RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[pahars]

Forgive me Hector 

This tournament has got it ###### about face. International Rugby League is not mature enough to have the equivalent of football’s Brazil v Liechtenstein priced as it has been.  The England prices were fine though we didn’t help by smashing the ‘close opening game’. 
 

The group games should have been priced so it’s about taking their Nan and your kids and building a must see event. The Quarter Finals onwards are priced exactly how they should be it’s just that the regular audience is skint and jaded and the event crowd now aren’t buying in. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, pahars said:

it’s just that the regular audience is skint and jaded and the event crowd now aren’t buying in. 

How big is the 'event crowd' in Huddersfield, Wigan, Hull and Warrington? My guess would be not very. Instead, as you say, they are the regular RL audience and they're skint, plus they've been saturated with games already. 

[pahars]

6 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

How big is the 'event crowd' in Huddersfield, Wigan, Hull and Warrington? My guess would be not very. Instead, as you say, they are the regular RL audience and they're skint, plus they've been saturated with games already. 

My original unedited post said ‘quarter finals onward’ pal. I’m a bit baffled what your point is regarding the QF’s, as the regular RL audience having more money and a positive attitude  plus a smidgeon of an event crowd surely validates what I was saying? 

[meast]

3 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

There seems a contradiction in the organisers' strategy for me, in that they appear to have aimed the pricing at an 'event' crowd who are happy to pay those ticket prices, but they've then located the vast majority of the games in the northern heartlands where interest is already saturated and they're unlikely to attract the 'event' crowd that they're pitching at. I think they either needed to locate games in other major cities to try and attract that 'event' crowd, or pitch the pricing appropriately for their existing market, which is well known to be based in some of the more deprived areas of the country.

I think this is the big one.

Talking to some very nice Wigan fans tonight before the game and we all agreed that the organisers have almost categorised in a way that would appeal to football and event fans, having expensive seats near the pitch and in the middle may appeal to football fans and likewise, boxing, darts fans etc like to feel close to the action but rugby fans tend to watch from further back enabling them to see the bigger picture.

It does appear that the organisers have completely misread how RL fans work and what they're prepared to pay for what they deem to the the best seats and can't or won't back down in fear of losing face.

The fact that every game is available on free TV means there's no fear of missing out factor, therefore the games aren't seen as events and won't attract events type crowds.

[Jim from Oz]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The highest ever attendance for a Wales games is 17,000 from 2000.

It didn't stop it looking like an absolute disaster in a 70,000 odd stadium.

How positive an experience do you think it is to go and watch an uncompetitive match at a stadium that is 75% empty? 

IIRC The 1995 rugby league World Cup semi-final between Wales and England at Old Trafford drew 30,000

[meast]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

That doesn’t look like it would be massively wrong relative to how it looks for the Giants and the attendances they announce?

 

5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Very busy around me out wide in the upper tier behind the sticks tbf and the main stand looks fairly busy on the whole 

 

5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Would like to see a picture from elsewhere but upper tier behind the sticks ‘feels’ full

In terms of late arrivals, don’t underestimate the impact of a half 7 kick off. Albeit we were here about 45 mins before kick off having left Leigh at half 5

I also thought it looked busy, especially at the North end with both double deckers well populated.

Of course, I'm used to seeing usually 4 or 5,000 ish at the stadium but there did seem to be lot more, I thought it might have sneaked over 10,000.

 

 

[OriginalMrC]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The highest ever attendance for a Wales games is 17,000 from 2000.

It didn't stop it looking like an absolute disaster in a 70,000 odd stadium.

How positive an experience do you think it is to go and watch an uncompetitive match at a stadium that is 75% empty? 

Whatever you think about how a stadium looks is completely irrelevant. Total number of tickets sold and total revenue is all that matters. The matches you mention sold lots of tickets. You may feel it looks like a disaster but the games in smaller stadiums that sold less tickets are more of an issue. Especially since lots of those games are in heartlands areas. IMG I'm sure will find all this data very interesting. 

[Man of Kent]

6 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Personally I think the fact its all been on the BBC is a positive that outweighs any negatives.

I’ve had more people talk to me about RL (and positively) than ever before, we shouldn’t underestimate how much good the BBC coverage has done.

The moaning about prices/crowds is pretty much within the RL echo chamber.

This, this and this.

[Spidey]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

Im not sure what point you are making, but I'll make it clear. 

£40 is too expensive for Cat C tickets, there are two bands higher. Three if you count Premium, top price is £85.

And, the region has been saturated, this will be the 12th WC game within a handful of miles, the 4th at this ground. 

And, the website has made it difficult to purchase. 

And, they don't offer pensioner concessions. 

And, they haven't offered multi-buy. 

And, they don't offer family tickets. 

And they haven't made any effort with the staging of the event. 

FWIW I think £50 / £30 / £20 should have been the three price bands for non England games (maybe with a £15 for some standing areas) in the group stages   

England games could have been a bit higher. It needed to be simple, not so many different prices within one stand

Semi Final & Final. More in line with grand final / challenge cup final prices

If they couldn’t make money from that structure their costs were too much to begin with

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Personally I think the fact its all been on the BBC is a positive that outweighs any negatives.

I’ve had more people talk to me about RL (and positively) than ever before, we shouldn’t underestimate how much good the BBC coverage has done.

The moaning about prices/crowds is pretty much within the RL echo chamber.

The BBC have been really, really good at either turning negatives into positives (so much talk about the pride people have in playing for their heritage, even how busy the Lebanon coach must be given he also coaches international RU) or just riding over them and ignoring them.

We wouldn't get that with any other broadcaster because no other broadcaster operates the way they do with all-in coverage for competitions. Not even C4 with the Paralympics.

[Anita Bath]

RWC 2019

8 of 37 group games were won by margins of less than two converted tries

Averagewinning margin 28 points (4 converted tries)

 

3 of the 8 knockout game had those margins

average margin 17 points (less than 3 converted tries)

 

RLWC2022

2 of 24 group games had winning margins of less than 2 converted  tries

average winning margin 42 points (7 converted tries)

 

RLWC2017

3 of 21 group games winning agin less than 12 points

 

Average margin 32 points (over 5 converted tries)

[RL Tragic]

I am tired of some of the posts that seem to defend the tournaments attendances as a ok and that we in turn should be ok with that not a single sole on here wants to be at the point we are at  . However The facts of the matter are . 
 

1/ RL fans are watching games and thinking, The attendance doesn’t looks great .

2/ Non RL fans ,  I’ve sat and watched many games with RU fans over the last few weeks ,  and the P taking has been to a man immense , I’ve also sat with non sporting neutrals who watching games with me on TV and one of the big points is , Doesn’t it look empty. One even thought there were still covid restrictions! . No one , and I mean NO one  I have talked to has not commented on the poor attendance.
 

3/ The attendances have physically  been poor (9k average ) and have looked much much worse than that on TV due to a number of factor’s 

4/ This is a professional entertainment event , the size of the crowd and the atmosphere DO matter . Think wrestlemania with 6000 people there , no music and fans so silent you can hear big show scratch His ###### .

5/ This is not what we were PROMISED John Dutton and Co have failed by ANY measure . If we are still saying there are seats available for Tonga v Samoa in an RL town then our leaders shouldn’t be leading . 
 

6/ The pricing structure has been a Cluster funk the only evidence of if pricing is right or wrong is customer take up . Think Tescos chief pricing strategist getting it this wrong . And then blatantly lying about there errors . They would be out the door next day .

7/ The ticketing website is substandard. In this day and age platforms are available , quite readily to allow businesses to offer smooth transactional process . No excuses here .
 

 

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Spidey said:

FWIW I think £50 / £30 / £20 should have been the three price bands for non England games (maybe with a £15 for some standing areas) in the group stages   

England games could have been a bit higher. It needed to be simple, not so many different prices within one stand

Semi Final & Final. More in line with grand final / challenge cup final prices

If they couldn’t make money from that structure their costs were too much to begin with

I think maybe there was an argument for lower, but there are a few ways to do that. The Woemsn Euros had a bold pricing structure of £10-£50 for most games, only slightly higher for England and major games. 

In 2013 we had an offer of buy one get one half price for same grounds. So at Wire you'd pay £20 and then it made sense to only pay the £10 to get the 2nd ticket. That meant you paid around £15 per match for those. 

As per one of my previous posts, we haven't done anything that justified putting the prices up. We haven't gone to better grounds. We haven't put entertainment on. We haven't staged more competitive games. We haven't done anythibg other than put a higher price tag on. 

I made the point earlier in the thread that perception of value is important. People who can afford £25 aren't necessarily compelled to spend it on these events. I'm one at the moment. 

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

RWC 2019

8 of 37 group games were won by margins of less than two converted tries

Averagewinning margin 28 points (4 converted tries)

 

3 of the 8 knockout game had those margins

average margin 17 points (less than 3 converted tries)

 

RLWC2022

2 of 24 group games had winning margins of less than 2 converted  tries

average winning margin 42 points (7 converted tries)

 

RLWC2017

3 of 21 group games winning agin less than 12 points

 

Average margin 32 points (over 5 converted tries)

 

[Dave T]

27 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The BBC have been really, really good at either turning negatives into positives (so much talk about the pride people have in playing for their heritage, even how busy the Lebanon coach must be given he also coaches international RU) or just riding over them and ignoring them.

We wouldn't get that with any other broadcaster because no other broadcaster operates the way they do with all-in coverage for competitions. Not even C4 with the Paralympics.

I don't know whether it is a BBC thing, or joint with Fox, or even a partnership with RLWC, but the quality and range of pubdits has been excellent. The pitch side interviews have been great, speaking to the various players and coaches in their languages a highlight - Jenna has been great for example. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I don't know whether it is a BBC thing, or joint with Fox, or even a partnership with RLWC, but the quality and range of pubdits has been excellent. The pitch side interviews have been great, speaking to the various players and coaches in their languages a highlight - Jenna has been great for example. 

In other competitions, I'd say it was an organiser's thing because they often control the content and even what aspects of the game the commentators are to focus on - especially when the same commentary is going around the world. (Women's Euros being an exception: we got the BBC coverage which was obviously BBC-led and standard, but around the world, the English language commentary was a different team and presented in different ways).

I don't know enough about this to say but you are right. It's been very well done across all teams and in all aspects - ASIDE FROM THE VIDEO REF.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

This, this and this.

It doesn't have to be either or. 

BBC coverage is excellent, probably the highlight of the tournament. 

Crowds are disappointing, the most disappointing element of the tournament. 

[Dave T]

Just now, gingerjon said:

In other competitions, I'd say it was an organiser's thing because they often control the content and even what aspects of the game the commentators are to focus on - especially when the same commentary is going around the world. (Women's Euros being an exception: we got the BBC coverage which was obviously BBC-led and standard, but around the world, the English language commentary was a different team and presented in different ways).

I don't know enough about this to say but you are right. It's been very well done across all teams and in all aspects - ASIDE FROM THE VIDEO REF.

I believe that Vossy's commentary is going to Fox, and that makes me think that the BBC haven't just gone and brought a commentator from the other side of the world off their own back. 

Similarly, they have hired Sky people, albeit I expect freelancers. 

That's what makes me think its joined up, with who I don't know, but they deserve a pat on the back. 

[Tommygilf]

On the ticketing website, presumably either the RLWC have chosen this model, or paid (less) for it to be this way.

Ticketmaster have ran the boxing events I've been to (Millennium stadium and Wembley) where I was able to pick specific seats (not just blocks) out of 80-90 odd thousand available. Top tip, buy the 40 quid seats at the end of the row in the block immediately adjacent to the £60 ones! They definitely have the facilities for this.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

8 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

But the casual observer hasn’t got the same hang ups as us RL die hards, but i do appreciate we are the core ‘audience’

They really really do Chris

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

They really really do Chris

The casual observer really cares about the Australian squad numbering system and wants the five metre rule back?

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The casual observer really cares about the Australian squad numbering system and wants the five metre rule back?

I know for a fact they hate set restarts

[Chrispmartha]

17 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

They really really do Chris

No they really don’t.

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

No they really don’t.

I agree, they care little for many things that RL geeks are passionate about on a niche forum. Sure, there will be geeks from other sports who will think about similar things, but it's the mainstream we should worry about. 

And this is where I do worry. The blanket coverage on BBC is great, but what people are seeing with the men's comp hardly portrays a modern, vibrant sport that they'd want to be a part of. 

The wheelchair stuff the other day immediately made me want to be part of it. I bought tickets for the final the next day. 

Most mens games wouldn't inspire anyone to get off their backsides. Only the England games have had that feelgood factor. 

It's where I do think crowds are important, the BBC have been very supportive, as have the UK government - the risk here is that what we promised them hasn't materialised, and conversations will be more difficult next time. 

Thank God for the Women, PDRL, Wheelchair players and the England Team tbh. 

[Hopping Mad]

10 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Rugby League is only truly entertaining if it two competitive sides. A try in itself isn't that appealing if it is against poor defence.

It's like a boxing match. Two top fighters going toe to toe is brilliant. However, what fun would it be watching Anthony Joshua fight a journeyman with something like a 8-30 record?

Tend to agree.

An acquaintance who, like me, watches several sports, is fond of saying: "There is nothing better than a competitive rugby league game - and nothing worse than an uncompetitive one."