Best format for RL World Cup

[hw88]

Thought this had been done to death on another thread.

As I said before;-

3 groups of 4

Top 2 plus the 2 best 3rd teams qualify for the QF.

Fewer blow out scores.

Still room for 4 or 5 non-traditional RL playing countries to qualify.

More difficult to qualify so making it more of an achievement.

 

[GUBRATS]

We've played 23 games , 24 tomorrow night , and we'll have ended up with the best 8 RL countries 

So the structure will have worked , in essence the WC starts next Friday 

If you want to remove blow out scores , start with 8 , then you might only have 4/5/6 

[Midlands hobo]

Put England Oz and NZ in one group will make it alot harder for them and will open up the pathway to minor nations in turn generating interest at home.

[AB90]

I appreciate this may be an unpopular opinion but I would revert back to the ‘Super’ group which would bring back the ‘blockbuster’ group games and limit the blow outs.

Then the other 12 teams split normally with the 3 winners going through plus another who finishes with the most points.

Super Group: Australia, New Zealand, England, Tonga (all 4 teams go through to the quarters - play for seeding)

Group A: Samoa, Ireland, Scotland, Jamacia 

Group B: PNG, France, Cook Islands, Greece

Group: Fiji, Lebanon, Wales, Italy

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, AB90 said:

I appreciate this may be an unpopular opinion but I would revert back to the ‘Super’ group which would bring back the ‘blockbuster’ group games and limit the blow outs.

Then the other 12 teams split normally with the 3 winners going through plus another who finishes with the most points.

Super Group: Australia, New Zealand, England, Tonga (all 4 teams go through to the quarters - play for seeding)

Group A: Samoa, Ireland, Scotland, Jamacia 

Group B: PNG, France, Cook Islands, Greece

Group: Fiji, Lebanon, Wales, Italy

Whilst I see what you are trying to do, your A B and C groups have more than a fair few potential blowouts in them still.

We have a solid 8 or so QF teams. We have 4 good semi final teams. We need to work on the 3rd teams in each group now. Some are closer than others.

[AB90]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Whilst I see what you are trying to do, your A B and C groups have more than a fair few potential blowouts in them still.

We have a solid 8 or so QF teams. We have 4 good semi final teams. We need to work on the 3rd teams in each group now. Some are closer than others.

Oh yeah, still plenty of blow outs but at least less than we have now.

I more do this so we have Aus vs Eng, Eng vs NZ, Aus vs NZ, NZ vs Ton, Ton vs Eng etc on a weekly basis which would potentially take away attention from the blow outs.

[StandOffHalf]

Kangaroos playing GB every two years in the World Cup Final. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[AB90]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Whilst I see what you are trying to do, your A B and C groups have more than a fair few potential blowouts in them still.

We have a solid 8 or so QF teams. We have 4 good semi final teams. We need to work on the 3rd teams in each group now. Some are closer than others.

How about we get rid of one of the groups.

Super Group: Australia, New Zealand, England, Tonga

Group A: Samoa, Lebanon, France, Wales

Group B: PNG, Fiji, Ireland, Cook Islands

Top 2 of each group join the Super group for the quarters.

[headtackle]

World cups in all sports have a few blow outs so probably not as serious an issue as we think

perhaps the answer is leave things as they are with bottom group going into a knock out plate competition 

would give teams at least 1 more competitive game.  Final of the plate could be played as part of main World Cup final pre match entertainment 

The way for all these teams to improve is more international games and tv exposure to inspire their domestic audiences and increase the pool of players 

[jim_57]

I’d like to double down on my assertion that the format is fine but I’d simply be being stubborn not to question if it is the best fit for RL based on the evidence. As long as it stays at 16 I could live with a return of the Super Groups, just have 3 qualify from Pools A & B and 1 each from C & D as in 2013 & 2017 but add 1 more team each to C & D to make it 16.

So loosely based off current rankings you could have something like.

Seed 1 - Australia, NZ, England, Tonga. 
Seed 2 - Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Lebanon. 
Seed 3 - France, Ireland, Wales, Cook Islands. 
Seed 4 - Italy, Scotland, Jamaica, Greece/USA (likely to replace Greece in 2025).

Pools A & B - 1, 1, 2, 3

Pools C & D - 2, 3, 4, 4

A - Australia, England, Lebanon, Wales (3 to quarters). 
B - NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Ireland (3 to quarters). 
C - Fiji, France, Italy, Jamaica (1 to quarters). 
D - PNG, Cook Islands, Scotland, USA (1 to quarters).
 

Hard to argue something like that wouldn’t keep the scores down and the 8 that are good enough will still make the finals. Countries like Jamaica still get their time on the big stage whilst avoiding the top 4.

Edited October 31, 2022 by jim_57

[Just Browny]

No super groups.

If we have to change format, I would go for 4 groups of 3, with a preliminary round so the Jamaicas and Greeces get a game or two at their level and the very weakest are knocked out before they reach the big boys.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, AB90 said:

How about we get rid of one of the groups.

Super Group: Australia, New Zealand, England, Tonga

Group A: Samoa, Lebanon, France, Wales

Group B: PNG, Fiji, Ireland, Cook Islands

Top 2 of each group join the Super group for the quarters.

That's still cutting numbers to fewer than the 14 we had previously.

[StandOffHalf]

2 hours ago, jim_57 said:

I’d like to double down on my assertion that the format is fine but I’d be stubborn to question if it is the best fit for RL based on the evidence. As long as it stays at 16 I could live with a return of the Super Groups, just have 3 qualify from Pools A & B and 1 each from C & D as previous but add 1 more team each to C & D to make it 16.

So loosely based off current rankings you could have something like.

Seed 1 - Australia, NZ, England, Tonga. 
Seed 2 - Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Lebanon. 
Seed 3 - France, Ireland, Wales, Cook Islands. 
Seed 4 - Italy, Scotland, Jamaica, Greece/USA (likely to replace Greece in 2025).

Pools A & B - 1, 1, 2, 3

Pools C & D - 2, 3, 4, 4

A - Australia, England, Lebanon, Wales (3 to quarters). 
B - NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Ireland (3 to quarters). 
C - Fiji, France, Italy, Jamaica (1 to quarters). 
D - PNG, Cook Islands, Scotland, USA (1 to quarters).
 

Hard to argue something like that wouldn’t keep the scores down and the 8 that are good enough will still make the finals. Countries like Jamaica still get their time on the big stage whilst avoiding the top 4.

I quite like that.

[MatthewWoody]

Has the format of the 2025 WC been decided yet? 

[Guest]

One massive royal rumble at Blackpool ballroom. 

[jim_57]

16 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I quite like that.

It’s basically what we had previously but with 4 teams in Pools C & D instead of 3, no “crossover” games.

Like I said I was a supporter of moving to the current format but you have to question if it couldn’t be improved or better suited to our situation moving forward. I am against dropping numbers though.

 

[Midlands hobo]

Roll the European teams excl England into a representative team like GB. To compete at the 4 nations and world cup.

 

Will give players a pathway and hopefully spread the experience to bring on the national sides.

[Just Browny]

40 minutes ago, Midlands hobo said:

Roll the European teams excl England into a representative team like GB. To compete at the 4 nations and world cup.

 

Will give players a pathway and hopefully spread the experience to bring on the national sides.

No, not this.

[Mumby Magic]

Reading alot of posts on here is why RL struggles. How are newer countries going to get in if we cut to 12. For that matter what cut to twelve? The format is fine, blowouts scores happen.  For me it's the qualifying that needs looking at. 2 or 3 games to qualify doesn't seem enough. The draw should be more open in the qualifying. Why can't Italy play Malta, Germany Vs Ireland etc. If they are worried blowouts I'm sure some of the emerging nation can find some experienced heritage players in to begin with. Like this WC and qualifying it's all about exposure and experience.

[Exiled Wiganer]

We have 8 predictably “strong” sides: Oz NZ Eng Fiji PNG France Samoa Tonga - for the next world cups at least so could see Samoa and Tonga at the top table. France missed out but were in a hard group, and Lebanon’s current mix is strong this time round (but there is a big risk that it won’t be in the future…).

Of the others I like what Wales is doing (and bear in mind they could have Knowles and a couple of good NRLers of England hadn’t nabbed him). But after that it’s a stretch to see what we’re trying to achieve for a lot of the rest. Tbh, I would be inclined to ask them, and hear what they make of being thrashed: has it helped or not?? If they’re making progress then stick with what we’re doing, if not work out a plan B (eg 2 super groups and 2 groups from 9 to 16). The people ideally placed to comment are yue countries being thrashed… 
 

[Liverpool Rover]

There is nothing wrong with the format as it is. Blowouts happen in World Cups in other sports and they don’t get the criticism RL does. What isn’t helping is the six again rule, we’ve seen what happens in the NRL when the bottom teams come up against the top teams so when the teams with mainly part time players come up against the full time teams it’s no surprise that there are big blow outs.

[Black Country Wire]

I agree. The old super-group format was certainly looked on as a joke in outside circles plus would increase the number of dead rubbers.

Maybe switch the format round so it's 1st seed v 4th seed in week one rather than week three so the final games will likely have something on them, i.e. 1st seed v 2nd seed with winning the group at stake.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 30/10/2022 at 19:56, GUBRATS said:

We've played 23 games , 24 tomorrow night , and we'll have ended up with the best 8 RL countries 

So the structure will have worked , in essence the WC starts next Friday

Has it "worked"  though GR?

The blow outs and low attendances have damaged the brand. Fact

I'm basing that on unsolicited comments made to me from work colleagues and friends down here....(as their known RL fan )...

I'm talking about more than a dozen different people all saying how poor it has been and looked 

I think starting with 8 teams has to be the way forward. Get to the good stuff and avoid the reputational damage of what has been a rubbish group stage this time 

Frankly if I were offered a yearly four nations to ditch the WC cycle I'd take it right now

Edited November 1, 2022 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[MatthewWoody]

So the likes of Wales and France would never qualify 

[Just Browny]

On 31/10/2022 at 07:46, Just Browny said:

No super groups.

If we have to change format, I would go for 4 groups of 3, with a preliminary round so the Jamaicas and Greeces get a game or two at their level and the very weakest are knocked out before they reach the big boys.

I've tried to flesh this out a bit further based on the 16 teams at this year's event.

10 seeds qualify for main event (8 x QF from 2017 + France and Greece as next two highest ranked in RLIF ratings)

Preliminaries (Week -1)

Game 1 : Italy v Cook Islands

Game 2: Jamaica v Wales

Preliminaries (Week 1)

Game 3: Ireland v Winner Game 1

Game 4: Lebanon v Winner Game 2

Winners join main draw. This round of fixtures is concurrent with the official opening games featuring the 10 seeds, so you are only adding one week to the schedule.