37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

28 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

"I see a man who only drank it because he loves HKR and Neil Hudgell is his friend and he definitely didn't let IMGs involvement and their future plans influence his decision to invest in HKR even though he said it because..."

“He drank it because his kids have grown up, he’s finished paying their school fees, and has time to do stuff for fun at the weekends now he’s semi-retired. Oh, and his favourite colour is violet”

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

19 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You mean like Dereck Beaumont ? 

And Leigh ? 

I've got no issue with Derek or Leigh. I respect the business he has built, when most don't even try. I like the fact he cares about our sport, his community, and has both the resources energy to try and make stuff happen. Then we get to find out if there's a scalable market that adds to the sport eh. Doesn't mean there will be, but far better we do that and try than not trying at all.

However, the Leopard thing is absolutely hilarious, his own flaws have exacerbated it, and I reserve the right to royally mock that as much as I want    

[Oxford]

Given the finance figures it's quite clear the only Category A club is Wakey.

If the Total debt is not included in the criteria with the category being decided  on finance situations how is that achieving progress and development?

[The Ghost of 99]

29 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Given the finance figures it's quite clear the only Category A club is Wakey.

If the Total debt is not included in the criteria with the category being decided  on finance situations how is that achieving progress and development?

This is far too simplistic.

Debt isn't a problem; inability to service debt is a problem.

Meanwhile debt taken on for investment purposes (e.g. to fund new stadia (Leeds)) is different in its very nature to debt taken on to prop up long-term operating losses (e.g. Wigan/Hudds).

[Oxford]

24 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

This is far too simplistic.

Debt isn't a problem; inability to service debt is a problem.

Meanwhile debt taken on for investment purposes (e.g. to fund new stadia (Leeds)) is different in its very nature to debt taken on to prop up long-term operating losses (e.g. Wigan/Hudds).

Er there is nothing simplistic about debt or its sum total and you charaterised two very different sorts.

The likelihood is that as going concerns they're stretched, and like it or not, Wakey win hands down.

Even if the some debts are or were justifiable that doesn't make them less of a debt.

It also doesn't make them less liable to be called in.

I think you imagined that I was saying that it should be the only criteria but all I said was that it should one of them. I think a fairly crucial and high level one, but just one.

And it would put the cat among the pigeons in terms of what certain clubs expect as categorisation.

There is also the question of IMG. If they don't find the size of debts a problem it makes their idea of a more sound financial footing Totally dubious and questionable to the nth degree!

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Er there is nothing simplistic about debt or its sum total and you charaterised two very different sorts.

The likelihood is that as going concerns they're stretched, and like it or not, Wakey win hands down.

Even if the some debts are or were justifiable that doesn't make them less of a debt.

It also doesn't make them less liable to be called in.

I think you imagined that I was saying that it should be the only criteria but all I said was that it should one of them. I think a fairly crucial and high level one, but just one.

And it would put the cat among the pigeons in terms of what certain clubs expect as categorisation.

There is also the question of IMG. If they don't find the size of debts a problem it makes their idea of a more sound financial footing Totally dubious and questionable to the nth degree!

 

If you think IMG, or anyone else close to the game for that matter, didn't already know most clubs were up sh*t creek and desperately looking for a paddle, then I've a bridge to sell you

That's why they're here, and why we need to develop a new strategy. All these numbers continue to tell us is that, even discounting for a pandemic, the previous strategy wasn't working!!

 

[The Ghost of 99]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Er there is nothing simplistic about debt or its sum total and you charaterised two very different sorts.

The likelihood is that as going concerns they're stretched, and like it or not, Wakey win hands down.

Even if the some debts are or were justifiable that doesn't make them less of a debt.

It also doesn't make them less liable to be called in.

 

No, it obviously does make them less liable to be "called in". If you're servicing your debt, that isn't an issue.

Furthermore if your debt is with a bank or lender and it is secured over the assets of the business and you are servicing your debt then it specifically is not going to be "called in" because you haven't broken the terms of the loan.

If your debt is with the owner, and they die or lose interest, then you are at the whim of whoever inherits that debt. It may not be an issue but you come back to the reliance on old rich men problem.

IMG are going to do a bit more than look at the total credits on a Balance Sheet without looking at the debits. Some clubs are technically insolvent, like Wigan and Huddersfield, and I would expect that would, and should, count against them because the level of debt and the lack of assets flows all the way through to the company's ability to continue as a going concern.

Edited December 14, 2022 by The Ghost of 99

[Oxford]

36 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

IMG are going to do a bit more than look at the total credits on a Balance Sheet without looking at the debits. Some clubs are technically insolvent, like Wigan and Huddersfield, and I would expect that would, and should, count against them because the level of debt and the lack of assets flows all the way through to the company's ability to continue as a going concern.

It's nice to know when we agree on something.

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, Oxford said:

Given the finance figures it's quite clear the only Category A club is Wakey.

If the Total debt is not included in the criteria with the category being decided  on finance situations how is that achieving progress and development?

I agree, but Leigh have now joined that happy bunch known as SL, the last I heard Leigh were firmly financially in the black, so that makes two club's as the only one's who should receive Cat A's, so considering these are the two club's favourite to go down but would be exempt from being relegated being 'A' rated then the fun can start, bring it on.

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I agree, but Leigh have now joined that happy bunch known as SL, the last I heard Leigh were firmly financially in the black, so that makes two club's as the only one's who should receive Cat A's, so considering these are the two club's favourite to go down but would be exempt from being relegated being 'A' rated then the fun can start, bring it on.

If Leigh are in the black so they should!

 

[DI Keith Fowler]

My local corner shop which turned a modest profit is more valuable than Sainsburys who lost £250 million last year. Fight me. 

[The Future is League]

Clubs told, Don't be middle lane hoggers

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20754483/rugby-league-online-digital-media/

[Adelaide Tiger]

On 14/12/2022 at 02:12, steve oates said:

No you don't get it. Once again IMG a rather large and wealthy and at times successful organisation has been allowed by the clubs to "see what they can do" but there will be no payment without results. In turn IMG have left one of their crew to fiddle with a possible new structure which as everybody pointed out, we tried before and it failed. Now he's gone until February..........

Euro basketball simply isn't Rugby League....... their success is not relevant to our chances of success......

But you are of course welcome to set out where we will be in 10 years time and how we will get there...??????

I have seen your responses with HKB on the last page or so.

So can you set out where will be in 10 years time and how we will get there?

[Man of Kent]

5 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Clubs told, Don't be middle lane hoggers

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/20754483/rugby-league-online-digital-media/

Saw that too. BS story. Nothing to do with RL. 

[Dave T]

58 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Saw that too. BS story. Nothing to do with RL. 

Sort of. It's pretty rubbish positioning of the article, but what do we expect from RL journos. 

But it is useful to hear what one of our partners are saying. And it's hard to disagree with the point. The positive is that more and more we are seeing our clubs trying slightly different things - often to the disgust of some of the more traditional existing fans, which I'm here for. 

Remember Whizzee Rascal last year? Unfortunately everything else Wire did was dire last year, and I think to an extent they bottled a lot of stuff as it would jar with fans when you are playing poorly and being mischievous on social media. But we need to find a position that works irrespective of results. 

[Toby Chopra]

58 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Saw that too. BS story. Nothing to do with RL. 

It's completely to do with RL. 

7League is running English rugby league's digital strategy for the next 12 years. This report is 7League saying what they think such output will look like in the next few years. 

The main question I have is will IMG be running the clubs digital platforms for them, or just providing guidance. I hope it's the former, as the clubs haven't got a scooby how to do it and it'll work better if it's done in unison anyway. 

[Man of Kent]

2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

It's completely to do with RL. 

7League is running English rugby league's digital strategy for the next 12 years. This report is 7League saying what they think such output will look like in the next few years. 

The main question I have is will IMG be running the clubs digital platforms for them, or just providing guidance. I hope it's the former, as the clubs haven't got a scooby how to do it and it'll work better if it's done in unison anyway. 

Completely to do with RL and nothing to do with RL.

Full marks for creativity but the story could be applied to any sport. 

[Man of Kent]

Mick Gledhill (usual caveat applies) says TV viewing figures, social media numbers, web hits, crowds, turnover/finance all expected to be part of the criteria when IMG announces them in February. Provisional grading to be announced in July.

Rumours are at least one Championship club will replace a Super League club.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Mick Gledhill (usual caveat applies) says TV viewing figures, social media numbers, web hits, crowds, turnover/finance all expected to be part of the criteria when IMG announces them in February. Provisional grading to be announced in July.

Rumours are at least one Championship club will replace a Super League club.

Hopefully Toulouse is that club.

[The 4 of Us]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Mick Gledhill (usual caveat applies) says TV viewing figures, social media numbers, web hits, crowds, turnover/finance all expected to be part of the criteria when IMG announces them in February. Provisional grading to be announced in July.

Rumours are at least one Championship club will replace a Super League club.

My understanding is that any assessed criteria for the start of next season will be indicative and as such would not he acted on until the end of the 2023 when a reassessment will take place ahead of 2024.

As such there are not going to be any other changes other than the promotion of Leigh at this point.

How could they let any team prepare for SL23 and tell them/Championship side a week before the start? 

[The Phantom Horseman]

8 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

My understanding is that any assessed criteria for the start of next season will be indicative and as such would not he acted on until the end of the 2023 when a reassessment will take place ahead of 2024.

As such there are not going to be any other changes other than the promotion of Leigh at this point.

How could they let any team prepare for SL23 and tell them/Championship side a week before the start? 

They're not, and nobody, including in this thread, has suggested otherwise.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Rumours are at least one Championship club will replace a Super League club.

That's not even possible for next season (as a result of Grading Criteria).

[The Phantom Horseman]

It's worth pointing out too that all the discussion in that Full 80 minutes podcast is based on the premise briefly touched on by Mick Gledhill that a lot of the aspects of the current ROI model will transfer to the IMG model. That seemed to be based on one comment to him from the new chair of RFL Commercial, but there's not much meat put on the bones of what could have been one throwaway comment.

It's also worth pointing out that when Gledhill talks about rumours or hearsay a heavy dose of salt is advised.

[The Phantom Horseman]

So for instance, when Gledhill says in that podcast "the big rumour is, a championship club will be replacing a SL club", there are lots of questions that he should be asked eg

1) Who told you that rumour?
2) How can it have any substance when nobody knows what the actual criteria are going to be yet let alone the grading?

[Harry Stottle]

13 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

So for instance, when Gledhill says in that podcast "the big rumour is, a championship club will be replacing a SL club", there are lots of questions that he should be asked eg

1) Who told you that rumour?
2) How can it have any substance when nobody knows what the actual criteria are going to be yet let alone the grading?

If IMG have an actual favourite in the Championship that they want to be part of SL, then the criteria will be set at a level that their favoured team can accomplish, but then the fun starts if a (some) SL clubs will be equal or even better suited to SL on present standings, grading has to be adjudged on where the clubs are at the time that the criteria is issued, completed and returned NOT some pie in the sky potential which may never be realised.

Will potential stand up in a court of law, for I can see that is where this could go by any club who would be overlooked in favour of a club not as deserving on actuallities in favour of supposed potential.