for good things this year by many, but sport can be unpredictable. 

IMHO there is more than enough to enjoy across the leagues. In SL I am interested to see if anyone can topple Saints in a one-off, which is what it takes, and the stories at the likes of Leeds, Wire, Hull KR, Catalans, Toulouse etc are fascinating. I'm also enjoying seeing an improving Hudds and what they can do under Watson. 

I think there is plenty to enjoy, we should be more open to doing so. 

[Dunbar]

9 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

The same 2 players who were deemed surplus to requirements at 2 poorly performing NRL teams ?

So you are agreeing with jonny that Hurrell and Hopoate "would ever get chance to to see the panthers or storm try line in a month of sundays"?

Despite the fact that they have both had successful NRL careers and both represented Tonga the first time a tier 2 nation has ever beaten the Kangaroos (a game that Hopoate scored in), they are incapable of soring against the Panthers and the Storm?

Look, I think that both the Storm and the Panthers are a better team than St Helens but some of this hyperbole is silly.

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

So you are agreeing with jonny that Hurrell and Hopoate "would ever get chance to to see the panthers or storm try line in a month of sundays"?

Despite the fact that they have both had successful NRL careers and both represented Tonga the first time a tier 2 nation has ever beaten the Kangaroos (a game that Hopoate scored in), they are incapable of soring against the Panthers and the Storm?

Look, I think that both the Storm and the Panthers are a better team than St Helens but some of this hyperbole is silly.

I’m saying they couldn’t get a gig at struggling NRL teams and IMO Saints whilst dominating a Superleague devoid of any quality challengers would be a bottom half NRL team.

As I’ve already posted on this thread,it’s not boring having a dominant team,it’s the simple fact that all the other so called big clubs are in such disarray and unable to mount anything other than a token challenge that’s the real turn off.

[Josef K]

2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

If Cas can't get a 30-40 point win against the team Saints are putting out tomorrow then they have no hope. Saints are without Makinson, Hopoate, Hurrell, Percival, Grace, Lomax, Dodd, Walmsley, Roby, Lees, Mata'utia, Batchelor, Sironen, Knowles & Paasi 

I'm actually looking forward to watching this game even though they're likely to get a hammering. Will get a good glimpse into the future of the club. A couple of youngsters in particular i'm hoping take their chance, Taylor Pemberton who is likely to be Lussick's understudy next year when Roby retires, Forward Lewis Baxter who had a stellar junior career before being out for a year with a serious injury, and scrum half Ellis Archer who could push for a regular 1st team spot with Dodd's season ending injury.

Cas had the handicap start before the squads were announced, but now saints have gone from a +12 start to +16 which i still think isn’t enough. They’re 4-1 to beat Cas.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think this is a good example of a slightly negative outlook as standard in RL and our insecurities leading us to always be looking for perfection, a world full of rainbows and unicorns and the like. 

I don't mind a comp where Empires can be built and teams become dominant. I sometimes think comps where teams go from top to bottom or bottom to top overnight with the help of ott rules a little shallow, but I do understand the beuty of everyone having hope. 

I've no issue with Saints being dominant and them being favourites for everything. That gives everyone else something to aim for. 

I also don't think we need to be to harsh on the other clubs, this is sport, things don't always work. Leeds were tipped for good things this year by many, but sport can be unpredictable. 

IMHO there is more than enough to enjoy across the leagues. In SL I am interested to see if anyone can topple Saints in a one-off, which is what it takes, and the stories at the likes of Leeds, Wire, Hull KR, Catalans, Toulouse etc are fascinating. I'm also enjoying seeing an improving Hudds and what they can do under Watson. 

I think there is plenty to enjoy, we should be more open to doing so. 

I get that we follow a fascinating game, I am simply intrigued as to the point at which total domination and pretty much foregone conclusions for decades becomes boring. My view won’t change anything, but I am interested in why, say, Wigan’s domination over a shorter period should have been viewed as Bad for the Game, whereas Saints’ domination over a far longer period passes pretty much without comment. Indeed, this is the only thread I can remember on here which even touches on the subject. As I set out above, I believe that, by 2024 Wigan might be in a position to challenge, but even that might not happen. If 4 in a row is fine, is 5, is 6, is 10? 

I don’t of course expect any Saints fan to see this state of affairs as anything other than fantastic. Indeed, they are now so far ahead they can field reserves when they feel like it (I wonder how fair that is for the competition - god forbid the 2 points gifted to Cas will be the difference in the relegation race at the end of the year...), which is indicative of their appraisal of the opposition.

There seems very few of us who are “concerned” about never ending dominance this year, but I think this will be worth pinning for years to come.