RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Chrispmartha]

Apologies for Daily Mail link and it being OT but thought it was slightly relevant 

looks like Cricket is having some major issues with crowds at the ODI - im not a huge cricket fan but it does seem to me that having so many formats is starting to bite them on the bum.

the seat counters would have a field day

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-11436801/amp/Englands-Moeen-Ali-slams-one-day-cricket-series-vs-Australia-ticket-sales-nosedive.html

Edited November 17, 2022 by Chrispmartha

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Apologies for Daily Mail link and it being OT but thought it was slightly relevant 

looks like Cricket is having some major issues with crowds at the ODI - im not a huge cricket fan but it does seem to me that having so many formats is starting to bite them on the bum.

the seat counters would have a field day

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-11436801/amp/Englands-Moeen-Ali-slams-one-day-cricket-series-vs-Australia-ticket-sales-nosedive.html

They've just hosted a T20 world cup to be fair. 

This would be like us playing Australia in a 3 match series over the next 3 weeks. Its overkill not intrinsic problems.

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

I don’t agree in counting them if the have been gifted . It gives organisers a great way of making up attendances wherever necessary 

The thing is with free tickets, while they arent paying to get in they will be spending money in the stadium adding to the bottom line.. potentially, as they havent spent to get in, they may actually spend more than the average fan or may by merchandise (if it were on sale). Gift tickets are still people in the ground and spending money so should, absolutely, always be counted IMHO

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

They've just hosted a T20 world cup to be fair. 

This would be like us playing Australia in a 3 match series over the next 3 weeks. Its overkill not intrinsic problems.

Is that the MCG? They do have some massive grounds. MCG is 90k or thereabouts.

Cricket also gets proper TV money in India, Eng and Aus. Add in sponsorship and more diversified income streams.

[Guest]

Sorry - Adelaide: Capacity: 53,500

Still pretty beefy.

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Is that the MCG? They do have some massive grounds. MCG is 90k or thereabouts.

Cricket also gets proper TV money in India, Eng and Aus. Add in sponsorship and more diversified income streams.

I believe that photo is from Adelaide (the MCG is much bigger)

Edit: I see you beat me too it.

As you say the attendances in cricket aren't as important because of the tv and sponsorship money coming in. Also in Australia you have so many oversized grounds because they are also AFL

Edited November 17, 2022 by Tommygilf

[Chrispmartha]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They've just hosted a T20 world cup to be fair. 

This would be like us playing Australia in a 3 match series over the next 3 weeks. Its overkill not intrinsic problems.

Kind of my point really leads into the overkill of hames at certain venues in this RLWC a bit

[Guest]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

I believe that photo is from Adelaide (the MCG is much bigger)

always amuses me that the smallest Aus cricket ground is larger than our biggest (lords) - excluding Hobart, Cairns etc.

[gingerjon]

18 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Apologies for Daily Mail link and it being OT but thought it was slightly relevant 

looks like Cricket is having some major issues with crowds at the ODI - im not a huge cricket fan but it does seem to me that having so many formats is starting to bite them on the bum.

the seat counters would have a field day

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-11436801/amp/Englands-Moeen-Ali-slams-one-day-cricket-series-vs-Australia-ticket-sales-nosedive.html

It’s a contractual obligation series between essentially England reserves and a not thrilling Aussie team.

The wonder is that anyone is there at all.

[pahars]

5 minutes ago, Leonard said:

always amuses me that the smallest Aus cricket ground is larger than our biggest (lords) - excluding Hobart, Cairns etc.

If a major UK football code played on oval pitches then it would be very different. 

[crashmon]

23 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Apologies for Daily Mail link and it being OT but thought it was slightly relevant 

looks like Cricket is having some major issues with crowds at the ODI - im not a huge cricket fan but it does seem to me that having so many formats is starting to bite them on the bum.

the seat counters would have a field day

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-11436801/amp/Englands-Moeen-Ali-slams-one-day-cricket-series-vs-Australia-ticket-sales-nosedive.html

This is just after the world cup. so its not a surprise.  The issue is they should be playing this in Jan not now

Cricket has the opposite problem to RL, it has too many international fixtures

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, pahars said:

If a major UK football code played on oval pitches then it would be very different. 

The West Indies still has grounds with far higher capacities than Trent Bridge (17.5k) - but I take the point.

UK grounds have historically been poor.

 

Name	City	Country (constituent island)	Capacity	First used	Tests	ODIs	T20Is	Notes
Kensington Oval	Bridgetown	Barbados	28,000	1930	53	35	17	[1]
Bourda	Georgetown	Guyana	25,000	1930	30	11	0	[3]
Queen's Park Oval	Port of Spain	Trinidad and Tobago	20,000	1930	61	68	6	[2]
National Cricket Stadium	St. George's	Grenada	20,000	2002	3	21	0	[7]
Arnos Vale Stadium	Kingstown	Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	18,000	1997	3	23	2	[6]
Sabina Park	Kingston	Jamaica	15,600	1930	50	37	3	[4]
Darren Sammy Cricket Ground	Gros Islet	Saint Lucia	15,000	2003	6	29	12	[8]
Providence Stadium	Providence	Guyana	15,000	2008	2	19	6	[10]
Antigua Recreation Ground	St. John's	Antigua and Barbuda	12,000	1981	22	11	0	[5]
Windsor Park	Roseau	Dominica	12,000	2011	5	4	2	[12]
Sir Vivian Richards Stadium	North Sound	Antigua and Barbuda	10,000	2009	6	17	4	[11]
Warner Park	Basseterre	Saint Kitts and Nevis	8,000	2006	3	17	5	[9]

[Dave T]

40 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

I don’t agree in counting them if the have been gifted . It gives organisers a great way of making up attendances wherever necessary 

Ultimately people can (and do) announce what they like. I can understand your issue 

[pahars]

11 minutes ago, Leonard said:

The West Indies still has grounds with far higher capacities than Trent Bridge (17.5k) - but I take the point.

UK grounds have historically been poor.

 

Name	City	Country (constituent island)	Capacity	First used	Tests	ODIs	T20Is	Notes
Kensington Oval	Bridgetown	Barbados	28,000	1930	53	35	17	[1]
Bourda	Georgetown	Guyana	25,000	1930	30	11	0	[3]
Queen's Park Oval	Port of Spain	Trinidad and Tobago	20,000	1930	61	68	6	[2]
National Cricket Stadium	St. George's	Grenada	20,000	2002	3	21	0	[7]
Arnos Vale Stadium	Kingstown	Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	18,000	1997	3	23	2	[6]
Sabina Park	Kingston	Jamaica	15,600	1930	50	37	3	[4]
Darren Sammy Cricket Ground	Gros Islet	Saint Lucia	15,000	2003	6	29	12	[8]
Providence Stadium	Providence	Guyana	15,000	2008	2	19	6	[10]
Antigua Recreation Ground	St. John's	Antigua and Barbuda	12,000	1981	22	11	0	[5]
Windsor Park	Roseau	Dominica	12,000	2011	5	4	2	[12]
Sir Vivian Richards Stadium	North Sound	Antigua and Barbuda	10,000	2009	6	17	4	[11]
Warner Park	Basseterre	Saint Kitts and Nevis	8,000	2006	3	17	5	[9]

Some of the stats are wrong - Barbados was with temporary seating for cricket World Cup. Bourda got condemned 15 years ago. 
 

Other stadiums were bribes from one the China’s for that nations government to recognise them. 
 

England does just fine for cricket grounds now. Twenty years ago was a major issue. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Just for clarity, are you alleging that the announced crowd figures / tickets sold for the opening day, quarter final and semi finals are incorrect and that organisers have deliberately published false figures?

Yes. Neither Wigan nor Emirates were accurate. I was there, and even if you doubt my judgement @Dave T has individually counted them by putting the 3,296 photographs he took on the day through his high-end, AI-powered, proprietary Attendee Quantity Evaluation Programme [TM]. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yes. Neither Wigan nor Emirates were accurate. I was there, and even if you doubt my judgement @Dave T has individually counted them by putting the 3,296 photographs he took on the day through his high-end, AI-powered, proprietary Attendee Quantity Evaluation Programme [TM]. 

Its the modern Bayeux Tapestry. 

Complete with ET drop goal to end.

[RL Tragic]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

The thing is with free tickets, while they arent paying to get in they will be spending money in the stadium adding to the bottom line.. potentially, as they havent spent to get in, they may actually spend more than the average fan or may by merchandise (if it were on sale). Gift tickets are still people in the ground and spending money so should, absolutely, always be counted IMHO

Good point, I’m more against counting freebie tickets that don’t then attend , Obviously it makes it harder to accurately count this 

[RP London]

14 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

Good point, I’m more against counting freebie tickets that don’t then attend , Obviously it makes it harder to accurately count this 

Oh absolutely, if they don't attend they shouldn't be counted.. I can understand counting those paid that don't turn up (though, as I've said, wouldn't myself) but any freebie not turning up is just fudging the numbers. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by RP London

[Dirkgee]

3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Apologies for Daily Mail link and it being OT but thought it was slightly relevant 

looks like Cricket is having some major issues with crowds at the ODI - im not a huge cricket fan but it does seem to me that having so many formats is starting to bite them on the bum.

the seat counters would have a field day

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-11436801/amp/Englands-Moeen-Ali-slams-one-day-cricket-series-vs-Australia-ticket-sales-nosedive.html

It's not great. But that meaningless match against England reserves on a Thursday night got 15,100, only 3,000 less than one of Australia's T20 World Cup matches on a Saturday night in the same stadium. 

https://www.austadiums.com/sport/crowds

[Mr Frisky]

3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Apologies for Daily Mail link and it being OT but thought it was slightly relevant 

looks like Cricket is having some major issues with crowds at the ODI - im not a huge cricket fan but it does seem to me that having so many formats is starting to bite them on the bum.

the seat counters would have a field day

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-11436801/amp/Englands-Moeen-Ali-slams-one-day-cricket-series-vs-Australia-ticket-sales-nosedive.html

There will be a cricket forum discussing these crowds and someone will show photos of the Oz v NZ RL semi final and say how full it was for a minority sport...

[redjonn]

11 hours ago, RP London said:

yes it has..

whilst not defending that we also need to look into why (justification).. i've lived most of my working life working on projects around processes and improvement, to do so (surely the aim, how do we make the next one better and the next) you must identify why. without that you cannot move forward. You also need to look at positives so that you can balance that. Therefore people look at the "justifications", there is nothing you can do now, its happened, we need to make sure we dont make the same mistakes again (like putting a double header on in warrington but hey ho).. cost of living crises (not much you can do about that), stadiums used and location (that MUST be looked at and fixed for the next one), Pricing structures, poor website experiences, marketing etc etc etc. 

You also MUST look at the profitability (not the turnover.. definitely not the turnover, turnover is vanity and affected by inflation etc). This can then justify some of the decisions. IF it is more profitable then the pricing can be justified on pure financial terms. However, then look at "is it good for the game" to have smaller crowds etc. Will the TV companies now come back, has this damaged the next world cup in terms of reputation etc. 

You cannot see one thing in isolation, you must also look around it so that we can see whether this World Cup has actually helped the game etc. 

personally I would agree it has been a disaster of crowds, I dont think it has enhanced the reputation and I worry about the next one over here.. However, if it turns a bigger profit that can be invested in the international game as a whole which can then help to build up towards the next one then maybe, just maybe things will turn out ok.. the one bonus of not having an international presences or a massive terrestrial TV presence is that when the next one comes around it may well be another blank canvas to work on with the population. 

Let's not forget that insuffient people are interested no matter if all the things said on here are done. Maybe a few more maybe if we have very low prices, but not many more.

[Guest]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/63656512

Not sure if already posted. Plenty to pick the bones out of.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/63656512

Not sure if already posted. Plenty to pick the bones out of.

Words fail me reading that. Useless.

[Guest]

Having been to 5 games and having watched a ton on TV - who are the 15 commercial partners?

Cazoo

Specsavers?

Then I have no idea. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Words fail me reading that. Useless.

I don't even understand the profit bit.

You made a profit - you just paid it in advance as a fee.

It's a very odd way to explain things.

Like saying if I get an advance on my salary then I am working for free. 

Why no just explain the reality of the situation?

Edited November 17, 2022 by Leonard