RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Londonbornirishbred said:

Sorry. You've had 5 years to prepare and save. Complaining about a lack of internationals and then not selling out England games is criminal. It's not about pricing, or "discounting being expected", its apathy.

Yup. 

[GUBRATS]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure that's fair. There has never been a World Cup so concentrated on such a small area selling to the same fans. That is the issue.

I've done 3 games so far , one each round , I'll be at Warrington next Sunday , and that'll be my lot , I know plenty others who've done double that , can't really justify the prices of the semi's or final , too busy workwise as well 

[GUBRATS]

This is the first time we've had a ' normal ' group stage albeit designed to get England to the final , but this is how we need to go , in the quarters we've got 6 strong teams for the first time , we need to hopefully get more next time , that is the challenge 

Edited October 30, 2022 by GUBRATS

[Guest]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

This is the first time we've had a ' normal ' group stage albeit designed to get England to the final , but this is how we need to go in the quarters we've got 6 strong teams for the first time , we need to hopefully get more next time , that is the challenge 

If England v Samoa was this weekend perceptions would be different. 

2013 had an australa v USA and England v France qf for comparison. 

Quality this time is much better. 

[Dave T]

37 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Not sure how people.can talk about success and feel when we haven't even had the business end yet. 

2013 was only special because of the semi final. Up to that point England were rubbish and limping along.

Not sure I would spend any profit on Scotland or Ireland personally. Wales and Serbia and Greece are more interesting. 

You've now resorted to just making things up. 

2013 started with 45k in Cardiff. I think this year's event in Newcastle was much better and can be classified a success. 

England's next two games were both sellouts, versus Fiji and Ireland at Hudds and Hull. So England's 3 games got 94k versus this year's 84k. This year is still very solid, but lower than 2013 attendance-wise. 

Other group highs saw 14k at Wire, 17. 5k at Avignon, 14k at Saints, 18k at Leeds, plus sellouts at Rochdale, Halifax, Perpignan, Leigh, as well as vibrant positive crowds at Workington, Bristol, Wrexham etc. 

The disappointing crowds were in the minority, at places like Neath, Limerick, Hull KR. But the vast majority of games at the stadium were very positive experiences. 

It is just absolutely wrong to try and claim that 2013 was all about that Semi final. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

This is the first time we've had a ' normal ' group stage albeit designed to get England to the final , but this is how we need to go in the quarters we've got 6 strong teams for the first time , we need to hopefully get more next time , that is the challenge 

I think that's right. 

There are two routes for us now. We can either work hard to develop more teams so we get fewer blowouts next time. Or we can take the easy option and restructure. 

I know which I'd prefer. 

[Tommygilf]

18 minutes ago, Londonbornirishbred said:

Sorry. You've had 5 years to prepare and save. Complaining about a lack of internationals and then not selling out England games is criminal. It's not about pricing, or "discounting being expected", its apathy.

It might have escaped your attention, but lots of people on here have been pinning their hopes for UK RL on this tournament because of the state of RL in this country. Attendances have been declining all over the place.

Likewise, it seems you don't understand that RL, even in the most heartland of heartland towns and cities, is competing with Union and Cricket for a distant 2nd place in terms of public interest.

To put it in perspective for you, this is like hosting a RL World Cup in NZ, and playing all but 6 of the 31 games in Auckland and Waikato (and charging prices way out of line with what the RL fanbases in those places are used to paying). Its not apathy, its basic economics.

The tournament organisers appear to have thought they could put on a mens tournament that has similar pricing to Cricket or Union equivalents (which have been hosted here in 2019 and 2017 respectively), in a fraction of the geographical spread, and appealing mainly to existing RL fans. Add in some daft scheduling, a poor website and a 1 year delay and you can start to see why your logic is flawed.

In any case, despite the above, more people attended NZ vs Ireland and Australia vs Fiji in Leeds than attended Australia vs France in Australia in 2017 (and I suspect more than watched the Kiwis in NZ a few times too), and more people watched Australia vs Scotland in Coventry than watched England vs Lebanon in the RL hotbed of Sydney (which hosted 2 games in the entire tournament?).

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think that's right. 

There are two routes for us now. We can either work hard to develop more teams so we get fewer blowouts next time. Or we can take the easy option and restructure. 

I know which I'd prefer. 

Agree , we have the right number now , I don't see us being able to make it more , a 5 week tournament is enough , this is RL , any longer and it'll drag 

No stadium should have more than 2 games and the pricing needs to be simpler ( guess what I'd do ? ) , Especially for the group games and the quarters , that and more community engagement as we saw in 2013 

[Coastal_Geordie]

29 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It might have escaped your attention, but lots of people on here have been pinning their hopes for UK RL on this tournament because of the state of RL in this country. Attendances have been declining all over the place.

Likewise, it seems you don't understand that RL, even in the most heartland of heartland towns and cities, is competing with Union and Cricket for a distant 2nd place in terms of public interest.

To put it in perspective for you, this is like hosting a RL World Cup in NZ, and playing all but 6 of the 31 games in Auckland and Waikato (and charging prices way out of line with what the RL fanbases in those places are used to paying). Its not apathy, its basic economics.

The tournament organisers appear to have thought they could put on a mens tournament that has similar pricing to Cricket or Union equivalents (which have been hosted here in 2019 and 2017 respectively), in a fraction of the geographical spread, and appealing mainly to existing RL fans. Add in some daft scheduling, a poor website and a 1 year delay and you can start to see why your logic is flawed.

In any case, despite the above, more people attended NZ vs Ireland and Australia vs Fiji in Leeds than attended Australia vs France in Australia in 2017 (and I suspect more than watched the Kiwis in NZ a few times too), and more people watched Australia vs Scotland in Coventry than watched England vs Lebanon in the RL hotbed of Sydney (which hosted 2 games in the entire tournament?).

Agree generally with your post - but the v Rugby Union WC pricing which was significantly higher than this tournament. l

[Griff]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Bingo. The voters of Cumbria are the reason why there are no internationals to be played in Cumbria. A vote is an action with consequences.

Probably why Cumbria is being abolished next year.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Coastal_Geordie said:

Agree generally with your post - but the v Rugby Union WC pricing which was significantly higher than this tournament. l

They haven't gone all the way yes, but they're not trying to be far off, which is a huge jump from regular RL

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Coastal_Geordie said:

Agree generally with your post - but the v Rugby Union WC pricing which was significantly higher than this tournament. l

 

Just now, Tommygilf said:

They haven't gone all the way yes, but they're not trying to be far off, which is a huge jump from regular RL

Interestingly, you can see the price list for the RUWC in France next time. 

They are selling tickets for some group games as low as €10 (£8.60).

20 of the group games have tickets starting at around £25 or less. 

RL isn't the dirt-cheap sport people make out it is. 

 

[OriginalMrC]

45 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It might have escaped your attention, but lots of people on here have been pinning their hopes for UK RL on this tournament because of the state of RL in this country. Attendances have been declining all over the place.

Likewise, it seems you don't understand that RL, even in the most heartland of heartland towns and cities, is competing with Union and Cricket for a distant 2nd place in terms of public interest.

To put it in perspective for you, this is like hosting a RL World Cup in NZ, and playing all but 6 of the 31 games in Auckland and Waikato (and charging prices way out of line with what the RL fanbases in those places are used to paying). Its not apathy, its basic economics.

The tournament organisers appear to have thought they could put on a mens tournament that has similar pricing to Cricket or Union equivalents (which have been hosted here in 2019 and 2017 respectively), in a fraction of the geographical spread, and appealing mainly to existing RL fans. Add in some daft scheduling, a poor website and a 1 year delay and you can start to see why your logic is flawed.

In any case, despite the above, more people attended NZ vs Ireland and Australia vs Fiji in Leeds than attended Australia vs France in Australia in 2017 (and I suspect more than watched the Kiwis in NZ a few times too), and more people watched Australia vs Scotland in Coventry than watched England vs Lebanon in the RL hotbed of Sydney (which hosted 2 games in the entire tournament?).

I agree with some of what you say but this world cup has been very reasonably priced in comparison to cricket and RU World cups 

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I agree with some of what you say but this world cup has been very reasonably priced in comparison to cricket and RU World cups 

RUWC 2023 - Tonga v Romania £8.50 to £45

RLWC 2021 - Lebanon v Jamaica £20 to £66

Edited October 30, 2022 by Dave T

[The Masked Poster]

3 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I agree with some of what you say but this world cup has been very reasonably priced in comparison to cricket and RU World cups 

Probably very true.

The problem you have now though is that there is a historical DNA style memory ingrained in most RL fans of "Ooowww Much?" 

Changing this mentality will not be easy as people still expect games for a tenner or Groupon deals at the last minute. 

It simply doesn't have the history of F1 or cricket where there are enough people willing to pay top dollar for their blue riband events. 

[Anita Bath]

11 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Probably very true.

The problem you have now though is that there is a historical DNA style memory ingrained in most RL fans of "Ooowww Much?" 

Changing this mentality will not be easy as people still expect games for a tenner or Groupon deals at the last minute. 

It simply doesn't have the history of F1 or cricket where there are enough people willing to pay top dollar for their blue riband events. 

England V NZ T20WC the gabba tomorrow ……$20

[RayCee]

I don't know if it's been covered but several of the most recent WCs had England and Australia in the same group to boost attendance. It did help ticket sales but was IMO a contrived scenario and meant England's winning percentage was unfairly affected. It also meant the two other teams in the group were effectively dead men walking. Totally unfair on them.

This time it was done differently and that has impacted on numbers, although one game in itself isn't a huge difference on its own. 

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Probably very true.

The problem you have now though is that there is a historical DNA style memory ingrained in most RL fans of "Ooowww Much?" 

Changing this mentality will not be easy as people still expect games for a tenner or Groupon deals at the last minute. 

It simply doesn't have the history of F1 or cricket where there are enough people willing to pay top dollar for their blue riband events. 

I paid €100 for 3 day ticket at the Austrian Grand Prix. Would I pay £110 for and England RL semi final? No chance. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I paid €100 for 3 day ticket at the Austrian Grand Prix. Would I pay £110 for and England RL semi final? No chance. 

3 days ? , So how many matches were on ? , Sorry races ? 

[Number 16]

Hopefully, if all goes to plan - France, USA, Southern Hemisphere - we won't have another embarrassment of a WC in England until 2037.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

3 days ? , So how many matches were on ? , Sorry races ? 

F1: Friday, practice and Qualifying. Saturday practice and sprint race. Sunday the Grand Prix.

There was also a full F2, F3 and Porsche Super Cup schedule, an airshow on Sunday along with the running of some classic F1 cars from across 5 decades, two fanzones and loads of free events, games and things of that ilk. 

Oh and it was set in one of the most visually stunning settings I've ever been to and a pint was 2 quid cheaper than Headingley.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Tommygilf

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

RUWC 2023 - Tonga v Romania £8.50 to £45

RLWC 2021 - Lebanon v Jamaica £20 to £66

That's a one off example to suit your case. Maybe the situation in France is different but Tlthe last RU world cup here was ridiculously expensive. I paid something like £150 for a quarter final game. Group games had some cheap tickets but on the whole was priced very high. 

[Jim from Oz]

6 hours ago, thehullram said:

Tonga v Samoa deserves a big crowd! 

The 2021(22) RLWC has not had a single sell-out as yet … SURELY this game will see out, it's gonna be HUUUGE !!!!

[Jim from Oz]

17 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

TOTAL FOR WEEK 1: 95,243 (average 11,905)

TOTAL FOR WEEK 2:  68,875 (average 8,609)

England v Greece: 18,760

Australia v Italy: 5,586 

Fiji v Scotland: 6,736 

TOTAL SO FAR FOR WEEK 3: 45,126 (average 11,281)

UPDATED TOTAL: 209,364 (average 10,468).

 

TARGETS:

2000 RLWC: 263,921

(8,514 per match)

 

2017 RLWC: 382,080

(13,646 per match)

 

2013 RLWC: 458,483

(16,374 per match)

 

2022 WOMEN’S EURO: 574,865

(18,544 per match)

 

ORIGINAL TARGET: 750,000

TOTAL FOR WEEK 1: 95,243 (average 11,905)

TOTAL FOR WEEK 2:  68,875 (average 8,609)

Jamaica v Lebanon: 5,006 
Tonga v Cook Islands: 8,342
Samoa vs France: 6,756 

TOTAL SO FAR FOR WEEK 3: 65,230 (average 9,318)

UPDATED TOTAL: 229,468 (average 9,976)

 

TARGETS:

2000 RLWC: 263,921

(8,514 per match)

 

2017 RLWC: 382,080

(13,646 per match)

 

2013 RLWC: 458,483

(16,374 per match)

 

2022 WOMEN’S EURO: 574,865

(18,544 per match)

 

ORIGINAL TARGET: 750,000

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, Londonbornirishbred said:

Correct. 

Apathy seems to hover over this comp. It's almost like all the fans who whinged about no internationals haven't bothered getting off their butts to attend internationals.

My wife and her Mates drove 800 kms to Auckland this weekend to watch the WRU quarter finals. 1600 KM round trip, 2 night hotel accommodation, God knows how much on petrol, wine, food and wine, but getting UK RL fans to travel to middlesborough or Newcastle?????

As I've said, Tonga v Samoa should be a full house. If it's not, then don't blame the organisers. Blame the public.

That seems to sum up the difference between the British public at large and the RL supporting subset.

As shown by the crowd for the opener in Newcastle the former have no issues with the ticket prices, they see those prices as normal or even on the low side for such events.  The RL supporting subset on the other hand sees the same prices as extortionate, and the many one-sided blowouts will only confirm them in their view.

Those traditional RL supporters see the latter as glorified training runs for the likes of England, Australia and New Zealand and to be honest that's an understandable view.  I've downloaded and saved a number of these matches into my extensive (900+ matches now) collection, but I have no interest in wasting hard disk space on big blowouts.  And for someone like me who can barely stomach the easy metres, BS "scrums" etc. which we see nowadays and make the game seem like touch football, and has a well-developed concept which would put that mess to shame if I can somehow find backers and make it happen, the presentation and other such details matter far more than the dross on field.

Blame the public?  You mean the same public which has suffered the battering of the economic disadvantages which followed the collapse of the industries which sustained their communities and by extension this game?  No not at all.

What blame there is for the mess which we see in this World Cup can only be laid at the organizers who grasped at the straw of the Northern Powerhouse funding but were unable to realize the vision which went with that funding.  Then again that vision could only have been realized if the Northern Powerhouse had succeeded in stopping the economic decline in the North and turning things around which it evidently hasn't for the simple reason that if it had those ticket prices wouldn't have been an issue at any of the matches.

In the words of Shakespeare, Aye there's the rub.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Big Picture