Hows ticket sales going for CCF

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I think if we downsize from Wembley or move out of London its a real sign of giving up on growing the competition and the game, appealing to a new customer base and actually putting some effort in.

I think there would be a stronger case for doing this if we had a guaranteed big international in London each year. I think the best we can hope for is one every other year.

But we do need to maintain a presence in London. 

I am disappointed that they have never tried Magic down there, but I suspect now wouldn't be the time....

[WN83]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

I think if we downsize from Wembley or move out of London its a real sign of giving up on growing the competition and the game, appealing to a new customer base and actually putting some effort in.

In fairness to move it, we could not avoid downsizing on Wembley. Moving it out of London is interesting really. Does it being in London add a great deal to it? I'm not sure it does. It's traditional to have it at Wembley and therefore in London but a trip to London isn't the rare day out for many that it used to be. If you're going down on a coach for the day, as many do, it may as well be in London, Newcastle, Cardiff or wherever, you're not seeing any of the City anyway. Hard to quantify what exactly we get out of it being In London, that we would not get from Cardiff, Newcastle etc. I'd never put it on the doorstep by moving it to Manchester, Liverpool etc, as I do feel it needs to have a day out/weekend away feel to it but I'm not sure it has to be London anymore. 

[WN83]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I think there would be a stronger case for doing this if we had a guaranteed big international in London each year. I think the best we can hope for is one every other year.

But we do need to maintain a presence in London. 

I am disappointed that they have never tried Magic down there, but I suspect now wouldn't be the time....

Internationals in London are an absolute must. People down South do not give a damn about Wigan or Huddersfield but they'd support anything in an England shirt. 

If only the Aussies could be bothered with International Rugby League. 

 

[Damien]

24 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Who says our target is 75k? I would argue that the target at the moment it 60,000 so there are numerous 60k stadiums around the country that fit the bill

I agree we should return to Wembley but only if we actually take it seriously (hopefully IMG will help). But we haven't even got a date for next year's final pencilled in yet to sell post Saturday.

Downsizing will only see your 60k target become 45k. Its a slippery slope. We've gone to 60k this year and haven't even sold out a brand, new state of the art venue that everyone was looking forward to going to a for an England match.

[Toby Chopra]

13 minutes ago, WN83 said:

We do have to ignore the 90k capacity of Wembley, it wasn't a number we got before it was rebuilt and it's very much a pipe dream nowadays. The worry we have is even the old 75,000 crowds look well gone and next year is pretty terrifying if we do not get two well supported clubs in the final.

I don't know how long we are tied in to Wembley but I hope it isn't long. I've been firmly in the move the final to Cardiff camp for a long time now. It is in most ways the ideal venue IMO- Slap bang in the middle of a great city, in a City/Country that loves Rugby (even if it's the wrong code), a big university population on it's doorstep and once in the City, whether that be for the day or the weekend, it is such a great day in comparison to Wembley. I went to Wembley recently for the Tyson Fury fight and it just feels a hassle getting to and from the area and with all due respect to Wembley, the area is pretty dire. It's been regenerated to a point but with rubbish chain bars/restaurants that are packed to the seams. 

 

Ultimately though we could play the final anywhere and unless there is more effort put in to marketing it and tempting people to attend, we'll constantly be crossing our fingers a couple of well supported clubs make the final. 

I think your last para gets to the nub of it. 

I agree Cardiff does have some attractions as a city, but unless you actually put the effort in to make the event one people actually want to attend, then it won't make much difference. 

It's still a trek from the north, while we'd be giving up on the 25 mln strong south east market. Students certainly won't save the day, unless you discount it to the point of it not being worth it. 

If we want repeat business though, it has to be the same venue year in year out, and I suppose Millennium Stadium might be cheaper than Wembley. 

But we sever a cenury of history in the process. 

[Toby Chopra]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm disappointed that they have never tried Magic down there, but I suspect now wouldn't be the time....

I'd absolutely kill to have Magic in London - or even a decent Superleague doubleheader.

But you're right, it would flop until we've done some work on reinvigorating rugby league's profile among the wider sporting public, especially in the south east. 

One for IMG's medium term list. 

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Downsizing will only see your 60k target become 45k. Its a slippery slope. We've gone to 60k this year and haven't even sold out a brand, new state of the art venue that everyone was looking forward to going to a for an England match.

I actually agree. I was being the Punch to @Dave T's Judy. He was on fire. Hopefully he's ###### off and actually done some work for a bit  

[WN83]

8 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I think your last para gets to the nub of it. 

I agree Cardiff does have some attractions as a city, but unless you actually put the effort in to make the event one people actually want to attend, then it won't make much difference. 

It's still a trek from the north, while we'd be giving up on the 25 mln strong south east market. Students certainly won't save the day, unless you discount it to the point of it not being worth it. 

If we want repeat business though, it has to be the same venue year in year out, and I suppose Millennium Stadium might be cheaper than Wembley. 

But we sever a cenury of history in the process. 

I've said earlier I genuinely think the strategy nowadays is to pray two well supported clubs make the final. There seems to be no effort whatsoever to push the event or to even make it an event in the first place. We do love to bash the RFL at every opportunity but I'd love somebody to come out, front up and communicate with the fans of the game exactly what they are doing to try and arrest the slide in attendances. Unfortunately sitting on your hands praying two big clubs make the final or just sticking extra games on won't cut it. 

[Jughead]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think there would be a stronger case for doing this if we had a guaranteed big international in London each year. I think the best we can hope for is one every other year.

But we do need to maintain a presence in London. 

I am disappointed that they have never tried Magic down there, but I suspect now wouldn't be the time....

I’d argue one event/big game in a calendar year in the capital is not enough. The key is ultimately international rugby league and we see very good crowds in London as a result but I think one event isn’t enough. Two, in our current state, should be the minimum annually, thought that probably requires Australia and New Zealand. 

[Jughead]

22 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd absolutely kill to have Magic in London - or even a decent Superleague doubleheader.

But you're right, it would flop until we've done some work on reinvigorating rugby league's profile among the wider sporting public, especially in the south east. 

One for IMG's medium term list. 

I think presently Magic Weekend would be killed by moving to London. People don’t travel for cup finals, they’re almost certainly not going to travel for the third instalment of the regular season of Wigan v Warrington at West Ham. 

[Live after death]

Well as a neutral for this years final, i may not even watch it on TV as i have no interest in the CC anymore unless my team is in the final. Unfortunately i now plenty of fans who are the dame. Its just not a prestige anymore except for the 2 finalists, it's now at the level as the Regal/JPS trophy was for the last 4-5 years of thats existence.

seeding hasn’t helped as it was always exiting to get a nice away draw to lower league for a different away day.

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I’d argue one event/big game in a calendar year in the capital is not enough. The key is ultimately international rugby league and we see very good crowds in London as a result but I think one event isn’t enough. Two, in our current state, should be the minimum annually, thought that probably requires Australia and New Zealand. 

I agree. I think there's a strong argument that the more events then the more you keep people engaged and in the RL loop so to speak and it becomes much easier to cross sell and build up a new audience.

[Toby Chopra]

19 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

In that case, London´s success cannot be left in the hands of the current owner of Broncos. 

Broncos have never been the most important bit of promoting rugby league in the south east. A helping hand at best. Even in their peak years, they only attracted a fraction of the people in the southeast who have an interest in league.

Internationals and engaging broadcast/social media coverage of the existing game is what we need to improve the game's profile down here. 

Maybe a London Superleague club could be rebuilt on the back of that work, but that window's probably closed now in my view. 

[Jughead]

6 minutes ago, Live after death said:

Well as a neutral for this years final, i may not even watch it on TV as i have no interest in the CC anymore unless my team is in the final. Unfortunately i now plenty of fans who are the dame. Its just not a prestige anymore except for the 2 finalists, it's now at the level as the Regal/JPS trophy was for the last 4-5 years of thats existence.

seeding hasn’t helped as it was always exiting to get a nice away draw to lower league for a different away day.

Arguably, seeding has helped. We’re looking at the sixth different winner in as  many years on Saturday and ten of the current Super League sides have played in one of the last nine finals. 

 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Broncos have never been the most important bit of promoting rugby league in the south east. A helping hand at best. Even in their peak years, they only attracted a fraction of the people in the southeast who have an interest in league.

Internationals and engaging broadcast/social media coverage of the existing game is what we need to improve the game's profile down here. 

Maybe a London Superleague club could be rebuilt on the back of that work, but that window's probably closed now in my view. 

Indeed - quite often, when they did actually try, it was London trying to recruit fans to our games on the back of Challenge Cup finals and internationals (including 'A' internationals and Federation Shield etc).

There were (and are) people who came to RL because of the Broncos but that's a much smaller number than those whose connection is those big events.

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I’d argue one event/big game in a calendar year in the capital is not enough. The key is ultimately international rugby league and we see very good crowds in London as a result but I think one event isn’t enough. Two, in our current state, should be the minimum annually, thought that probably requires Australia and New Zealand. 

I don't disagree with that ambition, and there are signs that the RFL has recognised that with trying to stage England games at big grounds in London in addition to the Cup Final. 

But, one of the things we come back to time and again, is not enough ****** internationals! 

[JonM]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

If our target is 75k in London where would you hire? 

I think a point that is often overlooked in these kind of discussions is that Wembley is actually available to hire. It's part of their business model, there's a price list, a standard contract, and the RFL (in the past at least) got some kind of discount. That is not the case for most large football grounds. Big premiership football clubs with annual revenues over the £500 million mark aren't necessarily interested in the small amount of additional revenue that comes from renting out their stadium, or they may find it more lucrative to work with concert promoters etc. Both Spurs and Arsenal have limits in their planning permission on the number of non-football events they can hold per year. 

 

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Live after death said:

Well as a neutral for this years final, i may not even watch it on TV as i have no interest in the CC anymore unless my team is in the final. Unfortunately i now plenty of fans who are the dame. Its just not a prestige anymore except for the 2 finalists, it's now at the level as the Regal/JPS trophy was for the last 4-5 years of thats existence.

seeding hasn’t helped as it was always exiting to get a nice away draw to lower league for a different away day.

As someone who saw my team win there recently, I can say it was far better than when we went in the 1990s and got pumped by Wigan. 

Sometimes we go through phases and grow out of things, I used to love superhero movies, I don't want h any now. 

The RFL needs to work hard to draw in fans to replace those like you and who you refer to. 

[daz39]

4 hours ago, Damien said:

I think it should be noted also that many fans of the finalists don't just buy tickets from the clubs. Many buy from the RFL too. The clubs may have only sold 15k or so but the true figure will be much higher.

correct, I know quite a few of our fans bought cheaper side on tickets as we only had 2 allocated blocks in those areas as they prefer to watch the game from that vantage point. 

[daz39]

16 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Why can't fans go to both games??

They can, unfortunately I doubt the majority can afford both hence the football team getting most of the floaters. 

[daz39]

Apparently we've now sold out 3 taxis and there's even talk of booking a minibus

[MattSantos]

On 18/05/2022 at 16:52, David Shepherd said:

I could get into serious bother in there. My wife has imposed a strict limit of 2 pints of Neck Oil

This is my pub sorted.

I will not be supping under a 2 Neck Oil limitation. I will be free. I will be alone. For a bit.  

I like Neck Oil.

[voteronniegibbs]

.

Edited July 31, 2023 by voteronniegibbs
Spelling innit

[meast]

23 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Why can't fans go to both games??

They can, there's nothing stopping anyone, but not everyone in and around Huddersfield supports both teams.

Plus it's a lot of money to go to both!

[meast]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree that the RFL can do far better here on this, but we do have some rather unfair expectations on how many neutrals should attend this match. 

It is interesting that you give a free pass to the finalists for not selling tickets but not the RFL. 

If the two finalists sell only 15k between them (I do expect it will be much higher) then the empty seats will be because of them. It is what it is, but I'm mot sure why there is the expectation that the RFL just goes and finds an extra 15k neutrals to fill the seats that the finalists couldn't. 

For all the talk of event crowds, there are more events than ever for people to spend their money on, and that also goes for RL fan neutrals. Particularly this year when we have a huge World Cup to spend our money on instead. 

Crowds fluctuate depending on finalists, there does always seem to be an unrealistic demand on the RFL that they should just fill them with neutrals - it was the same with the Catalans finals. 

It was easier to sell the challenge cup final to the neutral fans 25+ years ago.

But times have changed, back then it was THE major event in the RL calendar, followed by test matches then the other cups, but generally the cup final was a day out or a weekend in London that not many people from working class Northern mill and pit towns got usually, fans and players of clubs all over the country, professional and amateur, gathered at Wembley for the sports' big day, it was an easy sell.

Now, there is the SL final, the championship final, magic weekend, challenge cup final, trips to the South of France, not mention the world cup too, there's also lots of other things for people to spend leisure time and money on.

It's not quite as easy attracting neutrals to go to London anymore.