RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I wonder what’s happening with the rest of those blocks? Hopefully something… it’d be frustrating to see the best seats in the house empty due to not being on sale. 

They are on sale - but through the hospitality website

(or maybe when selecting premium / club seat - can’t quite remember)

Edited November 7, 2022 by Spidey

[RL Tragic]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Tonga v Samoa - 12.6k. It was good, but not much different to Aus v Scotland and actually lower than NZ v Ireland in Leeds for example. 

It's right that we try and improve competitiveness, but I'm not sure structure change is the right way to go. 

It is interesting that RL fans always criticise authorities for focusing on structure changes, but fans jump straight to that mindset too.

Agreed , For me the big issue has been oversaturation . Like we saw with Rochdale in 2013 , give different clubs and there respective councils one game to focus on . I know it’s not the best stadium but I bet Cas would have filled the stadium as I’m sure would Halifax and Derwent park , at least 1 game in France and Wales respectively . A commitment to free attendance for 20,000 school children and service personnel over the group games . 

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

I would really like to know what stipulations the Government funding came with, in terms of holding a specific proportion of matches in the north. Because, as you say, on the face of it, it's a confused strategy and there was no way they were going to achieve the desired numbers unless they spread the geographical footprint further

The whole idea was to demonstrate the success of Northern Powerhouse at turning things around in the North by staging a big event which had 80% of matches played there, before big crowds paying event prices like those we've seen charged here.  That clearly has not happened, they didn't get what they were promised.  What the implications of that will be remain to be seen.

[GUBRATS]

35 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

A fair few apparently.

https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2019/6/28/18715483/americans-world-cup-france-traveled-well-womens-soccer-community

Not getting into the minutiae of the argument , suffice to say I saw a lot more Football fans from Holland , Sweden,Portugal and Switzerland in and around Leigh and the LSV than fans from Lebanon,Cook Islands,Jamaica and indeed Ireland for the RL 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, RL Tragic said:

Agreed , For me the big issue has been oversaturation . Like we saw with Rochdale in 2013 , give different clubs and there respective councils one game to focus on . I know it’s not the best stadium but I bet Cas would have filled the stadium as I’m sure would Halifax and Derwent park , at least 1 game in France and Wales respectively . A commitment to free attendance for 20,000 school children and service personnel over the group games . 

Cas just isn’t a good enough stadium to showcase the sport on an international stage unfortunately, West Yorkshire has a lack of suitable stadiums 

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The problem IMG will face is that Sean McGuire was correct when he said that the fundamental reason behind the game's problems is that with the possible exception of Leeds the traditional clubs are all based in smallish, economically disadvantaged towns.  As this World Cup has shown, those towns are too small and too poor to give the game the sort of popularity and money it needs.  In addition there's no evidence that clubs in those towns can appeal to the broader public, so suggest that IMG will really struggle to boost the game's popularity and revenues.

I started reading the post before looking who had posted it , by the 3 rd line I thought ' Big Picture '

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes.

It should have increased them.

Like it appears to have done for the wheelchair tournament.

 

23 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

And it may well have done if they hadn’t have played so many games in the heartlands in the same stadiums 

I think this is important - terrestrial coverage can negatively impact your crowds, or you can try and capitalise on it being the best advertisement yiu can ever get for the sport. 

Considering at the start of the tournament we were told we were almost at the 2013 numbers (460k), it does appear that either the word 'almost' was doing a huge amount of heavy lifting, or we have actually sold very very small amounts during the actual tournament. 

I'm still absolutely bemused by that France game, which should have sold out in hours following the Samoa opener. 

I think it just shows how wrong we have some of the basics, scheduling, venues, prices. 

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The whole idea was to demonstrate the success of Northern Powerhouse at turning things around in the North by staging a big event which had 80% of matches played there, before big crowds paying event prices like those we've seen charged here.  That clearly has not happened, they didn't get what they were promised.  What the implications of that will be remain to be seen.

This Northern Powerhouse ' success ' you speak of ? , Can you be more precise with evidence of it actually happening ?

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The whole idea was to demonstrate the success of Northern Powerhouse at turning things around in the North by staging a big event which had 80% of matches played there, before big crowds paying event prices like those we've seen charged here.  That clearly has not happened, they didn't get what they were promised.  What the implications of that will be remain to be seen.

I mean you've just slipped in the price thing with no logic whatsoever (and are ignoring the fact they have now cut many prices). 

We may as well claim that there was a government requirement that 15% of the crowd had to wear Kappa apparel. 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

RL is pretty brutal though, not sure you can hide from that fact.

Well, if that`s the whole story, or even the dominant theme, we should just accept managed decline. Rugby League Football is clearly not suited to the modern world. And administrators, international and domestic, will need to adjust their expectations and finances accordingly.

Because "Roll up! Roll up! come and see a bunch of thick proles smash into each other" won`t have them queuing round the block in the 21st century.

It isn`t hiding from an obvious fact to say that casual viewers do not need to have their attention constantly drawn to that obvious fact. Experts should be there to inculcate the audience with less obvious facts. The new demographics we have to reach to be successful might be receptive to a slightly more sophisticated portrayal.

We`ve promoted RL as the last word in brutality for as long as I can remember and it manifestly hasn`t worked. Any reason to think it will in the future?

[WN83]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I mean you've just slipped in the price thing with no logic whatsoever (and are ignoring the fact they have now cut many prices). 

We may as well claim that there was a government requirement that 15% of the crowd had to wear Kappa apparel. 

I think it was Ellgren Shellsuits actually

[Gav Wilson]

12 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Experts should be there to inculcate the audience with less obvious facts...

You mean like Brian 'for our viewers at home' Noble...?

[RL Tragic]

44 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Cas just isn’t a good enough stadium to showcase the sport on an international stage unfortunately, West Yorkshire has a lack of suitable stadiums 

Fair point 

[DoubleD]

34 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Well, if that`s the whole story, or even the dominant theme, we should just accept managed decline. Rugby League Football is clearly not suited to the modern world. And administrators, international and domestic, will need to adjust their expectations and finances accordingly.

Because "Roll up! Roll up! come and see a bunch of thick proles smash into each other" won`t have them queuing round the block in the 21st century.

It isn`t hiding from an obvious fact to say that casual viewers do not need to have their attention constantly drawn to that obvious fact. Experts should be there to inculcate the audience with less obvious facts. The new demographics we have to reach to be successful might be receptive to a slightly more sophisticated portrayal.

We`ve promoted RL as the last word in brutality for as long as I can remember and it manifestly hasn`t worked. Any reason to think it will in the future?

Yet UFC has become extremely popular..............

[Maximus Decimus]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Broadly agree, but I dont think the saturation point can be discounted, I think that's a biggie. 

Whilst we still had plenty in the North, Rochdale and Halifax for example were real positives and have been replaced by more games in Wire, Saints, Leigh and Doncaster.

It is of course a problem. However, I suspect even if one of those games had been Widnes, Halifax or Rochdale it wouldn't have been great either.

[Abicus]

So what’s the latest numbers for this coming weekend?

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It is of course a problem. However, I suspect even if one of those games had been Widnes, Halifax or Rochdale it wouldn't have been great either.

Not at those prices no. 

For me pricing is the halo issue here. You can overcome many problems if you price things accordingly, but if you have poor scheduling and other elements, you won't overcome that price issue imo. 

[Just Browny]

58 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I mean you've just slipped in the price thing with no logic whatsoever (and are ignoring the fact they have now cut many prices). 

We may as well claim that there was a government requirement that 15% of the crowd had to wear Kappa apparel. 

Rishi Sunak is a stickler for pitch markings.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Not getting into the minutiae of the argument , suffice to say I saw a lot more Football fans from Holland , Sweden,Portugal and Switzerland in and around Leigh and the LSV than fans from Lebanon,Cook Islands,Jamaica and indeed Ireland for the RL 

You should never have to rely on away fans. You know that.

(A failure to tap into decently sized Lebanese and Jamaican populations in this country is another mark against this tournament’s organisation.)

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You should never have to rely on away fans. You know that.

(A failure to tap into decently sized Lebanese and Jamaican populations in this country is another mark against this tournament’s organisation.)

Both were there in their ' tens ' at the LSV ( the Lebanon people's front being very noisy ) but the Dutch and Swede's were there in thousands last summer 

It isn't comparable 

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

This Northern Powerhouse ' success ' you speak of ? , Can you be more precise with evidence of it actually happening ?

Of course I can't provide evidence of it happening.  The failure of this World Cup to hit its targets at these event ticket prices is evidence that Northern Powerhouse has failed to achieve its goal.

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I mean you've just slipped in the price thing with no logic whatsoever (and are ignoring the fact they have now cut many prices). 

We may as well claim that there was a government requirement that 15% of the crowd had to wear Kappa apparel. 

The logic about the prices is simple.  Northern crowds being able and willing to pay such event prices like their southern and Midlands counterparts = Northern Powerhouse has succeeded in turning things around in the North.  Northern crowds not being able and willing to pay such event prices like their southern and Midlands counterparts = Northern Powerhouse has failed to turn things around in the North.  Is that simple enough for you to understand?

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

 

The logic about the prices is simple.  Northern crowds being able and willing to pay such event prices like their southern and Midlands counterparts = Northern Powerhouse has succeeded in turning things around in the North.  Northern crowds not being able and willing to pay such event prices like their southern and Midlands counterparts = Northern Powerhouse has failed to turn things around in the North.  Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Absolutely superb stuff. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Of course I can't provide evidence of it happening.  

Because it hasn't happened 

[Big Picture]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Because it hasn't happened 

Of course it hasn't happened, which this tournament has demonstrated to the millions watching on TV.  We can be sure that the government will not be pleased.

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Both were there in their ' tens ' at the LSV ( the Lebanon people's front being very noisy ) but the Dutch and Swede's were there in thousands last summer 

It isn't comparable 

No, they're not. But we could and should be looking at 100s rather than 10s.

Incidentally, the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup had even higher average gates - and that was in Canada.

I checked out of curiosity earlier. It shows the importance of venue selection though because my memory was of bank after bank of empty seats - which is what you get when you have 10-20k crowds in 40-50k venues.