McNamara blasts Huddersfield after IMG discussions

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

I notice you didnt @Harry Stottlein there... i think he'll be very hurt by that remark 

Shocked, stunned and devastated!

[Toby Chopra]

5 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

IMG will propose the following without doubt.

 

* Franchising 

PROBABLY

* London team

UNLIKELY - THEY KNOW NOT WORTH IT WITHOUT MELBOURNE SIZE MILLIONS TO BACK IT 

* Toulouse franchise (Dragons nailed on)

ONLY IF AMONG BEST 12 BIDS

* Less matches (Loop ones gone)

ONLY IF REPLACED BY ANOTHER COMPETITION. NO REDUCTION OVERALL. THEY WANT INVENTORY

* Min of 5 internationals a year (2/3 outside of the heartlands)

LIKELY 

* League expansion via franchising based on strict criteria

YES

Paul

The bigger question though is why they might do these things.

Everything they will propose is aimed at rebranding and then promoting British rugby league to a wider audience. But until we know which audience they are targeting, and what they think is realistic branding, the competition outcome will be unclear. 

For instance, an optimal competition being targeted at the audience that watch 6 nations rugby union a few times a year might look quite different to a competition being aimed at northern football fans that live adjacent to most of the clubs. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

The target audience should be focused strongly on what i call sports fans that can watch a combination of sports some for instance NFL/Baseball/Basketball + i would (Especially in the South) target these and  non league football fans who mainly have no preconceptions about Union v League.

 

My non League Football club has a typical cross section of these types there is around 12 of us that stick together behind the goal includes.

 

* Huddersfield Giants fan (Londoner) but went to uni there 

* Hull FC fan (Londoner) 

* 3 who over the last few years have been to the 2 Rugby League Internationals at the Olympic Stadium in London + NFL and Baseball 

Only a couple follow premiership football (Crystal Palace) most would have made a point of watching the State of Origin.

Super League is always discussed at most matches recent games on SKY etc along with other sports rarely is the premiership talked about most hate it due to the excessive money involved they would rather go to watch us play away at Sheppey United.

 

P 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by ATLANTISMAN

[Big Picture]

26 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

The target audience should be focused strongly on what i call sports fans that can watch a combination of sports some for instance NFL/Baseball/Basketball + i would (Especially in the South) target these and  non league football fans who mainly have no preconceptions about Union v League.

My non League Football club has a typical cross section of these types there is around 12 of us that stick together behind the goal includes.

* Huddersfield Giants fan (Londoner) but went to uni there 

* Hull FC fan (Londoner) 

* 3 who over the last few years have been to the 2 Rugby League Internationals at the Olympic Stadium in London + NFL and Baseball 

Only a couple follow premiership football (Crystal Palace) most would have made a point of watching the State of Origin.

Super League is always discussed at most matches recent games on SKY etc along with other sports rarely is the premiership talked about most hate it due to the excessive money involved they would rather go to watch us play away at Sheppey United.

P

The minority such as those 5 friends of yours excepted, how do you expect IMG to get that target audience to care about a league based in smallish, unfashionable, economically disadvantaged towns up North in the sort of numbers which would be needed to make a difference?

Edited July 27, 2022 by Big Picture

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not going to disagree Dav, and especially when those borders are other RL towns, tell me where is the dividing line that separates Haven from Workington loyalties Distington perhaps?

There really isn’t one,Town we’re traditionally the first & biggest semi pro team in West Cumbria and as such attracted plenty of support from Copeland in the past,there is also more people moving from one area to the other these days so there really isn’t a dividing line although they are still Jam eaters !

[gingerjon]

37 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

The target audience should be focused strongly on what i call sports fans that can watch a combination of sports some for instance NFL/Baseball/Basketball + i would (Especially in the South) target these and  non league football fans who mainly have no preconceptions about Union v League.

 

My non League Football club has a typical cross section of these types there is around 12 of us that stick together behind the goal includes.

 

* Huddersfield Giants fan (Londoner) but went to uni there 

* Hull FC fan (Londoner) 

* 3 who over the last few years have been to the 2 Rugby League Internationals at the Olympic Stadium in London + NFL and Baseball 

Only a couple follow premiership football (Crystal Palace) most would have made a point of watching the State of Origin.

Super League is always discussed at most matches recent games on SKY etc along with other sports rarely is the premiership talked about most hate it due to the excessive money involved they would rather go to watch us play away at Sheppey United.

 

P 

 

 

You think IMG should devise a strategy based on a dozen blokes who stand behind the goal at Beckenham?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

although they are still Jam eaters !

Funny, they say the same about you.

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

The target audience should be focused strongly on what i call sports fans that can watch a combination of sports some for instance NFL/Baseball/Basketball + i would (Especially in the South) target these and  non league football fans who mainly have no preconceptions about Union v League.

 

My non League Football club has a typical cross section of these types there is around 12 of us that stick together behind the goal includes.

 

* Huddersfield Giants fan (Londoner) but went to uni there 

* Hull FC fan (Londoner) 

* 3 who over the last few years have been to the 2 Rugby League Internationals at the Olympic Stadium in London + NFL and Baseball 

Only a couple follow premiership football (Crystal Palace) most would have made a point of watching the State of Origin.

Super League is always discussed at most matches recent games on SKY etc along with other sports rarely is the premiership talked about most hate it due to the excessive money involved they would rather go to watch us play away at Sheppey United.

 

P 

 

 

It sounds like your mates already follow rugby league is some shape or form, so, welcome as that is, I'm struggling to see how they are the target market. 

If we said we were going to target more generally "football fans that don't like the premiership" to start watching Superleague on Sky more regularly - because it's played by relatably normal blokes who put their bodies on the line each week for a moderate wage - then I can at least see the brand pitch. 

But personally, I'd say taking as our starting point another sport's grievance culture and trying to piggyback that isn't where we should be going! 

Surely we want the millions of English people who DO watch the Premier league to give league a look, not stamp them as suspect from the off. 

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

IMG will propose the following without doubt.

 

* Franchising 

* London team

* Toulouse franchise (Dragons nailed on)

* Less matches (Loop ones gone)

* Min of 5 internationals a year (2/3 outside of the heartlands)

* League expansion via franchising based on strict criteria

Paul

Hi Paul, with your posting history and me being an avid reader it is noticable that you have obviously got some confidants in high places, you begin this post with a very assured and assertive WITHOUT DOUBT regarding what IMG will propose. May I be so bold to suggest that the listing you have put forward is more of a personal wishlist for you than anything you could possibly validate at this moment in time.

[Guest]

The future of rugby league can't be appealing to old lads watching non-league football. I doubt Sky will increase their deal if the next structure includes the current 12 plus a few small town clubs who happen to be spending enough money at the right moment.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Paul, with your posting history and me being an avid reader it is noticable that you have obviously got some confidants in high places, you begin this post with a very assured and assertive WITHOUT DOUBT regarding what IMG will propose. May I be so bold to suggest that the listing you have put forward is more of a personal wishlist for you than anything you could possibly validate at this moment in time.

I think you're right Harry.

I will always say what I know to be true, or at least believe to be true, either from first or direct second hand knowledge, as such and make that fact quite clear.

I always preface opinions on IMG and what they will do/reccomend with "I suspect" or similar. I would expect you are correct that this is what Paul is doing here. 

[Tommygilf]

Interesting threads that whilst starting with the new England jersey, speaks to much of the game's problems IMG will face.

[Dave T]

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Interesting threads that whilst starting with the new England jersey, speaks to much of the game's problems IMG will face.

I'm not sure what point he is making in his 2nd tweet, almost unreadable. 

The George Cross kits have been very unpopular. I don't mind them, and I really liked the 2017 WC kit. 

As for not paying anyone £200k, how does he expect us to be better than what we are if we limit earning potential. 

Some poor comments tbh, wonder if alcohol was involved, reads like it to me. 

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure what point he is making in his 2nd tweet, almost unreadable. 

The George Cross kits have been very unpopular. I don't mind them, and I really liked the 2017 WC kit. 

As for not paying anyone £200k, how does he expect us to be better than what we are if we limit earning potential. 

Some poor comments tbh, wonder if alcohol was involved, reads like it to me. 

I think he's saying the RL is an old boys club, and acts very much like an old boys club.

[Toby Chopra]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure what point he is making in his 2nd tweet, almost unreadable. 

The George Cross kits have been very unpopular. I don't mind them, and I really liked the 2017 WC kit. 

As for not paying anyone £200k, how does he expect us to be better than what we are if we limit earning potential. 

Some poor comments tbh, wonder if alcohol was involved, reads like it to me. 

I think Greg's been struggling to find a purpose since he lost his seat. Those tweets all came across a bit ranty man in pub. I mean, what exactly is a "grassroots sport" in which no-one should earn more than 200k? All sports (hopefully) have grassroots, and all (hopefully) have a successful and rewarding professional tier. Another one gone down the grievance/conspiracy hole I fear. We've got enough of that already.  

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Toby Chopra

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think he's saying the RL is an old boys club, and acts very much like an old boys club.

Pay less, George Cross England shirts. Maybe that's why his offers are ignored

I'm sure he always denied claims of an old boys club when he was a politician. 

[gingerjon]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think he's saying the RL is an old boys club, and acts very much like an old boys club.

He's not wrong on that part.

The rest?

There's some personal animosity there.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Is it safe to come back on this thread and have a rational conversation about the way forward?

 

[Oxford]

20 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Everything they will propose is aimed at rebranding and then promoting British rugby league to a wider audience

If this is the case: How would a ten team SL do that? In what way would franchising achieve that? and to be honest almost everything discussed on here?

The discussion is about  internal preferences of the essentialy captive audience doesn't reveal or highlight how or what RL needs to move on. They are mostly prejudicial self interest models that have almost nothing to add to this and are largely highly suspect for those reasons. That's why we have a silly debate about what clubs bring to SL instead of how SL can improve.

Although they might not feel this way fans from clubs who will profit from 2x10 will favour this and fans from other clubs will find it a threat. But the questions "Does it increase income, or social & geographical reach ?" don't come into it because that's not what it's purpose is, so why does it feature in the discussion at all?

Edited July 28, 2022 by Oxford

[RP London]

14 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Is it safe to come back on this thread and have a rational conversation about the way forward?

 

no **** off!

[Toby Chopra]

2 minutes ago, Oxford said:

But the questions "Does it increase income, or social & geographical reach ?" don't come into it because that's not what it's purpose is, so why does it feature in the discussion at all?

Those questions don't tend to come into our discussions on here because, on the whole, we have our own individual/club interests at stake. So we focus on things like numbers of clubs in each division as an end in itself.

But I'm confident that IMG are asking exactly those questions and any proposals they come up with will be determined totally by what effect they will have on the wider growth and revenue of the game. Because that's how they will make their money.

Hard as it is, I think we just have to wait, and ignore a lot of the noise that's being put out about what they're going to say.

My only concerns is that the clubs will undermine the proposals from the off, even while professing agreement, as we've got form for that. Hopefully IMG will be prepared for that scenario too. 

 

[bar red]

What happens if the club chairman don't agree with INGs proposals? Genuine question.

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

But I'm confident that IMG are asking exactly those questions

That was the point Toby, the discussions may be interfered with by all the nonsense though I agree IMG will be looking elsewhere for the real answers to all this.

[Oxford]

4 minutes ago, bar red said:

What happens if the club chairman don't agree with INGs proposals? Genuine question.

We'd have more years of stupidity and self interest to look forward to. Genuine answer.

I think it's IMG by the way ING are someone else!

Edited July 28, 2022 by Oxford

[Toby Chopra]

7 minutes ago, bar red said:

What happens if the club chairman don't agree with INGs proposals? Genuine question.

Well, if enough of them try to stop it, they will succeed, because the clubs have an inordinate amount of control over the governing body compare to any other major sport.

And if that happens, I suppose IMG would just walk away before they'd incurred too much cost. 

A bit of an embarrassment for them, but a huge reputational blow for us.

Imagine the damage if one of the world's major media/marketing organisations said we weren't fit to work with? No-one else will ever risk it. I'm hoping such a damaging scenario is enough to keep us in line.